2257 Backfiring?
 

We all know that 2257 is designed to attach jail sentences for clerical errors under the guise of fighting the war on CP.

If dozens of site operators are charged, convicted, and sentenced for 2257 clerical errors (non-compliance) and ALL the talent involved is proven to be adult age (the defense lawyers will present the proof at least for sentencing consideration), will this fly in public opinion?

5 years and up for paperwork issues but NO CP whatsover - how many of these kind of convictions can DOJ survive without having to re-explain their 'logic'?

-Dino

Exactly Dino!!

Bottom line.. it is utterly irrelevant that any person over 18 needs be recorded and since this is, by far, the majority of talent, - the offense is "I did not keep my records in a nice order".

It also does nothing towards child protection - does anyong ever think a CP webmaster is the slighest bit interested in anything to do with USC 2257 or keeping records under that code?

Sheesh.. naivety is just an inadequate word...

While I under the purpose of 2257 PRIMARY producers. This whole secondary producer stuff is crap. if the models has proven she is 18 ONCE why is it necessary for ME to prove it? Especially if I wasn't there when the shoot took place. if there is a quesion about her age it make more sense to go to the prodcuer of the original content.

Say 1000 websites all have the same questionable content. Now is the DOJ saying it is wiser to go to 1000 different webmasters businesses and check each ones records than have those same webmaster just put a link to the original producers info and the DOJ could make ONE visit and find the answer.

I think if it was just a matter of webmasters having to have a 2257 page and that page containing the info to the ORIGINAL producers of the content they have on their site, then 2257 wouldn't even be an issue with most of us.

the law is written so that u are guilty until proven innocent.... that won't stand up in court :2 cents:


..

Of all the 2257 threads.. this one is my favorite!

No, the sky IS falling, quit tossing logic around and clouding the issue... :pimp

Tell that to the hundreds of guys in Gitmo.

About a million. The public could care less how many pornographers go to jail.

I appreciate that we all agree that 2257 is plain wrong, but my specific question for this thread is:

Let's assume 2257 continues on course and the arrests begin.

If most of the arrests/convictions are proven (albeit after the fact) to NOT INVOLVE ANY CP and operators are going to jail for clerical errors only (non-compliance),

will the public support this or start to question it (as a tool against CP) after a while?

-Dino

Until they no longer have access to their porn. Which I wish actually would happen for about a month and then see how much they care. Surfers don't care where they get their porn from as long as they can get it. Osama could have a porn site and as long as the porn is good and free they'd keep going back for more.

I seriously doubt that would happen. They put a few hundred thousand plus drug dealers away every year and drugs are still available, actually easier than ever to get them.

No. even though it a fact that the VAST majority of American lvoe porn and surf for it on a regular basis onthe internet, they WILL NOT stand up for the right sof those that rpovide the porn to them often for FREE. The reason is they don't want to look like "perverts" in front of their friends, family and neighbors and they are often conflicted by their own sexuality because of the fucked up rearing a Christian upbringing often causes.

I know that I'm saying if a genie granted me wishes and I wished that no porn be accesable anywhere online or not. Then I demand that those hypocritcal perverts support and demand the government get off our backs and only AFTER that I would give them their porn back. But that's just my dream.

That's the truth. Because when it hits the news, it will not say "Pornographer sentenced to jail for 2257 paperwork violation", instead it will read boldly "___(insert your name)____ ARRESTED FOR POSSESSION OF CHILD PORNOGRAPHY!"

Then your name is mud.

I agree.

If US paysite previews have to go limp (softcore), non-US adult sites are going to gain big time. And, it's not like clicking on a 'foreign' adult hardcore link is being 'evil' to the average surfer - they just want what they have already had (and don't have an issues with it - like people who drank during the (last) prohibition).

Unless, the US decides to put a firewall on its border like in China to protect its citizens from outside porn.

-Dino

Bottom line... the net on occasion is the secondary "benefitter" of child offenses when these offenses are used by CP webmasters and result in photographic material of child abuse.

The head of the queue "should" be the prime target - namely the production of child porn and prosecuting all involved in it under far more serious laws than a poxy record-keeping law.

I hope this is not an indication of how they US DOJ is now going to prosecute child abuse charges - ie, with pathetic record-keeping laws - tho nothing would be a surprise.

Let?s assume this.. The really want to protect children, doing so they created a new standard with the law. Not knowing exactly how things work in our business they made some errors, true mistakes from not knowing exactly what to write.

