Homosexuality & Causes - any ideas ?
 

SPANNOW's thread made me want to post this question, in all seriousness:

What makes a person homosexual / gay / lesbian ?

There's plenty of characters on GFY with their sly / outlandish / stupid opinions, but there's also a ton of well educated posters with solid responses and I'd like to hear them all.

Is it biological, in that a gene or chromosome is switched on for a dude to want to suck cock? Is it something that happened to the mother while the baby was in the womb for a chick to not want dick? Nurturing vs./and environment causes for some dudes to reject the lovely lure of vagina or cause some super hot women to not want to partake in the thrusting of penis?

Anyway. Just thought I'd ask.

Thanks kids, for playing.

i don't think you can say its either 100% genetic or 100% learned in ALL cases.

:2 cents:

I say nature, not nurture.

i also think nature, not nurture.

I'm torn. Back in my parent's day you were shunned for "coming out of the closet" and homosexuals often suppressed their feelings to not be ostracized. When I was in high school (~13 years ago), it seemed like a "fad" to be gay or bi-sexual. Now I'm just wondering what's the deal. Are there animal species that exhibit homosexual behavior - granted, for example, a male dog might pretty much fuck anything, but where does true homosexuality stem from, is what I wanted to know. How are certain beings in a species attracted to a similar sex in that same species that will never provide for procreation?

"Not that there's anything wrong with it." Again, just wondering.

*shrug*

Oh yea, by the sexually ambiguous nature of my nick, I'm a dude. So all those dudes aroused by my savage posting skills, need not apply. :)

I remember watching a documentary years ago that said that after WW2 there were alot of gay (male) children born in London. They figured the cause was the blitz of rockets the Germans were shooting over. Everyone was stressed out. The fetus starts out female and then the mother's body produces testosterone which slowly makes the fetus male. During hightened levels of stress, the body stops producing these hormones. The assumption was the physical appearance of the fetus was now male, but internally it was still partially female, specifically in the brain.

That would be the "nature" part, but the nurture would be social aspects. I think the hormonal development would make a person attracted to the same sex, but then social roles would either help or hinder that. Hindering would just drive the person "into th closet" so to speak, probably adding alot of confusion as to why they're not attracted to the opposite sex.

I remember reading or hearing about that same theory about women in London during WWII. That theory tries to explain homosexuality as being physiological and not psychological.

It's silly to think it's "either or". I'm pretty positive that it has it's core in biology. But at the same time there are also social issues influencing some people's sexuality as well. It's both.. in some people it's purely nature.. in some people it's purely nurture.. in some people it's both.

Plenty. Obviously giraffes and bonobo's are the famous examples.. but sheep and everything else too.

I tis the love of jesus and desire to have more than his flesh and blood. :)

Yea, I dig on eating the "still quivering flesh" of bodies too.

To each his own, I guess.

Believe me, its 100% genetic, or something that I have no decision in or control over.

I have no idea why im gay. Parents are both straight and had blue collar jobs. My uncles were construction workers, but for some reason when I was younger and me and my friends would look at dirty mags Id always be looking at the guys.
Id comment on how hot the girls are so they wouldn't suspect, but id be looking at the guys.

I dont know why I'm gay. When I look at a woman I might as well be looking at a brick wall. I think Pam Anderson is sexy but I dont get a boner for her.
Itsd like a straight person looking at another guy. There's nothing there that's exciting to you about it. Thats the way it is with me and a woman.

Its not politically correct to say this but fuck it, I definetely didn't want this because I had very little friends growing up. I was in the closet and tried to cover it up but people knew there was something different about me.
I ate lunch by myself in high school for 4 years. Being gay was a fucking nightmare.
I didnt like hiding from family and coworkers. I still have dreams about school. It was torture.

And people think I chose this? Theyre idiots.

Always dodging questions about having a girlfriend and when am I going to get married, etc etc.
I fucking hated going to work and getting cornered with fucking god damn questions about my personal life. I had no rapport with coworkers.

