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Dwreck

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#1

How do you stop Webmasters from Reffering themselves?

08-31-2005, 01:32 PM

How do you stop Webmasters from Reffering themselves?

I was wondering how you go about to stop webmasters sighing up for two accounts. One they sent small amounta of traffic too and then they refer themselves and send the majority of traffic to the second. I guess the 15% can mean big money for some people.

Not really a big deal but I saw that today and I was wondering what methods do you have in place?

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#2

08-31-2005, 01:34 PM

do they have the same tax id?
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#3

08-31-2005, 01:34 PM

Allow only one account per person, address.

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08-31-2005, 01:35 PM

You catch them when its payment time.
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#5

08-31-2005, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by BV

do they have the same tax id?

only Americans would have a tax id... that eliminates one country but there's a few other countries out there that people might be living in.

Derek, we've caught a few trying to pull that as well. You just gotta keep a close eye on these things (address, emails, other similarities)... which can get trickier and trickier the more you grow.

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#6

08-31-2005, 01:38 PM

depends, is it better to loose only 15% comparing to the whole source?

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#7

08-31-2005, 01:40 PM

Kill there old acc, the one that's getting the referral money.

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#8

08-31-2005, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by Dwreck

How do you stop Webmasters from Reffering themselves?

I was wondering how you go about to stop webmasters sighing up for two accounts. One they sent small amounta of traffic too and then they refer themselves and send the majority of traffic to the second. I guess the 15% can mean big money for some people.

Not really a big deal but I saw that today and I was wondering what methods do you have in place?

Neat idea! Well not really. What is harder is when a small group get together to play games.
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#9

08-31-2005, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by Dwreck

How do you stop Webmasters from Reffering themselves?

I was wondering how you go about to stop webmasters sighing up for two accounts. One they sent small amounta of traffic too and then they refer themselves and send the majority of traffic to the second. I guess the 15% can mean big money for some people.

Not really a big deal but I saw that today and I was wondering what methods do you have in place?

There is no way to stop webmasters. As mentioned, you need to look for similarities among the accounts, but that certainly isnt going to work everytime. Make sure to state clearly in your TOS that if webmasters refer themselves, their accounts will be terminated. I remember, back in the day, everyone thought they were so smart because they would signup under themselves to clickcash and make bling bling. Little did they know clickcash had it's own "adjustment" methods of dealing with that

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#10

08-31-2005, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by NichePay - StuartD

only Americans would have a tax id... that eliminates one country but there's a few other countries out there that people might be living in.

Derek, we've caught a few trying to pull that as well. You just gotta keep a close eye on these things (address, emails, other similarities)... which can get trickier and trickier the more you grow.

hmmm I refer my brother sometimes and we use the same po box....same hosting and same register....
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#11

08-31-2005, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by Oracle Porn

hmmm I refer my brother sometimes and we use the same po box....same hosting and same register....

I got my girlfriend into the webmaster biz and she uses my domains sometimes. I have referred her to a few programs. I don't feel it's the same thing though.

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#12

08-31-2005, 01:56 PM

I sometimes use several accounts for tracking purposes. I never considered whether I was getting a referral fee from my other accounts.
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#13

08-31-2005, 02:02 PM

Hand approve accounts is one way. Long way to do it, but it will stop it.

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#14

08-31-2005, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by AmateurFlix

I sometimes use several accounts for tracking purposes. I never considered whether I was getting a referral fee from my other accounts.

That's where campaigns come in handy, I wish more programs implemented that.

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#15

08-31-2005, 02:05 PM

yep.. hand approving accounts. and paying very close attention to some of the details that some people already listed here.
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#16

08-31-2005, 02:07 PM

I have a question for you, If a signup is worth your normal payout to one person and a 15% override to a referring webmaster, what difference does it make if it all goes to the same webmaster? It's not like it's hard to sneak an account in on those programs that are concerned anyhow. I think I'd focus on something more important.
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#17

08-31-2005, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by Ninja Scripts

I have a question for you, If a signup is worth your normal payout to one person and a 15% override to a referring webmaster, what difference does it make if it all goes to the same webmaster? It's not like it's hard to sneak an account in on those programs that are concerned anyhow. I think I'd focus on something more important.

It's a huge difference, you either pay out anywhere from $30-40/signup you add 15% that's $34.50-46.

Programs run on a small profit margin, and hope for large volume and rebills.

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#18

08-31-2005, 02:13 PM

What programs pay 15% for reffers? Sign me up!

If those programs are any good I would love to push them on http://www.affiliatesrus.com.

Let's see some links!

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#19

08-31-2005, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by kristin

It's a huge difference, you either pay out anywhere from $30-40/signup you add 15% that's $34.50-46.

