One of my models just said she was going to sue me if I give out her ID!!!! - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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DWB

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#1

One of my models just said she was going to sue me if I give out her ID!!!!

06-16-2005, 12:12 PM

I have been talking to some of my US based models about how they feel about their IDs being given out and as you would think, they are very unhappy with it.

One of the girls is a smart little chick and she shows up at my door today (after last nights phone convo) with a copy of her model release in hand and tells me that if I can't find the part on it where she gives permission to give out her ID she will sue me on June 24.

Now, my release does say I can do what ever I want with the footage, pics, media, blah, blah, blah... but nowhere does it say anything about transferring or publishing her ID or personal information.

Check your release boys and girls, we may be in for a model backlash shit storm.

I'm waiting to hear back from my attorney on this one, but I'm smart enough to know that if it's not in the contract... she probably has a valid suit.

Discuss.
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After Shock Media

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#2

06-16-2005, 12:14 PM

Did you ever bother to take a picture of her holding her id? What about a picture of her id?

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sixxxthsense

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#3

06-16-2005, 12:14 PM

ya'll paranoid and ya'll gonna quit soon!
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DWB

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#4

06-16-2005, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by sixxxthsense

ya'll paranoid and ya'll gonna quit soon!

"ya'll" ain't quitting shit. Only 5% of what I do is in the USA.
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BillyHoe

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#5

06-16-2005, 12:18 PM

CYA ALWAYS take a picture of the model holding the ID. Then if your release is well written you'll never have a problem releasing that picture if you had to.

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Mutt

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#6

06-16-2005, 12:18 PM

I have a feeling models stand a very good chance at winning a law suit against any producer who distributes her I.D's without informing her and getting her written permission.

I don't think the future for licensed content providers in the U.S. is very good, not much better for Europeans because some lawyers are advising their clients that they should not be buying content now from non-U.S. producer over that vague poorly written part of the 2257 law.

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Rich

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#7

06-16-2005, 12:22 PM

That would be the smart thing for the models to do, this entire nonsense does nothing but put them in very real, serious physical danger.
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DWB

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#8

06-16-2005, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by After Shock Media

Did you ever bother to take a picture of her holding her id? What about a picture of her id?

Yes, and that's a slippery slope. While in theory that is "digital media" that still does not allow me to publish her private information just because I snapped a photo of it. Her holding the ID in a pic does not give me permission to publish the private information on that photo.

That's the same as if I took a photo of her debit card and attached the pin # to the image. Sure, she signed off on the images, but that does not mean I could do such a thing.

I think if push came to shove on this, producers will lose this argument unless your release clearly states that you will be giving out her private information.

Time will tell... and this girl may be the first to sue. Maybe I will have to take one for the team.
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#9

06-16-2005, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

"ya'll" ain't quitting shit. Only 5% of what I do is in the USA.

ya'll is wasting cpu's memory on gfy.
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Major (Tom)

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#10

06-16-2005, 12:32 PM

by taking pics of her ID theoretically you own the image...

and for the record Id rather have some girl with no money sue me than the gov comming down in full swing on me.
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Sly

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#11

06-16-2005, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

Yes, and that's a slippery slope. While in theory that is "digital media" that still does not allow me to publish her private information just because I snapped a photo of it. Her holding the ID in a pic does not give me permission to publish the private information on that photo.

You wouldn't be publishing the private information. You would be transferring the private information to another entity you do business with, whom of which is required by law to have that information.

Whether or not THAT is legal, is another story altogether, haha.

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#12

06-16-2005, 12:34 PM

This is exactly what the DOJ wanted to happen

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#13

06-16-2005, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by DukeSkywalker

by taking pics of her ID theoretically you own the image...

Uhh, depends on where you live.

In my state, DL/ID cards are property of the state, and must be forefeitted upon demand.

She (legally) couldn't give someone else the rights to the image of her ID if she didn't own it in the first place.

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#14

06-16-2005, 12:35 PM

i dont want my id flying around either..

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DWB

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#15

06-16-2005, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by sixxxthsense

ya'll is wasting cpu's memory on gfy.

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#16

06-16-2005, 12:38 PM

This is a great fighting angle.