I finally met one girl at work who was from nyc and she asked me and i said yes and then she was nice but she was TOO nice, and I felt like a retard, like i was some kind of puppy to her. It was just dumb.

I grew up catholic so I have a shitload of guilt around that.

I could try to be straight but the feelings arent there. Like a bald guy wearing a toupee, its not real and not genuine, its just a lie.

So trust me, being gay isnt all about parties and sucking cock and parades and manicures and having good hair.
There can be a lot of guilt and baggage and shit with it too.

i knew a girl that was molested by her father as were all her sisters. she was incapable of having relationships or even being intimate with men and preferred woman.

on the other hand... it usually pretty clear at around 10-15yrs old which of the boys is going to grow up to be an interior designer.

Interior design is also bathrooms & kitchen design. Interior decorating is what you're thinking of :)

I was looking at going back to school for Interior Design (already have a degree in Design). The money is good, especially in South Florida where every yin-yang has millions to redo their houses.

Interesting, as this is what I've heard many times before in many different ways - all meaning the same thing: You were "born" that way.

I wouldn't say it's genetic as that would mean it would pass to various generations, though I'm no geneticist, so that postulate could be wrong.

However, what you posted could be by what smitty2049 posted in regard to certain factors effecting the fetus during initial growth - external events biologically affected the mother during pregnancy, thus effecting the fetus. (excuse my misuse of "affect" and "effect" as I'm still confused by those two words).

Whatever the case man - fuck the past and just live as a good human in the present as you plan your paths into the future.

I thank you for your post. :)

Too much time with a pacifer?




Okay, was just a guess ....

pacifier is equivalent to sucking on nipples, that doesn't make you gay.

the whole "being born with it" is a touchy subject anyway.

I think it's genetic. But then people would argue that it's a "birth defect".

Relgious zealots want it to be "psychological" so that they can crusade to "cure" you (yeah right).

Whatever the case, I would think that the adult webmaster world would be one of the most liberal groups, because of the content we deal with. Hell, I'm straight, but one of my sites is a gay tgp site. Not my thing, but I know it's someone's.

The general consensus among us would be "be yourself, post porn and make money!"

Well since I've seen bulls trying to mount other bulls I would have to say it's most likely genetic (actually homosexuality has been seen in most higher order mammals - and don't ask me for links, fuck off and look it up for yourself). I can't really see someone saying 'hey, I want to be the target of discrimination and hate crimes' or 'hey, I want to have fewer rights than everyone else in a society that's supposed to protect everyone under the same constitution'.

I'm straight and I'm quite sure no one taught me how to get a boner looking at a naked girl. I suppose the nurture part of the nature/nurture arguement comes from men not knowing how to react to the fact that two guys want to go at it. It's understandable since sexuality seems to be hardwired and anything different is met with fear. I say 'understandable', but definitely not reasonable. :2 cents:

This was both interesting and fun to read.

Society and the metros are to blame
+ dominant female side of the family

shut up queer!











(joke)

probably genetic in most cases and in some cases, perhaps the environment

Wont be long before the government blames that on porn as well.

One of my relatives was in a very serious lesbian relationship for a good number of years after several bad long term relationships with men.
There are a lot of "nurture" examples stemming from bad experiences.

But I think the majority are probably genetic. I too heard about this supposedly gay "fad" however long ago.. well I can tell you it has never been fucking cool to be gay unless you totally surround yourself with likeminded people lol... Who the hell would choose the daily taunting and ostracising otherwise. I think the gay "fad" thing is a bit of a red herring, they probably still say it today.. kids going gay to be cool as a scare tactic to a gay presence in the media... thats pretty fucking out of touch. All you have to remember is your highschool days.. the chick that had sex too early was a slut.. that was bad enough... but sucking cock? oh man. yeah sooo cool, the coolest kids in school lol.

prison?..

that sounds about right. i believe there will always be people drawn to homosexuality through differening mental problems or childhood expieriences, but also people legitamately born gay. there have been some interesting discoveries in the animal kingdom lately relating to that. scientists have found a number of species that form homosexual pairings, from penguins to monkeys. so it seems that in a certain percentage of any population of highly social animals there will be homosexuality.