Programs run on a small profit margin, and hope for large volume and rebills.

Ummm hello!? If a webmaster signs up under someone elses code instead of their own it costs the program the exact same thing.
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#20

08-31-2005, 02:17 PM

you say that like 15% isnt shit

fuck that. 15% is fucking huge. and if you are going to offer someone else that cash if they refer me.. i refered myself.. why am i not intitled to that 15%
besides.. is my traffic thats making the sales anyways right?

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#21

08-31-2005, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by Ninja Scripts

Ummm hello!? If a webmaster signs up under someone elses code instead of their own it costs the program the exact same thing.

Yeah a legit signup under someone else ... I'm not gonna pay someone an extra $4.50-$6 if I don't have to. I have a webmaster that does great job referring other webmasters, I have no problem paying him. I do have a problem paying someone that would sign up for my program if no one referred them and they are trying to skim more money off of us.

It's the principle of the matter. If I wanted to pay $34.50-$46 a join, I would. But the point of referring webmasters is to get more people promoting the program, not double one that is already active.

Last edited by kristin; 08-31-2005, 02:18 PM.

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#22

08-31-2005, 02:18 PM

shoot them>?
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#23

08-31-2005, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by kristin

Yeah a legit signup under someone else ... I'm not gonna pay someone an extra $4.50-$6 if I don't have to. I have a webmaster that does great job referring other webmasters, I have no problem paying him. I do have a problem paying someone that would sign up for my program if no one referred them and they are trying to skim more money off of us.

It's the principle of the matter. If I wanted to pay $34.50-$46 a join, I would. But the point of referring webmasters is to get more, not double one that is already active.

I don't buy it. You can't list $34.50 to $46 per signup because then the 15% override would be that much more. So it's ok for a webmaster to post on GFY "Hey I want to signup to X.com give me a link code" but not ok for a webmaster to get it himself? It's 100% sponsors trying to pad their bottom line.

Now, I don't sign up under my own affiliate codes but if I wanted to you would never know it. That being said, I make my own creatives, do my own footwork, and rarely if ever talk to support. If a sponsor got pissy because I kept my referral % myself while spending thousands of dollars providing everything free under the sun to other webmasters I would just pull my traffic.
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#24

08-31-2005, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by suesheboy

What programs pay 15% for reffers? Sign me up!

If those programs are any good I would love to push them on http://www.affiliatesrus.com.

Let's see some links!

WildWestCash pays 15%. They've got some nice sites too.
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#25

08-31-2005, 02:22 PM

Do reports when your paychecks are about to go out to see who are the biggest referral checks, then backtrack to check those people aren't signing themselves up.

Check for duplicate payto/tax information and check if the accounts are referring each other.

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#26

08-31-2005, 02:23 PM

Personally, I won't sign up under anyone's referral code solely because it gives you an additional point to your argument when negotiating for higher payouts.

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#27

08-31-2005, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by Rep

Personally, I won't sign up under anyone's referral code solely because it gives you an additional point to your argument when negotiating for higher payouts.

Exactly, when you wouldn't have to argue at all if you just referred yourself. Sponsors worrying about this is just petty.
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#28

08-31-2005, 02:26 PM

nice ideas here..

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#29

08-31-2005, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by Ninja Scripts

I don't buy it. You can't list $34.50 to $46 per signup because then the 15% override would be that much more. So it's ok for a webmaster to post on GFY "Hey I want to signup to X.com give me a link code" but not ok for a webmaster to get it himself? It's 100% sponsors trying to pad their bottom line.

But now you have two people promoting your program, not one.

You send traffic to XYZ company and get 10 joins a day.
10*$30/join = 300
$300*1.15 = $345

Now if you refer someone else and they send 10 joins a day, I still have your $300 and now someone else's $300 and have to pay the referral. I'm now paying $645, but have twice as many joins.

The bottom line is just because you refer yourself doesn't mean you'll twice as many joins. If you refer someone else, they'll send joins.

Yes, you may find a way around it and companies won't know, but I know of larger companies that shut down accounts or tell webmasters when they find out they can't do it.

It truly cuts into the profit margin, paying $30-40/join already hurts bad enough.

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#30

08-31-2005, 02:29 PM

Thanks for the great ideas and Kristin I love how you threw you 2 cents in. Killer!

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#31

08-31-2005, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by kristin

But now you have two people promoting your program, not one.

You send traffic to XYZ company and get 10 joins a day.
10*$30/join = 300
$300*1.15 = $345

Now if you refer someone else and they send 10 joins a day, I still have your $300 and now someone else's $300 and have to pay the referral. I'm now paying $645, but have twice as many joins.