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Rinaldo

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#17

06-16-2005, 12:38 PM

I never thought of this before, REally really interesting.
Well can't you just have new model releases printed up? Start fresh
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#18

06-16-2005, 12:38 PM

if you don't want your personal info public then don't be out there showing ass and titties on cam for money

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kernelpanic

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#19

06-16-2005, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by Digipimp

if you don't want your personal info public then don't be out there showing ass and titties on cam for money

If the model did a shoot under a release which didn't waive her right to privacy, then why should she be punished for it?

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NTSS

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#20

06-16-2005, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

I have been talking to some of my US based models about how they feel about their IDs being given out and as you would think, they are very unhappy with it.

One of the girls is a smart little chick and she shows up at my door today (after last nights phone convo) with a copy of her model release in hand and tells me that if I can't find the part on it where she gives permission to give out her ID she will sue me on June 24.

Now, my release does say I can do what ever I want with the footage, pics, media, blah, blah, blah... but nowhere does it say anything about transferring or publishing her ID or personal information.

Check your release boys and girls, we may be in for a model backlash shit storm.

I'm waiting to hear back from my attorney on this one, but I'm smart enough to know that if it's not in the contract... she probably has a valid suit.

Discuss.

Dump her and find models that will allow you to follow the law

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kaori

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#21

06-16-2005, 12:45 PM

I'm betting that even if you DO have a stipulation in the model release stating that private information may be given out to other businesses, the models will still have a strong argument when it comes to mass publishing their private information.
Especially when it comes to passing it out to every little affiliate

With the US Privacy laws being what they are, it's going to be tricky..
Additionally, some contracts signed in 'good faith' are easily overturned..
In otherwords, if the model doesn't understand what she read, yet signed it anyways, or didn't read the contract fully, then the contract can be rendered not legally binding...
At least, that's how I understand it....

Short of having her on video, with you stating "I'm going to give your ID to anyone who requires it, which may number in the hundreds, do you agree?" and her agreeing to it, you may have to remove the content if she sues you..
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#22

06-16-2005, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by kernelpanic

If the model did a shoot under a release which didn't waive her right to privacy, then why should she be punished for it?

that's not what i'm saying, i'm saying you're showing your face and everything else all over material that's distributed all over the world and then how can you be concerned about your id. it's a public world now, unless you're bin laden, someone will find you.

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diggz

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#23

06-16-2005, 12:49 PM

Just let affiliates know they can't use her hardcore content for promotion. You can still put her ass on the front page of your site.. and make fhg's.. etc etc
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#24

06-16-2005, 12:50 PM

models are a pain in the ass. lol good luck
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#25

06-16-2005, 01:27 PM

They might be a pain in the ass - but you'd be fucked without them unless your putting yourself on front street to appear in some gay content - grinz

There are some people who say I have never done anything wrong in my life - of course they only say that behind my back
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#26

06-16-2005, 01:31 PM

Now I'm going to stretch this to the limit

Let's say a big company like Silvercash, Topbucks, CE with 10,000 - 40,000 affiliates gives the info on thousands of models to affilates god-knows-where in the world.

Now they have put out info to affiliates, some of who will do anything from spam to highjacking peoples computers.

Now all this aff has to do is join your program take your content, banners and ads and he can get personal info on thousands of models.

You are going to have model info membership sites popping up like password sites today and how the hell are we going to be able to stop it.

Believe me, this info will get to the surfer if someone thinks they can make a buck on it and then we will all get sued bigtime.

This situation in really going to get fucked and we are the ones who are going to get fucked

Last edited by Hank_Heartland; 06-16-2005, 01:33 PM.

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The Dawg

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#27

06-16-2005, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

I have been talking to some of my US based models about how they feel about their IDs being given out and as you would think, they are very unhappy with it.