Interesting discussion.

I am not sure if it's a nature thing myself. Some of the women I've talked to who are now gay/bi have some sort of childhood experience that has kinda shaped them to how they are. Most have openly admitted that is prolly one of the reasons. Overbearing father, or rape somewhere, abuse, etc. I am not staying it applies to ALL, just some of what I've noticed in my life, and experience.

I think it falls under the same nurture, just like fetishes. I have had a foot fetish as long as I can remember, first memory was as a 3 year old in a drive way tickling a friend of the family's feet. No, I was not popping boners at 3, but all through my adolence I was crawling under tables, and tickling or massaging feet until I hit puberty.

So somehow, somewhere I became programmed for the foot fetish. I do not believe I was born with it, and obviously, if I had a choice in the matter, I am not sure a fetish for the foot would have made my top 3, although it has it's advantages, and I do not worry so much about it at 32 as I did when I was 14 popping boners to women's feet.


:pimp

Anyone that thinks it's a purely a choice should have to experience a year in highschool as a homosexual. It's throughout the animal kingdom essentially proving it to be a biological norm. It's hard to go against that sort of evidence unless you really want to think it's choice because of some underlying need to think it's not normal or it's ok to villify them because they made a decision and they need to be responsible for it. Christians have a massive stake in disproving it as in their minds it's basically saying god fucks up in his creation and to a lot of people it destroys several tenets of established bible teaching... essentially "It can't be a sin if god made you that way." Which is why they find it impossible to accept.. One day.. as with Gallileo things will change. But even irrefutable proof it's genetic won't stop the social stigma and harrassment. Sad.

One of the biggest questions for parents and spouses is, ?Is this my fault?? This gets down to the root issue of who is responsible for my gay loved one?s struggles with his or her sexuality. There are three possible answers:

Answer #1 - God is responsible. This condition is genetic ? so God caused it, or at least, allowed it to occur. Blame God! It?s His fault. (I'm off the hook.) Some parents have actually thrown out their previous biblical convictions that homosexuality is sin. It?s genetic, so my child had no other option. ?I guess the Bible doesn?t mean what I used to think it meant about this subject.? This is a false solution.

Answer #2 - The gay person is responsible. It?s their choice. It?s my loved one's fault. (I'm off the hook.) Again, this is an erroneous solution. People do not consciously choose to be gay, in the vast majority of cases. They become aware of homosexual feelings, often at puberty, just as you became aware of heterosexual desires and attractions. It infuriates gays and lesbians when you tell them, ?You chose this. Now stop it!?

Answer #3 - Homosexuality is the result of a combination of multiple factors, and I may have contributed in some way to my loved one?s struggles in this area. To find answers, we must be willing to search for the truth, no matter where that search takes us. Are you willing to ?walk in the truth,? no matter what answers you find? Are you committed to the truth? Or, are you happy with false solutions because they are easier? They take away the guilt (or do they?). They ?fix? the problem ? at least, for now.

Geee for me its choice as a transsexual.......

I LOVE to take highly dangerous drugs that can kill me from a range of factors and almost have done a few times. I love the fear of increasing my risk of cancer, strokes, heart disease, liver malfunctions, kidney disea and even an increased risk of psychosis from one of the drugs.

I LOVE to hear abuse from almost everyone when I walk down a street. Even old tramps and vagrants come out of their cardboard boxes to abuse me sometimes. It makes me feel so good.

I LOVE being discriminated against - being vetoed from jobs and having people laugh at me behind my back. I also LOVE the fact that I am almost entirely without rights - until recently even rape cannot be held as a charge against a man who attacks me.

I LOVED losing all of my friends and family when I came out - of course I also loved living in fear for almost 20 years of my life. I loved the suicide attempts, the depressions and the days when I prayed to God to let me die.

I LOVED hurting my parents and seeing their pain when the child they raised became dead to them when I started transition.

I LOVED being attacked by homophobic thugs who smashed my ribs, broke a leg, an arm, one of my wrists and fractured my skull abnd left me for dead when I was 18.