The bottom line is just because you refer yourself doesn't mean you'll twice as many joins. If you refer someone else, they'll send joins.

Yes, you may find a way around it and companies won't know, but I know of larger companies that shut down accounts or tell webmasters when they find out they can't do it.

It truly cuts into the profit margin, paying $30-40/join already hurts bad enough.

You act as if the referral whores running around here send actual traffic. You aren't going to get double the sales if they refer me because I'm going to send more sales than they do 99.9% of the time.

And on that note by me not using their referral code will the ones actively promoting suddenly stop sending traffic? Nope. You just want those loose webmasters signed up with no referrals at all. Like I said, 100% bottom line. How much do all the promo tools you offer every noob in the world cut into your bottom line? What about all the time on ICQ explaining to morons how to insert a link code correctly?
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#32

08-31-2005, 02:34 PM

It's hard to stamp that out. It affects the bottom line more than most people know.

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#33

08-31-2005, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by Pornwolf

It's hard to stamp that out. It affects the bottom line more than most people know.

Everything affects the bottom line. Bitching about your webmasters who are actually sending sales is pretty damn pathetic.
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#34

08-31-2005, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by Ninja Scripts

Ummm hello!? If a webmaster signs up under someone elses code instead of their own it costs the program the exact same thing.

I understand your thinking but the fact is very few webmasters are referred.
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#35

08-31-2005, 02:38 PM

But now you have two people promoting your program, not one.

You do bring up good points from a sponsor's look on things, realistically though I think your numbers are a little too optimistic. I don't think that one person referring another person will result in twice as many joins - nor do I believe that every person who refers webmasters actively promotes the program themselves. It may just have a good percentage (like webcamcash apparently) of referral payout.

It truly cuts into the profit margin, paying $30-40/join already hurts bad enough.

I don't know that it truely cuts into the profit margin, perhaps if every single webmaster did it within the program it would. I think affiliates large enough to truely cut into the profit margin are pushing enough volume to negotiate higher payouts anyway.

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#36

08-31-2005, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by slapass

I understand your thinking but the fact is very few webmasters are referred.

Maybe. But the guy that would bother to sign up under his own code would just make a friend join and sign up under them as they obviously know about the payouts.
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#37

08-31-2005, 02:40 PM

Dwreck can you cross refrence your daily signups?

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#38

08-31-2005, 02:41 PM

wow, thats kind of low.

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#39

08-31-2005, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by Ninja Scripts

Everything affects the bottom line. Bitching about your webmasters who are actually sending sales is pretty damn pathetic.

I don't think they're bitching about webmasters sending sales, at least that's not the original intent of the thread imho. They're bitching about webmasters trying to be shady.

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#40

08-31-2005, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by Ninja Scripts

You act as if the referral whores running around here send actual traffic. You aren't going to get double the sales if they refer me because I'm going to send more sales than they do 99.9% of the time.

And on that note by me not using their referral code will the ones actively promoting suddenly stop sending traffic? Nope. You just want those loose webmasters signed up with no referrals at all. Like I said, 100% bottom line. How much do all the promo tools you offer every noob in the world cut into your bottom line? What about all the time on ICQ explaining to morons how to insert a link code correctly?

Promo tools are regardless, it's not the point about the promo tools. You may not use them, but webmasters large and small do use them. We have to offer them for noobs and experienced webmasters. Hell, more experienced webmasters tend to be worse sometimes, they want everything ... link codes ICQ'ed or emailed to them, blah, blah, blah. You just happen to be one of the good ones that will do everything on your own. We now offer incentives for webmasters who do their own footwork. We buy hosted galleries...$5/per approved gallery and we appreciate those who submit and they appreciate the extra money.

So little things like this matter, but taking an additional $15% is just not right. You aren't sending more joins and by someone else referring may not equate to more joins, but it has a better chance than referring yourself.

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#41

08-31-2005, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by Rep

You do bring up good points from a sponsor's look on things, realistically though I think your numbers are a little too optimistic. I don't think that one person referring another person will result in twice as many joins - nor do I believe that every person who refers webmasters actively promotes the program themselves. It may just have a good percentage (like webcamcash apparently) of referral payout.

I had originally written hypothetical numbers here ... it was more for just ease of math.

Hell, if it's 1 join or 10, it's still more than I would have gotten that day without the referral. And yes, that's assuming that the other person would send traffic, but we have to think optimistically. The person signed up for the program under someone else and they deserve the cash, now the question should remain, would they have signed up even if they weren't referred?

If the answer is no, then there ... the referral is worth it.

If the answer is yes, then fine, cut your losses.

And if they would have signed up without a referral, then why should I pay them more with them referring themselves?

