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GiantGnome 06-23-2005 02:04 PM

Juicy and anyone else trying to lose weight
 
Get yourself a mini tramp. You can find one for around $30 with a 300 pound limit. They are only 3 feet by 3 feet so you can leave them in a corner when you are done. What I do is get some music on, turn a fan on and point at me and just simply bounce in place for 30 minutes. My feet dont leave the mat, and I do a step in place thing about every 3 minutes when one of my calf muscles start to hurt. You get a very good cardio workout and your legs feel it too. Nothing fancy needed and you dont have to look like an arobics instructor doing it. :thumbsup

Thurbs 06-23-2005 02:07 PM

thats interesting, I'm trying to lose fat while I lift 5 days a week at the office. I'll have to pick one up.

Mrs. Lenny2 06-23-2005 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiantGnome
Get yourself a mini tramp. You can find one for around $30 with a 300 pound limit. They are only 3 feet by 3 feet so you can leave them in a corner when you are done. What I do is get some music on, turn a fan on and point at me and just simply bounce in place for 30 minutes. My feet dont leave the mat, and I do a step in place thing about every 3 minutes when one of my calf muscles start to hurt. You get a very good cardio workout and your legs feel it too. Nothing fancy needed and you dont have to look like an arobics instructor doing it. :thumbsup

That's a great idea. I used to love those things as a kid.

High Plains Drifter 06-23-2005 02:16 PM

Trampolines are a waste of time and you'll get bored in a hurry. An excellent cardio and toning workout that often gets overlooked due to its fruity connotations is yoga. Pickup a yoga dvd and stretch and work out every muscle in your body. Maximize the time you spend doing fitness.

Mrs. Lenny2 06-23-2005 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinnywussy
Trampolines are a waste of time and you'll get bored in a hurry. An excellent cardio and toning workout that often gets overlooked due to its fruity connotations is yoga. Pickup a yoga dvd and stretch and work out every muscle in your body. Maximize the time you spend doing fitness.

I agree that yoga is also good but it's not for everyone. For those that are significantly overweight, yoga isn't easy nor it is at all comfortable to do. Once a person has lost some weight, then yes, I'm all for it.

latinasojourn 06-23-2005 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiantGnome
Get yourself a mini tramp. You can find one for around $30 with a 300 pound limit. They are only 3 feet by 3 feet so you can leave them in a corner when you are done. What I do is get some music on, turn a fan on and point at me and just simply bounce in place for 30 minutes. My feet dont leave the mat, and I do a step in place thing about every 3 minutes when one of my calf muscles start to hurt. You get a very good cardio workout and your legs feel it too. Nothing fancy needed and you dont have to look like an arobics instructor doing it. :thumbsup


well, i ride my bike about 10miles/day, but this IS a good idea for those cold or rainy days.

jumping rope ain't fun.

GiantGnome 06-23-2005 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinnywussy
Trampolines are a waste of time and you'll get bored in a hurry. An excellent cardio and toning workout that often gets overlooked due to its fruity connotations is yoga. Pickup a yoga dvd and stretch and work out every muscle in your body. Maximize the time you spend doing fitness.


Yoga is good too, but in my case impossible. I have had 3 back surgeries and have a rod in my my back. What I like about the tramp is, its very low impact, and the only cordination I need is being able to stay on my feet.

High Plains Drifter 06-23-2005 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs. Lenny2
For those that are significantly overweight, yoga isn't easy nor it is at all comfortable to do.

Agreed. I didn't know we were talking about huge people here. Yoga is still good for people that are up to, say, 50 lbs overweight.

Sarah_Jayne 06-23-2005 02:32 PM

I got myself one of those mini foot cycle things that fit under the desk. THey don't give a huge amount of exercise but I figured it would be good for circulation and it just would be better to be moving that little bit. I am doing it all the time since I use it for my foot rest and most of the time I forget I am even doing it.

Mrs. Lenny2 06-23-2005 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinnywussy
Agreed. I didn't know we were talking about huge people here. Yoga is still good for people that are up to, say, 50 lbs overweight.