I LOVED my neighbours telling people when I was in my 20s that I was queer and a child molester and I loved the fact that they used up their own time to run a hate campaign against me that ran to throwing bricks through my windows and smashing up my car almost nightly.

Most of all I LOVE having to tell the occasional guy who shows an interest - listen sweetie - theres something you should now - I just love how that makes me feel.

I LOVE the fact I have had to have 3 major operations - each one scarier than the last, Playing russian roulette under general anaesthetic and long periods of pain and recovery in one case lasting 16 weeks.

Thank God we transsexuals keep it mostly quiet - I'd hate to think other people may get to find out just how good it is cos then they'd all want to join in.

Choice ? Dont make me laugh NO-ONE would choose it. To anyone who thinks its a choice thing juyst go along for one single session of electrolysis on your face- then tell me you;d be happy to have maybe 200 hours worth of that treatment and see if you think you would ever 'choose' to do that to yourself.

There was one choice I had in my life - transition and live as a woman as best as I can or kill myself and you know what - sometimjes I wonder if I chose right. The other options always there for any of us.

Transsexual woman have a mortality rate of over 65% - Suicide gets most of us - the rest go under when drug treatments go wrong but a sizeable number of us are killed each year in hate attacks.

Mel

what's it's cause, people fall in love

ps - as an addendum the UK where I live has at last after many years of fighting for our rights granted us the Gender Recogniton Act which accepts that women like me are through no fault of our own the victims of injustice.

The GRA seeks to redress some of these things and makes in unlawful for employers to disdcriminate against us, it also makes clear there IS transphobic crime against us and seeks to redress that.

Police in the UK have made great strides in many areas at setting a zero tolerance of 'hate' crimes that extends across racial, gender and gay hate crimes.

Its been a very long battle to get recognition but at least in the UK we are now getting a minimum level of protection.

What I see in the US scares me witless at times - there was a time women like me would look to the US as a haven - these days I see more US girls trying to get in to the UK where we appear to have taken the lead on human rights for the gay, lesbian and trans community.

I havent posted reserach links cos you are webmaster after all so you can do your own reserach iof you want. I think anyone examining with a fair mind the evidence would conclude that chouice doesnt play any part in it.

For transsexuals there are conclsuive studies which show that the brain structure is different from a male brain and closer to a female brain in construction ( female brains are smaller in size but have a higher density of cells in certain areas ). This has been pretty well conclsuively proved as has the case for homosexuality and transgender behaviour in other animals.

None the less there are people who seek to use science or the bible for their bigotted views.

Theres nothing sinful about being gay or transgendered - if God hadnt wanted you that way he wouldnt have made it so - you either believe he is omnipotent and all knowing ( in which case he made me as I am for his own reasons and you should accept me as part of his creation - to do less implies you know better than God ) OR he fucked up big time ( in which case why are you following a God who isnst really Godlike in his powers and why are you deferring your judgement to someone who isnst flawless themselves - you may as well worship Archie Bunker ).

Throughout history people have used other institutions to bolsetr their own bigotted attitudes - when a Christian says 'God hates Gays' what they really mean is 'I hate Gays but I dont want to seem like a bigotted moron so I am hiding behind something else that absolves me from any charge of being a fucking idiot'

The same when people hide behind pseudo-science or other types of intellectual dishonesty.

Oh and by the way never assume that even the Gay, lesbian and Trans community agree on stuff - theres plenty of rabid lesbians who would gladly see trans people gassed - as there are trans people who would gladly have the gays and lesbians gassed - so we are not by any means a united group. Sometimes we are portrayed as a solid block - an evil empire - whose aim is to bring down western civilisation. If you were ever in a gay activist group you'd see how little agreement there is even among ourselves.

For myself I prefer a live and let live approach - I just think iof everyone got on with their own business and didnt feel the need to make judgements about other people we might ALL be lots happier. That includes you heteros as well - laughs.

How about stop treating it like a disease and needing to know every and all 'causes' and just let people be who they are?

