Rumsfeld:Defeating the insurgency may take as long as 12 years
 

I wonder how much support for the war there would have been had you said this to begin with.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor..._mi_ea/us_iraq

sweet, too bad they don't focus on the war instead of 2257.

didn't they say it will be all over before bush ends his presidency...

didn't they say Iraq had WMD.

Teehee..

No shit huh?
What the Bushies have done is fucking insane...

Bush and Company are guilty of treason.

I think 2257 is when they think Iraqis will be able to defend themselves.

I am not a big fan of Bush but I support the Iraq effort. I would rather kill those bastards over there as opposed to having them kill us here.

Yes "They Did".

It was a blatant lie.

But no no...

Lets not impeach Bush and place his league in prison or anything...

Donald Rumsfeld is one of the most arrogant, sleazy, political bastards ever!

He never fought a day in combat, yet he has the blood on his hands of thousands of Americans and even more foreigners.

His glib attitude to the pain and suffering he has caused whole nations absolutely disgusts me.

May he burn in hell!!!

ADG Webmaster

What a mess

our goverment can't afford 12 years in Iraq.. they go BK long before that!

In case you didn't get the memo IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9-11.
In fact Iraq is 1000X more of a haven for terrorists NOW than it was before the war.

Exactly. That place is like a magnet for terrorists. They are there now and they will all get exterminated.

Have fun kids!

don't you think in their eyes WE ARE THE TERRORISTS? After all, we're the occupiers that have killed over 100,000 innocent civilians.. most of them women and children!

maybe hes just saying that so when its done in 5 years everyone will be happy

I have many friends that immigrated from Iraq in the early 90s. Their stories influence my opinion of the situation. To a man (and woman) they are all glad that Saddam was brought down and they feel that their relatives, who are still in Iraq, are better off since the U.S. occupation.

Nah, just print more money and keep putting tax dollars to good use :winkwink:

who gives a fuck if they're better off today or not.. last time I checked, Iraq was not part of the USA! We have too many problems here at home that are being ignored due to this great distraction.

if it was only that easy... all our national debt, is owned by asia.. most of it China.. so basicly, they own our asses!

Hate to fill your ignorant head with truth but besides the gulf war Iraq has never killed a single American.

You got that right.
China is the 800 lb gorilla in the living room that nobody wants to recognize.

Well the US want to be free of King George we did it ourselves. And yes, later on Fane and Spain HELP, but WE did most of the work. if the peole of Iraq wanted to be free they should have attempted it themselves. I would have had no problem in suppling training weapons and supplies to any group that wished to topple Saddam, but you've got to PROVE you are willing to put your own ass on the line bfore I'll risk mine for YOUR freedom.

Fact is I can't think of many democracies that exist because someone else freed them.

I am not talking about Iraq.
Iraq has become a magnet for terrorist from all over the world.
The battle is there.

This is true. You have a valid point.

I am not defending anything, I am merely sharing my opinion, which I know is not popular. :Oh crap

Checking out this site now. Looks interesting.

What most people fail to realize is that we really on oil for MANY products other than gasoline.

This statement is just plain fucking stupid. So what are you saying, the only people that hate the US are now in Iraq? The truth is this invasion has created thousands MORE terrorists. Just a matter of time before the US is hit with an attack that will make 9/11 childs play thanks to this bullshit. Hope people like you are happy when it happens.

very true.. after all, we are a nation of only 300 million people, yet we've pissed off OVER ONE BILLION MUSLIMS! and countless billions more!

China?

Wrong -- try again.

To make matter worse, while the Bush people may tell you that the troop number are decreasing in Iraq -- this is a half truth...the number of US troops is decreasing, but the total presense there is increasing and, worse yet, the jobs are being outsourced to mercenerys.

Check this Frontline special out, I found it EXTEMELY interesting:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/warriors/

wait they love us over there

If you were the US military and were planning for a potential war with China. A war which will require massive amounts of fuel.. What part of the world would you want a lot of your troups sitting in? Just a thought...

Well Afghanistan and Iraq for the western front and Korea and Japan for an eastern front.

first of all, maybe i missed it but they did ever find nuclear weapons? (one reason for the war)

You are correct,,,Iraq did not have anything to do with the 9/11 attack...but Iraq plays a major role in the fight against those that are our enemies in the mid east.

If you ask me, Bush has it in his pea brain to just nuke the country.

Nothing like spreading misinformation...now is there?

You may want to try and think again.

Even if you are correct...the next response from the US will make the measured response after 9/11...really look like childs play.

Think again...

The United States currently owes China over $650 BILLION in debt. That number is expected to grow to over $1 Trillion during the next 2 years.

How is this possible?

In order to pay for its two recent wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the Bush administration has been forced to loan money from, you guessed it, China.

Meanwhile the US Economy is slipping, and small wonder why. They are currently locked into a $162 billion/year trade deficit with China. The Chinese keep manufacturing products that Americans NEED and Americans keep on buying them. The problem is that the United States isn't manufacturing much in return and sending it back to China. In fact, they're manufacturing very little these days.

The airplane industry took a huge dive ever since September 11th. So the US isn't selling very many planes to China.

The automotive industry has went sour in the United States too. The major car manufacturers have moved out of the States. The funny fact is that Canada now builds more cars/trucks/SUVs than the United States does. And in the future, China is going to be building even more than Canada, the US, and Mexico combined.

So just WHAT is driving the US economy?

War profits.

When the war in Iraq eventually ends (and it will end someday), the US economy will fall flat on its back.

The only solution will be to have another war.

Which will mean more national debt, and more loans from China. The United States is currently $7,782,816,546,352.00 in debt, and much of that debt is owed to China.