LOL @ huge. I'm hoping that wasn't meant in a derogatory manner but I did get your point. I am overweight and find yoga to be difficult and uncomfortable. And, like GiantGnome, I have some back problems so it makes it even worse.

AVPS Zack 06-23-2005 03:31 PM

My downstairs neighbors wouldn't be stoked.

Steve 06-23-2005 03:35 PM

it takes me at least 30 minutes to get up from a prone position - does that count as aerobic activity?

RedShoe 06-23-2005 04:06 PM

I'm a disgusting fat body as well. I've been putting it on like crazy lately. I've become disgusted with myself and so I've been trying to lose it.

My only diet plan... eat less. I stopped eating until I get full. Instead of 4 tacos and 2 burritos I cut it back to just 2 burritos and a taco from taco bell. In time I hope to get down to just 2 items from a fast food place. And eventually I plan on eliminating fast food altogher.

Lately.. And this is no joke, I've been eating a half a watermelon for breakfast. I think it's helping. I've lost a few pounds just this week.

I know I shouldn't lose weight to fast, so I'm trying to pace myself. It took me years to get this heavy, it should take me a while to take it off.

I've been getting back on the treadmill lately. I can barely jog a mile without feeling like I'm gonna die. Sad. I hope to get up to a 5 mile jog by this time next year.

I listen to this for inspiration.

Please listen to it. It may inspire all you disgusting fat bodies as well.
http://bootybone.com/gfy/jellydoughnut.wav

Mrs. Lenny2 06-23-2005 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedShoe
I'm a disgusting fat body as well. I've been putting it on like crazy lately. I've become disgusted with myself and so I've been trying to lose it.

My only diet plan... eat less. I stopped eating until I get full. Instead of 4 tacos and 2 burritos I cut it back to just 2 burritos and a taco from taco bell. In time I hope to get down to just 2 items from a fast food place. And eventually I plan on eliminating fast food altogher.

Lately.. And this is no joke, I've been eating a half a watermelon for breakfast. I think it's helping. I've lost a few pounds just this week.

I know I shouldn't lose weight to fast, so I'm trying to pace myself. It took me years to get this heavy, it should take me a while to take it off.

I've been getting back on the treadmill lately. I can barely jog a mile without feeling like I'm gonna die. Sad. I hope to get up to a 5 mile jog by this time next year.

I listen to this for inspiration.

Please listen to it. It may inspire all you disgusting fat bodies as well.
http://bootybone.com/gfy/jellydoughnut.wav


While I applaud your efforts and wish you the best of luck, :thumbsup I don't consider myself as a disgusting fat body. I'm overweight, yes, but I'm far from disgusting.

abyss_al 06-23-2005 04:09 PM

my mini tramp:

http://upsidedowntv.com/staff%20stuf...pics/aaw.sized

:thumbsup

adonthenet 06-23-2005 04:10 PM

good luck , i dont need it :P

QuaWee 06-23-2005 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abyss_al

:1orglaugh

taibo 06-23-2005 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiantGnome
Get yourself a mini tramp. You can find one for around $30 with a 300 pound limit. They are only 3 feet by 3 feet so you can leave them in a corner when you are done. What I do is get some music on, turn a fan on and point at me and just simply bounce in place for 30 minutes. My feet dont leave the mat, and I do a step in place thing about every 3 minutes when one of my calf muscles start to hurt. You get a very good cardio workout and your legs feel it too. Nothing fancy needed and you dont have to look like an arobics instructor doing it. :thumbsup

lol another great weight loss program, doesnt top the body wrap idea though :thumbsup

GiantGnome 06-23-2005 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedShoe
I'm a disgusting fat body as well. I've been putting it on like crazy lately. I've become disgusted with myself and so I've been trying to lose it.

My only diet plan... eat less. I stopped eating until I get full. Instead of 4 tacos and 2 burritos I cut it back to just 2 burritos and a taco from taco bell. In time I hope to get down to just 2 items from a fast food place. And eventually I plan on eliminating fast food altogher.

