do you put faith into the "we cant shave we use NATS"
 

see my pole

of course not. That Q must be for the noobs...

i shave my head and my balls.

You either trust a sponsor or you don't.

Anyone can shave if they realy want to. If I don't trust a sponsor I won't use them!!

Your sig :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh


I could be a rent-a-troll for sure.

im a noob....

First no was me.

"We can't shave we use NATS" would be correct. I'm not saying "people" who use NATS can't shave. But you can't just remove a webmaster ID from the members table and shave.. NATS puts the ID into many places, hidden away in a few locations.. (Login ID?s, Account Name & Webmaster ID) It?s packed with ways to protect the system. Someone with a damn good coder could build in a shaver, yes.. But MOST NATS owners don't have coders or coders good enough to build a shaver. If they did they would have our own damn software.

99% of the NATS owners can't figure out how to use NATS past the base install, why would anyone think they have the knowledge to build in a shaver?

With that, NATS and no other webmaster has offered me a shaver. Not that I have asked for one, but I haven't even heard rumors of a shaver.

It's been mulled over here before with several ways that a dis-honest program can do it, but it comes down to wether or not a webmaster/affiliate trusts a sponsor or not. No matter what software is used to run a program's backend, the trust had to be there to dispell any beliefs a sponsor would do such a thing.

Looks like your pretty familiar with nats and the inner workings..

Even if a sponsor using NATS would find a way to shave, NATS would kick him out of their system, that's for sure :)

Past building a coded shaver into NATS, which would be very hard to do..

Yes, you could rip webmaster ID's at any point, yes you could drop the ID on the join pages or post.. BUT.. ""ALL"" that crap is easy to spot. We pass the ID's into the processors; you can look and see if your ID is attached right at the billing join page.

NATS doesn't have a way to "detect" if a webmaster on an account signs up under his own account, go signup, do it once a month, you can ask the owner for permission if you want but they have no way to stop your account from doing it.. Do a few tests on a few cards, make sure shit shows up on your account.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

totally

:pimp

I'm going to buy TheDoc a razor for Christmas. Is Norelco fine?

I really don't pay much attention to "shaving". If I make money with a sponsor, I send traffic. If I don't make money, I don't send traffic. Its really that simple for me.

Aye, I know it pretty well.. Not as good as Nathan and Boris, but well enough.. I get asked on how to do stuff and where stuff is in NATS all the time..

If I saw someone shaving, caught someone shaving, or if I heard rumors of a shaver.. You can damn well bet I wouldn't stand for it.. I would have no issues with blasting a scamming program.

That's how it should be done.. Plenty of honest people I don't think shave but I can't convert.. so I just move on. Plenty of people I could convert but can't convert now.. Again, I just move on..


And I don't use razors.. I like clippers :)

It would be difficult but very possible. Like said already, trust the company, not the software.

It's kind of funny, I've received ICQs from anonymous people asking me if I could incorporate the shaving ability. I couldn't share the names if I wanted to, they seemed like new accounts with made up names haha.

I challenge you to a duel...

a simple tag inserted on a timer on the join pages. Maybe a few minutes out of each day on a schedule <img src=gif.gif onload="window.open('http://www.samesite.com/?defaultnatscode','_top')"> done and done, shave implemented. Very little experience required to pull it off, if anyone noticed it would only be the one split second and when they retried it , it would work fine.If anyone else tried it , it would work fine also.

The only true test is to actually try it constantly ( test signups )and have your sponsor ok with that .

This example is just one way , but tons of others have been mentioned and would work.

and on nats this wouldn't be very hard as the nats affil code changes for every sponsors niche /promotion so you might have to keep track of dozens of affil codes to monitor in order to know if your code is swapped, that has to be the most annoying part ( and i do realise you can use uncoded affil links , but those aren't offered by default )

Smokey you're so low tech.

SmokeyTheBear, you are wrong, you can?t just replace the webmaster ID on the join page, it won?t work. NATS pulls cookies by default. So they would have to reset the NATS cookie, which they can?t do. NATS also will break on the join page if the program ID and SITE ID don't match correctly. The system tracks the ID, hard links are only used as a failsafe.

I have seen many affiliate program backends where the account reps woud even tell you how to shave. Who would want to deal with companies like that? NATS does not have the options built in to do it. I know I would not use any program that had these options. There is no secret passcode to get in and change the coding of NATS. Of course if you wanted to try and hack the code, maybe you could find a way. Maybe fris is for hire? So Stop hating on NATS!

Your not replacing anything , your closing the previous join window and opening the same window but with a different nats code. Once the new window is opened with the new nats code the cookie is replaced with a new cookie. ( as far as i know ) if not then if i send traffic to a nats sponsor and they already have a nats cookie for that sponsor i'm not getting credit , and this would be much worse..

I saw something like this take place already on a nats sponsor so i know it to be how it works ( at least to the visible eye ) When realitycash had a few problems on the fhg's the nats codes were different on the same page.