I tend to fully agree. You can also look at it from another perspective;

Why is somebody hetero? :warning

The point being is that each and every person should follow his mind and heart and people should respect others whether they are gay, bisexual, hetero, black, yellow, white or whatever.

In highschool it's oh so easy to piss on somebody with a group of people. I used to pester a gay guy as well when I was 15-16. I regret it now, because you could actually leave some damage like Marcus said.

I think it's a mix of nature and nurture :)
you will see some men that are extremely camp and feminin in all manerism, that is probably just nature, then there's the muscle maries, the trucker dikes and the lipstick lesbians, bisexuals etc. etc.

Think it can't be said in general whay people are how they are, nature plays a big part of who we are, but then so does our environment and friends, interests etc.
You would have to look at individual cases to be able to tell for sure :)

I subscribe to the live and let live, worry about yourself before you worry about someone else's personal business way of thinking.

People's biggest problems in this matter is the inability to accept that someone may be entirely different from you in ways that you may not be able to comprehend. And people fear what they do not understand.

I could quote Yoda, but why? I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about.
:2 cents: :thumbsup

My original intention of the thread wasn't targeted at "worry" or that anything is "wrong" or "bad". Personally, I think it's healthy to question why things are the way things are and just wanted to hear some GFY feedback on one of those questions I had.

Nothing more, nothing less.

So it is my mother's fault! :glugglug

I have no idea why I'm a lesbian, I guess I was born that way. I didnt figure it out until I was 14 (crush on my hot best friend lol). When I was in highschool I dated football players, was a cheerleader for a year, and got taken to prom 3 times, but none of that felt right. I was trying to be "normal" back then, but now at 23, I don't care what anyone thinks. I went to my first Pride Fest here in Atlanta last weekend and had a blast with gays, straights, transexuals, whites, blacks, asians, you name it :thumbsup

People in this thread are using genetic and biological like they are interchangable. Something genetic doesn't always pass down and something biological can happen to someone with no family history of it.

Going back to "nature or nurture", my first gay crush happened in 1966 when I was 5 (Burt Ward). Nobody then thought anything more of my having/wanting every "Robin" item that came along as being anything more than being a "fan". Years later I understand that he was one sexy stud and that I had good taste even at that early age :upsidedow

This was years before my mom and father divorced, so I did have "Mr. Macho man" in my life. He was anti-gay and racist, so by all "nurture" arguments I should not be gay and have as my best friend for over 21 years someone who is black. Only one of those thing was a choice. :2 cents:

Most gay people feel they were born gay

Based on what I've seen in various peer-reviewed tests, such as the twins study, I'd say that homosexuality is genetic. Some people, however, are about half way homosexual, and their adult sexuality is determined partly by their experiences. On theory I've heard is that the reason almost all socities, from ours all the way back to the cave men, try to keep it in the closet is to keep those undecideds in the heterosexual column and producing children. Remember, up until a few years ago, most kids didn't live to adulthood, and a society that wasn't set up to maximize the number of children would be less able to compete with other societies.
At least, that's the theory that seems to be becoming the accepted one amongst geneticists.
~~Warlock

It's biological

half way homoseuxal? Would that be people such as myself that are bisexual? I can remember getting turned on (I didn't realise that was what I was feeling then but now I know) by images of a woman as early as seven or eight but I had 'crushes' on boys too at the same age. My parents are both very straight and born again Christians. To my knowledge I am the only non-straight person in my family but I'm not out in the family so maybe others aren't either.

True story: I can remember at about eight years old being in the car with my mother and my sister who would have been about six. My sister asked my mom what a gay person was and she answered that it was someone that had something wrong with them that made them attracted to a member of the same sex. From the back seat I said 'their isn't something wrong with them they are just different'. Now, I was eight and I don't ever remember ever discussing homosexuality with anyone at all prior to that. Heck, I just learned about sex at ALL that year and I don't think I knew what gay people actually did in bed..i just thought of it in terms of love. So, something was in me at that age that knew it wasn't 'wrong' and it sure as heck didn't come from my parents.