Lately.. And this is no joke, I've been eating a half a watermelon for breakfast. I think it's helping. I've lost a few pounds just this week.

I know I shouldn't lose weight to fast, so I'm trying to pace myself. It took me years to get this heavy, it should take me a while to take it off.

I've been getting back on the treadmill lately. I can barely jog a mile without feeling like I'm gonna die. Sad. I hope to get up to a 5 mile jog by this time next year.

I listen to this for inspiration.

Please listen to it. It may inspire all you disgusting fat bodies as well.
http://bootybone.com/gfy/jellydoughnut.wav

I love it and saved it! Thank you! :thumbsup

RedShoe 06-23-2005 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs. Lenny2
While I applaud your efforts and wish you the best of luck, :thumbsup I don't consider myself as a disgusting fat body. I'm overweight, yes, but I'm far from disgusting.

Well, you haven't seen me. Trust me.. I'm hideous. Thanks for the support though. I do hope eating less is the answer. Far too often I see crazy diest come along. People lose weight and they bounce back.

Then I listen to certified nutritionists and trainers, they all have the same bottom line. DON'T EAT SO FUCKIN' MUCH, and EXCERSIZE. No crazy diets, no self sacrifice like cutting out your favorite foods. Just cut BACK on them.

If you stop eating all your favorite food, you'll snap and binge.

Mrs. Lenny2 06-23-2005 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedShoe
Well, you haven't seen me. Trust me.. I'm hideous. Thanks for the support though. I do hope eating less is the answer. Far too often I see crazy diest come along. People lose weight and they bounce back.

Then I listen to certified nutritionists and trainers, they all have the same bottom line. DON'T EAT SO FUCKIN' MUCH, and EXCERSIZE. No crazy diets, no self sacrifice like cutting out your favorite foods. Just cut BACK on them.

If you stop eating all your favorite food, you'll snap and binge.

*hug* I wish you had a better view of yourself. You're very welcome for the support. I've been heavy since I hit puberty because of this pesky little thing called Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (PCOS). Basically, rather than using the stored fat for energy, my body holds onto it and pumps out more insulin. I wasn't diagnosed until a few years ago though. I take Glucophage for it and if I eat properly, I lose weight. I lost about 40 lbs. a few years ago on Atkin's (bad move). Of course, once I stopped, I gained it all back (and then some). I'm the first to admit that I haven't been diligent about it but this past Monday I decided to make an effort. Hopefully it will work out for me. My doctor basically told me to stay away from the bad carbs rather than cutting out carbs altogether. We'll see what happens.... :)

Shoplifter 06-23-2005 04:41 PM

Anyone know the details of that Hollywood diet that Renee Zellwiger, Lindsay Lohan etc are on? Now those girls have lost weight.

NoCarrier 06-23-2005 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoplifter
Anyone know the details of that Hollywood diet that Renee Zellwiger, Lindsay Lohan etc are on? Now those girls have lost weight.

http://www.co.benton.ar.us/Court/Pro...ges/Meth04.jpg

Enjoy.

prezzz 06-23-2005 04:44 PM

I've got another idea for people who are getting bored with physical training. I set a simple rule - I'm a busy man and I really like playing video games, but it takes too much time. So I came up with an idea - I bouth a stationary training bike and right now the only time I allow myself to play video games is when I use the bike.

It's a double fun, as firstly I play the games without any remorse that I'm wasting time and secondly, when I play games while 'riding' the bike, I'm not getting bored of it. Very often I simply FORGET that I'm training (if the game is interesting enough - like online football/soccer matches against live opponents). 30-40 minutes pass by very quickly.

Mrs. Lenny2 06-23-2005 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoplifter
Anyone know the details of that Hollywood diet that Renee Zellwiger, Lindsay Lohan etc are on? Now those girls have lost weight.

If you're referring to the 48-hour diet, it's basically a bunch of fruit juices, etc. intended to flush out your digestive system, much like a laxative.

prezzz 06-23-2005 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoplifter
Anyone know the details of that Hollywood diet that Renee Zellwiger, Lindsay Lohan etc are on? Now those girls have lost weight.