On a business level, this is very RISKY business.

Imagine for a moment, a risk board... but only instead of armies, you have banks and manufacturing companies.

These banks/companies duel it out in the markets, and whichever ones don't go bankrupt win.

Now the United States has an almost $8 trillion US debt. When push comes to shove, the United States is in serious financial trouble. They are pinned down by that debt. They are carrying it with them. Which means their banks and their companies (neither of which are doing so hot) are carrying a portion of that debt because the American people are also carrying a portion of that debt. Per person, that debt is roughly $26-27,000 US, which includes every man, woman and child, regardless of whether they are an infant or already retired.

Combine that with the debt many Americans already face from credit cards, bank loans, mortgages... if these people lose their jobs suddenly, they are going to lose EVERYTHING.

Which is what will happen when the war in Iraq ends. The war profits can only keep the United States boosted above par for a short while. Eventually the US will have to have another war in order to keep things in the green, or they will have an economic depression.

And even during an economic depression, China will continue to send the United States more toasters, more DVDs, more fine china, more cars, more everything.

And if the United States raises tarriffs on Chinese imports, the result will be an inflation rate that will knock most of the middle-class into the lower-class, and many of the lower-class onto the street.

So right now, the United States is basically SCREWED.

Anything they do, whether they continue to make war, don't make war, their economy is so far down the toilet its already in the septic tank.

So after its officially in the septic tank, then what will happen?

Well, its quite simply, the United States will basically be slaves to the new order of things: Namely, China as the central world power instead of the United States; Americans hugely in credit card and mortgage debt and basically slaves to their debts; China will end up owning all the banks and all the credit card companies.

And thats how you win a trade war. When all the banks and major companies are owned by one country. The RISK game of the 21st Century won't be played with armies anymore. It will be played by bankers, accountants and lawyers.

I know how to end it in 35 minutes (from launch)

http://www.projectpeacemakers.org/re...0explosion.jpg

I'm well aware of the rise of the Chinese and their increasing influence on the US. If your post isn't common knowledge it should be...







Fact of the matter remains that CURRENTLY China is not the top holder of American debt in Asia, nor are they second. That's all I was saying.

Mr Fiction???

And that is why I posted this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick702
if it was only that easy... all our national debt, is owned by asia.. most of it China.. so basicly, they own our asses!



Nothing like spreading misinformation...now is there?

ignoramus.

Just 12 years ago, the Shiite Muslims who constitute a majority in Iraq and in the city of Baghdad were betrayed by the United States -- an act that may have cost them as many as 100,000 lives. That recent history -- of which the Shiites are understandably a good deal less forgetful than we -- explains why the Shiites in the south initially greeted invading American and British forces with a good deal more reserve than expected. And as the continuing turmoil in southern towns and cities makes clear, building a democratic state in Iraq over the long term will depend to a large degree on how strong and lasting a trust we can build among these people.

The spontaneous Shiite uprising of 1991 consumed the southern part of Iraq right up to the approaches to Baghdad. Rebels came to U.S. troops, who were then deployed in the Euphrates Valley, begging for U.S. intervention. The Shiite political parties sent emissaries to the few Americans who would see them. To this day, I am haunted by the desperation in the appeals made to me by one group, as they realized time was running out for their countrymen.

But although Bush had called for the rebellion, his administration was caught unprepared when it happened. The administration knew little about those in the Iraqi opposition because, as a matter of policy, it refused to talk to them. Policymakers tended to see Iraq's main ethnic groups in caricature: The Shiites were feared as pro-Iranian and the Kurds as anti-Turkish. Indeed, the U.S. administration seemed to prefer the continuation of the Baath regime (albeit without Hussein) to the success of the rebellion. As one National Security Council official told me at the time: "Our policy is to get rid of Saddam, not his regime."

The practical expression of this policy came in the decisions made by the military on the ground. U.S. commanders spurned the rebels' plea for help. The United States allowed Iraq to send Republican Guard units into southern cities and to fly helicopter gunships. (This in spite of a ban on flights, articulated by Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf with considerable swagger: "You fly, you die.") The consequences were devastating. Hussein's forces leveled the historical centers of the Shiite towns, bombarded sacred Shiite shrines and executed thousands on the spot. By some estimates, 100,000 people died in reprisal killings between March and September. Many of these atrocities were committed in proximity to American troops, who were under orders not to intervene.

The practical expression of this policy came in the decisions made by the military on the ground. U.S. commanders spurned the rebels' plea for help. The United States allowed Iraq to send Republican Guard units into southern cities and to fly helicopter gunships. (This in spite of a ban on flights, articulated by Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf with considerable swagger: "You fly, you die.") The consequences were devastating. Hussein's forces leveled the historical centers of the Shiite towns, bombarded sacred Shiite shrines and executed thousands on the spot. By some estimates, 100,000 people died in reprisal killings between March and September. Many of these atrocities were committed in proximity to American troops, who were under orders not to intervene.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer

theking: You're with me eh man

bhutocracy: Yeah. It's comical. Bush1 says to Saddam: Fuckit, go after Kuwait. I hate those browners too.

World: Hey WTF is Iraq doing?
Bush1: Uh... uh..... SEND THE TROOPPPPPPSSSS!!!
Saddam: WTF dude you could have asked nicely.
Bush1: Sorry you're evil now... I just... well everyone says you are. I liked you before but now you're poopy. OH YEAH. I won't let your troops surrendar. We are going to shoot them in the backs as they run.
Saddam: DUDE what are you doing? FUCK!
Bush1: I have no idear.

WP --

The announcement came as China signed an order at the Department of Commerce in Washington for 60 aircraft, worth up to $7.2 billion at list price.

Hrumph...