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#42

08-31-2005, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by brand0n

you say that like 15% isnt shit

fuck that. 15% is fucking huge. and if you are going to offer someone else that cash if they refer me.. i refered myself.. why am i not intitled to that 15%
besides.. is my traffic thats making the sales anyways right?

There are two main reasons why one can not refer themself to a program.

First, there is no such thing as "referring oneself". That is an oxymoron.

Secondly, when you refer yourself, it is a gester of bad faith. Sponsor programs do not have referral links so that their webmasters can make an extra 15% off their own signups, else they would just payout 65% instead of 50/50.

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#43

08-31-2005, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by kristin

I had originally written hypothetical numbers here ... it was more for just ease of math.

It's completely understandable I was just pointing out that there were other instances that occur more frequently ;)

Hell, if it's 1 join or 10, it's still more than I would have gotten that day without the referral. And yes, that's assuming that the other person would send traffic, but we have to think optimistically.

Agreed

The person signed up for the program under someone else and they deserve the cash, now the question should remain, would they have signed up even if they weren't referred?

Agreed

If the answer is no, then there ... the referral is worth it.
If the answer is yes, then fine, cut your losses.

Agreed again, however, I see the point that NinjaScripts was trying to make. Webmasters post frequently threads titled "im signing up to bangbros someone spam me with a ref" but I've never seen a program post in a thread like that stating they'd like to remove the credit for referral. Don't get me wrong, I do not believe in signing up under your own referral to gain more revenue - I think it's extremely shady for a webmaster to do.

And if they would have signed up without a referral, then why should I pay them more with them referring themselves?

You really shouldn't be forced to because people shouldn't be signing up through thier own referral codes ;) - but I can tell you (as I stated before) I do not sign up under referral code specifically for the reason that it gives me another point in my argument when negotiating for higher payouts.

If an affiliate is doing good volume in your program would you raise their payout to meet or match the percentage that would be paid out to their referrer?

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#44

08-31-2005, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by Ninja Scripts

Sponsors worrying about this is just petty.

You dont run an adult paysite affiliate program, do you? Well you're arguing with Kristin, someone who does. IMO, you have no idea what you're talking about.

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#45

08-31-2005, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by Rep

I do not sign up under referral code specifically for the reason that it gives me another point in my argument when negotiating for higher payouts.

If an affiliate is doing good volume in your program would you raise their payout to meet or match the percentage that would be paid out to their referrer?

I avoid referral codes too. Also I want the program to have more money in case it needs to pay me. Why force the extra % of overhead on a new partner?
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#46

08-31-2005, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by Rep

If an affiliate is doing good volume in your program would you raise their payout to meet or match the percentage that would be paid out to their referrer?

I have no problem negotiating higher payouts (referer or not) if the right amount of traffic is sent. I'd pay the referrer and raise payouts if the traffic was good.

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#47

08-31-2005, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by slapass

Also I want the program to have more money in case it needs to pay me.

This made me laugh ...

If the program can't pay you, then they have more to worry about than referrals. ; )

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#48

08-31-2005, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by SomeCreep

You dont run an adult paysite affiliate program, do you? Well you're arguing with Kristin, someone who does. IMO, you have no idea what you're talking about.

You have no idea what I do. As far as you comments in the other post no they wouldn't advertise higher payouts instead because then their referral commissions would be higher also. That would be a never ending loop.

I'll tell you one thing I do, it's send signups to programs without bothering them every 5 minutes and asking for a blowjob to go with my free galleries. Should I pull up the 80000 threads you've posted in when someone asks for an affiliate code? What about the ones where someone says they'll be signing up for X sponsor and you say "as long as your signing up use this link".

You didn't make those webmasters sign up, you just spammed your link code after they had already made up their mind. So why the hell should you get the extra % for NOTHING when I'm the one sending sales. I'd say what you do is a lot worse.
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#49

08-31-2005, 03:08 PM

And my apologies to Derek, this thread has gone off track ... the question wasn't whether it was right or not, it was how to stop it.

So back to my original post thought, you could do it by hand D.

Vacares rules.

"Usually only fat guys have the kind of knowledge and ability that Kristin has."
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SomeCreep

:glugglug

Join Date: Mar 2003

Posts: 26118
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#50

08-31-2005, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by Ninja Scripts

Should I pull up the 80000 threads you've posted in when someone asks for an affiliate code? What about the ones where someone says they'll be signing up for X sponsor and you say "as long as your signing up use this link".

You didn't make those webmasters sign up, you just spammed your link code after they had already made up their mind. So why the hell should you get the extra % for NOTHING when I'm the one sending sales. I'd say what you do is a lot worse.

You're so dumb, I'm only going to repsond to this by saying you're dumb.

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