Diet won't do anything good if you don't exercise. And vice versa. It's all about "eat less, train more" - the point is to find a sport you enjoy most.

sniperwolf 06-23-2005 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abyss_al

yeah.. you can jump on her all they! :winkwink:

GiantGnome 06-23-2005 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abyss_al

wow i just saw this. i guess if short workouts is your thing than go for it. noooooooo i didnt mean short be cause shes a midgit i meant short because.........................OK OK, Thats exactly what I meant. :1orglaugh

MerlinK 06-23-2005 04:59 PM

Ahhahahahahahahahahah...

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoCarrier


RedShoe 06-23-2005 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs. Lenny2
*hug* I wish you had a better view of yourself. You're very welcome for the support. I've been heavy since I hit puberty because of this pesky little thing called Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (PCOS). Basically, rather than using the stored fat for energy, my body holds onto it and pumps out more insulin. I wasn't diagnosed until a few years ago though. I take Glucophage for it and if I eat properly, I lose weight. I lost about 40 lbs. a few years ago on Atkin's (bad move). Of course, once I stopped, I gained it all back (and then some). I'm the first to admit that I haven't been diligent about it but this past Monday I decided to make an effort. Hopefully it will work out for me. My doctor basically told me to stay away from the bad carbs rather than cutting out carbs altogether. We'll see what happens.... :)

Yep. I'm starting to see a trend towards eating less and excersizing more. Sorry to hear about your PCOS. My wife has PMS so I think it's the same family.. I'm KIDDING!! :1orglaugh

We should keep each other up to date on our progress like a mini support group. Yahoo has a really nice weight loss tracker on it, if you use a "MyYahoo" personal page.

One of the guys over at *** is so in tune with his body he could tell his body was producing more insulin, and when he wasn't producing enough. He would eat a small piece of fruit, or bread or whatever he needed to find the balance. He would sometimes jump around and throw a few punches to increase his metabolism and start to burn carbs for energy. That guy was a trip. I wish I were in tune like that.

Good luck with your weight management.

Mrs. Lenny2 06-23-2005 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedShoe
Yep. I'm starting to see a trend towards eating less and excersizing more. Sorry to hear about your PCOS. My wife has PMS so I think it's the same family.. I'm KIDDING!! :1orglaugh

We should keep each other up to date on our progress like a mini support group. Yahoo has a really nice weight loss tracker on it, if you use a "MyYahoo" personal page.

One of the guys over at *** is so in tune with his body he could tell his body was producing more insulin, and when he wasn't producing enough. He would eat a small piece of fruit, or bread or whatever he needed to find the balance. He would sometimes jump around and throw a few punches to increase his metabolism and start to burn carbs for energy. That guy was a trip. I wish I were in tune like that.

Good luck with your weight management.

:1orglaugh I literally laughed out loud when I read your post. Thanks for a little levity on this stressful day.

I think a mini support group is a very good idea. A positive support system does wonders for motivation.

VeriSexy 06-23-2005 05:14 PM

Why not just get into sports? :thumbsup

Mike Semen 06-23-2005 05:24 PM

Yah I have lost 2 stone (approx 12 kgs) eating well and going to the gym in 5 months. Still a fair way to go, but you just need to ctually want to do it.

Another 6 kgs and I'll be done.

Any fucker can do it. At the end of the day you have to distance yourself from hunger and cravings. They're just your brain being used to a certain pattern. Break it and you're done.

Pleasurepays 06-23-2005 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedShoe
Well, you haven't seen me. Trust me.. I'm hideous. Thanks for the support though. I do hope eating less is the answer. Far too often I see crazy diest come along. People lose weight and they bounce back.

Then I listen to certified nutritionists and trainers, they all have the same bottom line. DON'T EAT SO FUCKIN' MUCH, and EXCERSIZE. No crazy diets, no self sacrifice like cutting out your favorite foods. Just cut BACK on them.