Shouldnt the only person to see the actual ID be the agent(s) if they choose to come by your office? Im thinking the only thing that should be internet accessable is WHERE the records are. Why does everyone need to see the personal info?
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latinasojourn

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#28

06-16-2005, 01:54 PM

look, this disclosure of model ID is a big can of worms.

with ID theft all the rage now this will spawn a new cottage industry of quick and easy ID theft, or "ID for sale" scams.

don't tell me you're going to trust 50,000 USA webmasters (and a few of these guys are the biggest scum of the earth) to be safe repositories for confidential ID information.

imagine this scenario:

an arab looking girl wants to be a suicide bomber. all she needs to do is clone a girl's ID, get some facial prothesis and makeup, get a phony passport, etc, all with the basic information she can get from hacking into (or buying online) model 2257 IDs. i mean what a database for scam artists---mostly young healthy people aged 18-30. for crissake many producers require models to give up SS#s. she can very easily obtain this information given the new 2257 disclosure requirements.

and don't tell me it won't be done.

next you have the ID credit file thieves---for crissake this is a goldmine for them.

VERY POORLY THOUGHT OUT IDEA in an age of international terrorism and identity theft for financial gain.
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#29

06-16-2005, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by The Dawg

Shouldnt the only person to see the actual ID be the agent(s) if they choose to come by your office? Im thinking the only thing that should be internet accessable is WHERE the records are. Why does everyone need to see the personal info?

Everyone doesn't need to see the ID's but every aff needs to have the ID's at their place of business...That's just asking for trouble

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bigdog

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#30

06-16-2005, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by latinasojourn

look, this disclosure of model ID is a big can of worms.

with ID theft all the rage now this will spawn a new cottage industry of quick and easy ID theft, or "ID for sale" scams.

don't tell me you're going to trust 50,000 USA webmasters (and a few of these guys are the biggest scum of the earth) to be safe repositories for confidential ID information.

imagine this scenario:

an arab looking girl wants to be a suicide bomber. all she needs to do is clone a girl's ID, get some facial prothesis and makeup, get a phony passport, etc, all with the basic information she can get from hacking into (or buying online) model 2257 IDs. i mean what a database for scam artists---mostly young healthy people aged 18-30. for crissake many producers require models to give up SS#s. she can very easily obtain this information given the new 2257 disclosure requirements.

and don't tell me it won't be done.

next you have the ID credit file thieves---for crissake this is a goldmine for them.

VERY POORLY THOUGHT OUT IDEA in an age of international terrorism and identity theft for financial gain.

thats another thing if people are going to have online access to their 2257 docs they better secure it as best as they can.
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The Dawg

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#31

06-16-2005, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by Hank_Heartland

Everyone doesn't need to see the ID's but every aff needs to have the ID's at their place of business...That's just asking for trouble

Are you sure about that? That sounds kind of impossible & really makes no sense. Im thinking the PRODUCER of the content needs to have this info and the affiates needs to have proper linking to the where the PRODUCER is located and where the records are.
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#32

06-16-2005, 02:07 PM

Cant say I blame her, in fact I can simpatyze (sp) with her...

Nice smart model you have there ;)
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#33

06-16-2005, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by bigdog

thats another thing if people are going to have online access to their 2257 docs they better secure it as best as they can.

look, i have high rez images of girls holding their state DL's in one hand, and holding their SS card in the other at 10mp resolution.

you can count every freckle on the girl's face, and tell she used a medium point bic pen when she signed her signature. i can see she had a root canal on one tooth, and cosmetic dentistry on two other teeth.

her signature alone goes almost entirely across my monitor at this resolution.

do you folks have any IDEA what data files of this quality could do for criminals who are into ID theft?

do you know how valuable this sort of stuff is to those criminals?

shit, when you go buy a new car the thieves don't have ID data this good.

this is a recipe for disaster.
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#34

06-16-2005, 02:17 PM

My 2257 software programmer attended the FSC seminar in SD yesterday and he said the lawyers there on the panel for the FSC have told producers they must specifically have clauses in their model releases informing the models that their photo id information may be transferred to DOJ investigators for the purposes of performing an official government investigation.

The lawyer also suggested that the model release inform the model that the information could be passed on to secondary producers and that they could absolutely consult with an attorney to get their model release forms updated.

There was mention of model release forms being available on the FSC web site that would conform to the new 2257 regs and protect primary producers from this kind of litigation. The lawyers also stated there could be differences in state or other jurisdictions, which is why it is necessary to have an attorney who is LOCAL to your place of business consult with you regarding the model release, BEFORE you start using it. You can't go on the assumption that just because a producer in CA uses a particular model release that the same release would be legal in NY or FL or any other state.