The cookie isn't set on the join page, or reset.. They would have rebuild the linking code and send back to the site for the cookie to change.

As for Realitycash, and fhg's, fhg's don't set cookies, the cookie is set after they click a link from the gallery. Soooo... If the ID was incorrect at the gallery it would come to the site with the wrong ID. This is part of an issue with the sponsor, not nats.. Or you could look at as NATS not having a solid way to track FHG's better, rather no system at all currently.

the real reason you cant shave is because your ratios will suck if you start shaving sales. why anyone would want to is beyond me when there are hundreds of other affiliate programs competing for your traffic.

if you really wanted though im sure you could do something with triggers thats more effective than the js suggestions previously mentioned.

If I have access to the SQL database, I can shave.

End of story.

Sorry you are incorrect.. The post happens and the join is reported through software which posts to a few tables with a few different ID's / member info attached. Every table, from join page hits, join reports, ip reports, etc would have to be changed. Once you modify one set of data and it doesn't match up with other data NATS breaks, once NATS breaks you have to have them fix it.. Then your ass is busted.

Using Nats seems like a perfet way to shave. Install the software, modify some shit, and tell everyone that you don't shave whilst skimming 40% plus.

ok heres a better example

http://gfy.webspacemania.com/nats

the normal girlshuntinggirls site is in a frame so this example is pretty close.

Assuming a user doesn't have a cookie yet and clicks a link to girlshuntinggirls.. ( example above)

The NATS code is MTEyNjo1OjU

Using basically the method i outlined above the page quickly turns into a different nats code http://ww2.girlshuntinggirls.com/track/MjgxMDo1OjU/

The code switching would be done on the ghg frame itself ( not on the join page )

Who's code do you see and who do you think would get credit ?

but i mean really it isnt even an argument ( or shouldnt be ) a sponsor can simply 404 all their fhg's to a list of hardcoded fhg's on a cronjob for 30 seconds every hour :)

If the question is Can a nats sponsor shave the answer as anyone should know is yes. Does nats program in a shave or leave holes open with the intention of sponsors shaving ( the important fact here ). NO

Wow 20 posts.. Another fake nick owner being a fag.

Yes i was pointing out a nobrainer simple example just to show that any shmoe could do it with simple html , and most likely not get caught.

if you wanted to be clever theres hundreds of better schemes you could pull ( not mentioned here for obvious reasons )

20 posts doesn't automatically equal fake nick, you stupid fuck.

Are you trying to say that there is absolutely NO truth to my previous post?

100000% no truth.. You can't modify any code in NATS and SQL data is split up and keyed together so it can be changed. At that, most don't even have access to the database..

I do agree that people could figure out a way, from 404ing galleries, rebuild codes, repop pages, flip IDs at galleries, etc.. But.. that kind of crap will get your ass called out. Someone will notice it. Other sponsors have been called out for crap like that in the past.. Webmasters check for that crap..

If anything, webmasters should check more often, not to see if they are getting shaved, but to make sure us program owners don't make mistakes.

exactly why my point about nats having to have so many different codes in place.

Its really easy when i can look for MYIDCODE not 100 different codes for each sponsor.

Infact its a real downer when im moving stuff around having to check back in for the nats code instead of just going to the site copying the link and swapping in my code.

Hmmm ... that gives me some ideas for some anti-shave measures for my setup ... so when I distribute it, it will do its best to prevent shaving ...

nah i could build one that would be hard as crap to catch , and even if it did , it would only happen once :) ( designer error, program error etc excuse excuse we have all heard before , easily explained away .)

I'm not going to go into any details as i dont want to give anyone any ideas, but , simple fact is having nats or executive stats or any other affil program manager isn't going to make shaving impossible.

That doesn't mean people can't have "gut" feelings. I don't seem to trust to many sponsors that woud use " we use nats we can't shave" as a slogan , it reeks of " we are shaving but you can't figure it out or don't have the time to ,or we think your so stupid you wont know any better"

people should instead focus on what nats has to offer , and it has some great tools/features, and what nats is lacking ( very few things )

Not trying to be a dick (and I don't use nats, or any other affiliate program).. but bear with me.

It's still just a data transformation, and once you figured out how to do it, you could do it the same way every time. It might not be easy, but it's sure as hell possible.

I'm not saying this as a negative thing for NATS at all... it's just a fact of SQL databases... I'm sure the NATS guys would admit the same thing. (as would every other affiliate program that uses SQL).

The only way any software could pull it off would be either some encrypted database, or by reporting back something like MD5 data to a remote server not maintained by the site.

eheh ya i wasnt looking to bust your balls, just had to throw that in to be a smart ass ;)

my point was really the first part of my post that a sponsor has to really have balls to shave sales in such a competitive market. we're all agreed that if you really want to shave you can.. "where theres a will theres a way"