If you stop eating all your favorite food, you'll snap and binge.

diets dont fail people. people fail to understand that they need to change their eating habits for life - those same habits which caused the problem to begin with. if you starve yourself, you lose muscle as well. less muscle means less daily caloric needs to maintain i.e. slower metabolism - improved ability to gain weight. thats why people gain weight back really fast. a combination of your body being quite receptive to increased caloric intake once people reach their goals, combined with the fact that they lost so much muscle that they are now eating much more than they need anyway, even though they percieve themselves to be eating healthier and less than before.

"just eat less" is terrible advice in my opinion. if you are still eating crap... and start eating less crap, it does not change the fact that you are eating crap. what matters is what you DO eat... not what you DON'T eat. it matters very much what food you put into your body for fuel, energy, maintenence and repair.

:2 cents: :2 cents:

jonesy 06-23-2005 05:27 PM

diets are bullshit


control daily calorie intake

walk 40 min a day

thats all you need to lose weight

Mike Semen 06-23-2005 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays
diets dont fail people. people fail to understand that they need to change their eating habits for life - those same habits which caused the problem to begin with. if you starve yourself, you lose muscle as well. less muscle means less daily caloric needs to maintain i.e. slower metabolism - improved ability to gain weight. thats why people gain weight back really fast. a combination of your body being quite receptive to increased caloric intake once people reach their goals, combined with the fact that they lost so much muscle that they are now eating much more than they need anyway, even though they percieve themselves to be eating healthier and less than before.

"just eat less" is terrible advice in my opinion. if you are still eating crap... and start eating less crap, it does not change the fact that you are eating crap. what matters is what you DO eat... not what you DON'T eat. it matters very much what food you put into your body for fuel, energy, maintenence and repair.

:2 cents: :2 cents:

Agreed

88888888

Mrs. Lenny2 06-23-2005 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeriSexy
Why not just get into sports? :thumbsup

As someone who is significantly overweight, the only sport that's safe (or even possible) is swimming. The town I live in does not have a YMCA and you can't do laps in a public pool.

I have weak ankles and messed up knees, so jogging is out of the question. Any other type of sport is too rigorous for me at this juncture. Once I've lost some weight, I can revisit the subject.

Mike Semen 06-23-2005 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs. Lenny2
As someone who is significantly overweight, the only sport that's safe (or even possible) is swimming. The town I live in does not have a YMCA and you can't do laps in a public pool.

I have weak ankles and messed up knees, so jogging is out of the question. Any other type of sport is too rigorous for me at this juncture. Once I've lost some weight, I can revisit the subject.

Cycling might help?

RedShoe 06-23-2005 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeriSexy
Why not just get into sports? :thumbsup

I don't think you can lose much weight golfing.

"Golf, a good way to ruin a nice walk" - Winston Churchill

Also, sports involves finding a sport, joining a team, having to deal with team drama, and there is always some dumb sports fanatic that harasses other players...(every team has a Charles Barkley. Nice off the field, but a prick and a cry baby on the field), then you gotta go to practice and and get involved with all the other players to become a team, listening to their bullshit sports moments, then you have to go through the humiliation of losing a few games, and listen to your team blame each other, the coach is an ego maniac, half your team is alcoholic, the commitment to show up to all games even when it fucks up your normal schedule, suiting up before each game and having to go through a ritual to pump yourself up...

FUCK ALL THAT NOISE, I'd rather just walk or jog around the block a few times with some headphones on.

And besides... I thought I already told you. Sports are gay!
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?p=7628613
http://bootybone.com/gfy/gay-ball.jpg

pornguy 06-23-2005 05:34 PM

And it works great for photo shoots.

Mrs. Lenny2 06-23-2005 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays
diets dont fail people. people fail to understand that they need to change their eating habits for life - those same habits which caused the problem to begin with. if you starve yourself, you lose muscle as well. less muscle means less daily caloric needs to maintain i.e. slower metabolism - improved ability to gain weight. thats why people gain weight back really fast. a combination of your body being quite receptive to increased caloric intake once people reach their goals, combined with the fact that they lost so much muscle that they are now eating much more than they need anyway, even though they percieve themselves to be eating healthier and less than before.