The attorneys also suggested that if you decide to distribute model identification information to your affiliates, that you enter into a legally binding contract, which would then give you legal recourse, between you and your affiliate specifically outlining the terms of the release of photo id information and precluding the affiliate from using that information in ANY way OTHER than that of 2257 compliance.

My programmer suggested that while this might be useful, he thought requiring the affiliates to put up a cash bond for the information would have more muscle than just a contract. The thought of an affiliate losing money for violating the agreement seems to have more teeth. I'm not advocating this position, just tossing it out there. You guys can do what you want.

My programmer is a pretty sharp guy and

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#35

06-16-2005, 02:21 PM

I always thought you couldn't sue someone for complying with a law.
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DWB

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#36

06-16-2005, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by Rui

Cant say I blame her, in fact I can simpatyze (sp) with her...

Nice smart model you have there ;)

Yea, of ALL the models I have heard (we all have heard) say dumb shit like "I'm going to be a lawyer" she was the only one that is actually in law school now. lol

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#37

06-16-2005, 02:27 PM

Lawyers are going to have a very merry Christmas this year.

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#38

06-16-2005, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by Sly

You wouldn't be publishing the private information. You would be transferring the private information to another entity you do business with, whom of which is required by law to have that information.

Whether or not THAT is legal, is another story altogether, haha.

VERY good point there, it wont be "public."

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DWB

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#39

06-16-2005, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by newbreed

My 2257 software programmer attended the FSC seminar in SD yesterday and he said the lawyers there on the panel for the FSC have told producers they must specifically have clauses in their model releases informing the models that their photo id information may be transferred to DOJ investigators for the purposes of performing an official government investigation.

The lawyer also suggested that the model release inform the model that the information could be passed on to secondary producers and that they could absolutely consult with an attorney to get their model release forms updated.

For all future shoots, you bet your ass we will all be doing that. It's my old content that has me worried. I honestly think the models could cause some real problems for producers if they were so inclined.

Someone needs to rally up all the big name LA porn chics and have them file a class action suit aginst the DOJ. Hell, that one girl was just at the WHITE HOUSE for Christ sake having dinner!!!
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emthree

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#40

06-16-2005, 02:37 PM

Look at it this way ...
It's not a matter of *if* but *when. It will happen. Models are looked down on as being a "pain in the ass" ... they have every reason in the world to be.

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3piece chicken Dinner

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#41

06-16-2005, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by Hank_Heartland

Now I'm going to stretch this to the limit

Let's say a big company like Silvercash, Topbucks, CE with 10,000 - 40,000 affiliates gives the info on thousands of models to affilates god-knows-where in the world.

Now they have put out info to affiliates, some of who will do anything from spam to highjacking peoples computers.

Now all this aff has to do is join your program take your content, banners and ads and he can get personal info on thousands of models.

You are going to have model info membership sites popping up like password sites today and how the hell are we going to be able to stop it.

Believe me, this info will get to the surfer if someone thinks they can make a buck on it and then we will all get sued bigtime.

This situation in really going to get fucked and we are the ones who are going to get fucked

Hank I WISH you were streaching this to the limit. That is exactly what is going to happen. There are legit Yahoo fan groups for some of these girls. and TBH anyone who is lonley enough to start a fansite for an online model is a scarey character to begin with , not to mention has waaaaaaaaaay too much time on his hands.

Oh and this is the target customer for this type of site.

and now that you have mentioned it here, I am certain some jackass will start a fake model id site so that all the surfers can educate themselves after getting screwed once and sign up to programs that offer id's.

Last edited by 3piece chicken Dinner; 06-16-2005, 02:51 PM.

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Mako

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#42

06-16-2005, 02:50 PM

We're not talking about future shoots, no shit sherlock, get a new release form.

We're talking about OLD content, and how on earth this is going to be able to be resolved without contacting each and every one of the models and getting new ID consent to release information forms signed...what a pain in the ass.