Now, lets assume like the NY case, they really want to use this law to crack down on illegal porn / childporn and ignore the people trying to run a legit business. Now they may inspect everyone, but again lets think they really have the children in mind. Rather than going after you or me, they attack the people that should be attacked, first..

Those TGP sites will girls that look ages 15-17, the many half ass built paysites / avs sites / cam sites, etc.. Lots have this type of content. Or fucks like the NY guy.. I assume he somehow found a way out of the CP charges and they nailed his ass on 2257. How many more people are there like this? How many webmasters are in the United States haven?t been informed about this law? How many hide in the cracks so we don?t nail them too? A lot, shit loads.. The newsgroups are loaded with CP, P2P networks, groups / message boards, fucking tons of locations, by shit loads of people.

Maybe they aren?t after the honest companies?. Just a thought.

any time 2257 is included in a news story about an arrest or raid, what will it say? "So and So was arrested for not complying with regulation 2257 which was designed to fight ch-ld p-rn0graphyy."

boom. the guy is a pederast in the mind of 'Joe Walmart' and he couldn't care less if he's in the pen even if the guy had published only photos of models over 18.

and since when does this administration give a flying fuck about 'public support'? they are completely above the law and do whatever they want.

I'll say it again... Their sole purpose is to cause undue hardship on adult webmasters in hopes of chasing them out of business... The cp part was just a ploy to gain support from the do-gooders and get it passed..

and it's already been said... A bank robber could give a rat's ass about gun laws...

It's been working fine for years for the IRS...and THAT's all about record keeping too.

The public won't care, since:

a) Nobody sympathizes with pornographers, unless they are victims of terrorists or ethnic minorities, and even then, the sympathy will be lukewarm. You can't expect the American public to believe in justice for all.

b) Nobody knows what 2257 is.

c) Just like the people on the other side of the world that are dying in mass numbers, the American public feels no connection to pornographers, and thus the story will be page 4 material. Now if some poor little girl beats leukemia, her tale is told on every morning talk show, but nobody will pay attention to what happens to the legitimate Adult industry besides the people in the industry itself.

Exactly the government will tell them 2257 is about CP and thus if you are arrested for 2257 violations then the public will conclude you MUST be involved in CP. So where is your support going to come from?

Is prison the only option for a sentence?

Maybe a few fines will be handed out.

What's even worse most think pornographers and cp is the same ...

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

:thumbsup

Ok probation and a fine, You name in the paper. Everyone thining you're involved in CP and are some kind of child molester. Yeah I guess that's not as bad as jail.

Nobody cares about us....

Well that's pretty grim guys.

Unfortunately, I have to agree that historical evidence supports the overall notion that anyone outside the adult biz (even surfers) don't care enough to do anything (there have been and continue to be lots of worse things going on which are unchallenged and left at status quo).

So what are you guys going to do?

PR is a biggie - If any of us made public comments involving 'accountants/embezzlers', 'bankers/thieves', 'missionaries/molestors' implicitly or explicitly suggesting relationships between the roles/abuses, as systemically and deliberately as is the case when the 'moralists' talk about adult entertainment industry operators, we would be sued (even though there are such abuses in each of their roles).

I guess this would fall under FSC turf, but, WHY isn't the adult industry suing major profile individuals for intentionally linking adult biz with CP?

Didn't some talk show host get in trouble for making comments about the beef industry?

It's not like there aren't any clear examples of loud high profile public statements to challenge.

I was sorry to hear that ASACP had changed their name (keeping the same acronym). I thought it was great to finally have an organization which (even by name) made very clear that adult industry biz operators are together on fighting CP. I don't recall what the new name is, but I do recall that it no longer highlights how important this issue is to us as an industry. The new name seemed watered down (and politically correct).

The recent (ancient) case about the 70 something ped charged with '2257' is just the beginning of the 2257 misinformation campaign and this is how (in answer to my own original question) dozens of clerical-related jail sentences will be balanced out with high profile well-placed CP offenses (unrelated to 2257, but great to support the perception of 2257 working).

From the outside (Canada), but not that far away, it seems like FSC is the ONLY group working for adult biz?

Has anyone started a campaign to inform surfers that they are about to be 'unplugged' (from what they have been used to)?

If so, who is doing it and how?

If not, why not?

If you're interested, let's talk about it.

-Dino

Well, I think if many webbies go to jail because of missing records, and there are still the same amount of CP on the net (because those give a fuck about 2257 anyway).... then another incompetent decision can be added to the huge list.