"just eat less" is terrible advice in my opinion. if you are still eating crap... and start eating less crap, it does not change the fact that you are eating crap. what matters is what you DO eat... not what you DON'T eat. it matters very much what food you put into your body for fuel, energy, maintenence and repair.

:2 cents: :2 cents:

While I agree with most of your post, you do have to realize that some people have disorders that contribute to weight gain, regardless of what food they put in their body. Please read my post earlier about PCOS. While I admit that I didn't always eat the proper foods as an adult, I didn't grow up eating junk. My parents cooked wholesome meals and we rarely ate fast food. Yet, since the onset of menstruation, I've gained weight and kept it on regardless of the food that I ate. Of course, there was that brief period of 4 months on Atkin's where I lost 40 pounds.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not making excuses for myself or for anyone else. I'm just stating some facts.

GiantGnome 06-23-2005 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pornguy
And it works great for photo shoots.

I cant believe that didnt cross my mind! Guess what im going to try to get my wife to do tonight? :Graucho

Pleasurepays 06-23-2005 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs. Lenny2
As someone who is significantly overweight, the only sport that's safe (or even possible) is swimming. The town I live in does not have a YMCA and you can't do laps in a public pool.

I have weak ankles and messed up knees, so jogging is out of the question. Any other type of sport is too rigorous for me at this juncture. Once I've lost some weight, I can revisit the subject.

being significantly overweight, if you made changes to your diet, you would lose weight very fast without any exercise. besides that, you can walk... just move more. you dont have to run or do anything drastic if you are just starting.

i would say that in general, it takes little effort to reduce your body fat % from say 50% to 30% or 25%. it only gets more difficult as you go further and your body steps up its efforts to resist your efforts. my suggestion would be to improve your diet, figure out how many calories you should be eating every day. start planning meals accordingly and watch your progress - being ready to tweak and tune your diet along the way.

Mrs. Lenny2 06-23-2005 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Semen
Cycling might help?

Yes, cycling would help as well. I do own a mountain bike but I admit that I don't ride it like I should. I'm not blaming anyone but myself for that. Unfortunately, we live in Louisiana where the humidity is a killer. However, we may invest in a stationary bike.

Thanks for the tip. :thumbsup

Sparks 06-23-2005 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarah_webinc
I got myself one of those mini foot cycle things that fit under the desk. THey don't give a huge amount of exercise but I figured it would be good for circulation and it just would be better to be moving that little bit. I am doing it all the time since I use it for my foot rest and most of the time I forget I am even doing it.

Lol, that's awesome. I might have to try that.

Mrs. Lenny2 06-23-2005 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays
being significantly overweight, if you made changes to your diet, you would lose weight very fast without any exercise. besides that, you can walk... just move more. you dont have to run or do anything drastic if you are just starting.

i would say that in general, it takes little effort to reduce your body fat % from say 50% to 30% or 25%. it only gets more difficult as you go further and your body steps up its efforts to resist your efforts. my suggestion would be to improve your diet, figure out how many calories you should be eating every day. start planning meals accordingly and watch your progress - being ready to tweak and tune your diet along the way.

That's exactly what I have been doing since this past Monday - - changing my diet. My husband and I need to start taking walks once the sun goes down. We used to walk 3 miles about every other day.

GiantGnome 06-23-2005 05:43 PM

Redshoe, I dont know if you remember this or not. When I first joined this board, I said some very mean things to you after something I read. You seem to be an ok person and are entitled to your own beliefs. Im sorry

Tala 06-23-2005 05:45 PM

BIG trampolines are awesome for photo shoots.

Speaking of photo shoots....

reynold 06-23-2005 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoCarrier

For Sure! This Could give you the best result!

Mrs. Lenny2 06-23-2005 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiantGnome
Redshoe, I dont know if you remember this or not. When I first joined this board, I said some very mean things to you after something I read. You seem to be an ok person and are entitled to your own beliefs. Im sorry

:thumbsup :thumbsup


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