Sorry to hear that DWB, like most things, the silent lurkers will employ the head-in-the-sand technique to deal with this issue. Glad to see you're up front about it, very interesting thread.
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#43

06-16-2005, 02:51 PM

I agree its a good idea to have a clause about id distribution in the model release, but why is the content producers responsibility to inform the model of the laws and regulations governing her sexually explicit performances? Is it also up to the content producer to inform the model that she will have to pay taxes on the compensation she recieves? What about warning her not speed while driving to or from the photo shoot?

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#44

06-16-2005, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by newbreed

The attorneys also suggested that if you decide to distribute model identification information to your affiliates, that you enter into a legally binding contract, which would then give you legal recourse, between you and your affiliate specifically outlining the terms of the release of photo id information and precluding the affiliate from using that information in ANY way OTHER than that of 2257 compliance.

in theory this would cover your ass.. but the problem still remains, widespread distribution of the id is no good! identify theft, stalking, etc.. therefore, it should not be passed out in the first place!

Originally posted by newbreed

My programmer suggested that while this might be useful, he thought requiring the affiliates to put up a cash bond for the information would have more muscle than just a contract. The thought of an affiliate losing money for violating the agreement seems to have more teeth. I'm not advocating this position, just tossing it out there. You guys can do what you want.

this still won't stop someone from using the IDs for illegal purposes.. nothing will! they could get the IDs sell them to a broker and you could still never prove that they did it.

the ideal solution is ONLY the primary producer should have all this information.. secondary producer should have copies with "real name, real address" execpt birthday blocked out. use of content should link to the primary producer.

i guess only time will tell. the way 2257 is written now.. it definately has to be taken to court. because of these problems, i highly doubt that 2257 will hold up as is. i really don't think sponsors should jump the gun and start passing out IDs. it is too dangerous to pass out..

imagine if sponsors required you to have a copy of YOUR photo ID just to prove that you are over 18 and can legally become an affiliate with them..

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#45

06-16-2005, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by Mutt

I have a feeling models stand a very good chance at winning a law suit against any producer who distributes her I.D's without informing her and getting her written permission.

I don't think the future for licensed content providers in the U.S. is very good, not much better for Europeans because some lawyers are advising their clients that they should not be buying content now from non-U.S. producer over that vague poorly written part of the 2257 law.

Yeah the 2257 law really sucks for the models

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#46

06-16-2005, 03:31 PM

Which side of the sword is sharper?

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chadglni

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#47

06-16-2005, 03:34 PM

A drivers license is NOT PRIVATE INFORMATION. Does she ever show her ID at a casino, gas station, grocery store, or anywhere else? By saying you can't give it out she's putting you in legal danger. Don't want someone to have your ID, don't shoot porn.

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latinasojourn

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#48

06-16-2005, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by VeriSexy

Yeah the 2257 law really sucks for the models

not just the models.

identify theft makes business people vulnerable also, banks vulnerable, goverment agencies vulnerable, insurance companies vulnerable. HUGE problem.

it causes personal safety problems, enables terrorist activity, causes financial loss and inconvenience.

criminals WANT and will buy other people's ID---it is the crime of the century, from thieves to terrorists.

now with 2257 you have not only text ID on computers, you have recent IMAGE ID accompanied with text ID available on thousands of computer hard drives---this is a goldmine for the unsrupulous, and i can't think of a bigger risk to people.

big story today about ID theft, it is everywhere:

http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/16/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes

people just don't understand.
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AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

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#49

06-16-2005, 03:47 PM

Once model's personal info is widely available, there are bound to be problems.

Between my four Yahoo Groups promoting my various sites, I have about 20,000 Members. I learned early on to monitor and moderate/approve all of the posts. I catch clowns trying to post where the models work, go to school, what clubs they frequent, their real names, and in a few instances even their phone numbers.

The new 2257 is going to make the situation even worse.

DBW, sorry to here about your situation. It's just one model, I would dump her from your site and get rid of the problem (or keep her on your site, but do give out her pix to affilate sites).

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DWB

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#50

06-16-2005, 03:50 PM

On the flip side... I'm a model as well. I have been in many of my flicks and ave already been through ID theft once and it took TWO YEARS to get clear. In fact I just posted about that 2 days ago here. What a mess.

I'm going to sue myself if I release my ID. lol
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