answer to oil - Ethanol (E-85) (flex-fuel)
 

This stuff is 1.50- 1.60 a gallon here and it gets 90% of the gas milage as regular gas. Now if they just made a fun car that ran on it. But very cool that we could just grow our own oil.

Is that the stuff made out of corn and has HUGE gov't subsidies?

Correct sire.

Actually this would be good for both agriculture in this country, and energy. With something like that, they could eliminate these subsedies we pay farmers, and they could chage their crops over to the correct one, making some nice bling.

Then we would not have all of the waste we have now with some of it (crops), and farmers would be able to stay in business, and we could illiminate some of the other dependancies. I am sure there are trade offs, to this, like anything else. But I think the quadmire is something like... people want something that produces NO pollution (like hydrogen) and off foreign oil/cheaper fuel. Not nessesarily one or the other.

I think if you want off oil, they could do it more a less, but not nessesarily something all around more dreamy for Greenpeace and environment. So they are trying to find a way to get energy prices down, find something more abundant for oil companies to invest in, and maybe something not so bad on environment. Plus get thousands of companies to do it w/o losing profit share, or going bankrupt.

:Oh crap

The problem is the gas guzzling cars.
I the US paid the same gas prices the rest of the western world does I don´t think you would see many SUV´s.

And more hybrid cars wouldn´t be a bad idea either :)

I have been reading. this is huge in Brazil. They do lots of stuff there like natural gas cars too. It is 85% ethanol. So we could grow "oil". And it burns cleaner. Why the fuck is this not a national priority? We can spend cash on blowing up Iraq or we could switch cars over.

Without the subsidies isn't it hugely expensive, not very efficient to produce, et al? It just employs a lot of people and keeps states like iowa afloat if I recall correctly.

The blending subsidy is about .08 a gallon. What is the other subsidy?

This is from a Texas congressman's site and he opposes ethanol. He puts the subsidy at .08/gallon. He also claims it will not reduce dependency on foreign oil so his math is suspect.

oops forgot link
http://www.culberson.house.gov/news.aspx?A=49

Fossil fuel will remain our number one source of energy as long as it is the most economically viable source.

Awesome! How much is gas where you are?

This is the only reason I started this thread. I did not know it was being pumped for less $ per gallon. The consumer is paying less. That has to generate interest in the long run.

Ive said this forever and a day!!
Why run gas when we can burn alchohol.

We need to retrofit cars:
Replace rubber fuel lines
need new fuel pump with poly innards
some fuel injectors need to be replaced or some can just get orings replaced
orings on high pressure fuel lines need replacing..

Our farmers can grow our fuel... and not lose their farms. Hey they might
even make a profit...
As production goes up.. production costs will decrease.
If fuel is grown throughout the Continental US, we wont be hurt by weather changes from year to year.. one region will surely suffer another will prosper.
We can become independent from Foreign Fossil Fuels.

Bush... you listenin??

:2 cents:

Big B
CECash.com

I actually do not know what the price of gas is where I am located. I have a gas card and I simply say fill 'er up. I am going to buy it no matter what the price is...so I do not pay attention to the price.

Alternative sources of fuel have been around at least since the 2nd World War...but none are as economically as viable as fossil fuels...at this point in time...including ethanol.

The economic viability of fossil fuels will change as the supply dwindles but this will be at some future point in time.

Just get an old diesel car and run biodiesel in it. You can make it yourself and I've heard it costs about 45-60 cents a gallon. You get about the same mileage as with regular diesel.

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html

Agreed. This ties into the whole American sense of isolationism, which has got us here today, but since WWII seemed to have meddled in with everyone else... it's time we say FUCK OFF to everyone else's problems and do a little internal reconstruction...

Why is it not possible it is now? Whengas was a dollar it makes sense that this was not viable but with gas at 2 maybe thetime is now. What is the fact you have that i do not know? My state runs all of its cars on e85 now. Or tries to.

this was discussed in length last month, what you do about the millions of older cars that will still be around for 20 years from now, that are dependent on gasoline?

Is this different than the bio-diesel that most diesel cars can already / easily be converted to run on?

My buddy in Boulder, CO bought an 02 dodge ram and fuels up with the bio-diesel that's supposedly cleaner burning, better for the engine (lubricating wise?), though it costs about the same as diesel.

Sell them gasoline? I might be older then you but we did this once before with lead and unleaded.

The economists say that...adjusted for inflation...gas is just as cheap now as it was in the '50's.

does it run on solar energy?

And Sugar is cheaper then it was in 1900. I thought maybe you knew something about e85 that made it not viable now. But you are saying if it was you would use it? But since you do not use it is not viable right?

:thumbsup

I'm all for alturnatives to oil.

Ethenol is not as economically viable as fossil fuels for national use...for multiple reasons. Fossil fuels are still the cheapest of fuels to produce on a national scale.

Discover magazine had an awesome feature story two years ago on the topic of converting organic waste into diesel fuel. The process is proven and safe. The only problem is it would require several nuclear power plants across the country to make it commercially viable.

is this statement true?

If everyone was driving fuel efficient cars, US wouldn't have to purchase oil from middle east?

I realize that this is impossible to enforce, but the government shouldn't be giving tax breaks for people driving trucks/SUV's when they're not farmers.

Just a few nights ago...I heard it stated by some "expert" in the energy field that if fuel efficiency for automobiles was increased by seven and one half gallons per mile that the US would not have to import any oil from the Middle East.

If this is true or not...I do not know.

You were watching Real Time on HBO?

That guy did have interesting points.

This is only true because there are not Ethanol refineries all over the country like there are oil... Once we get a few Ethanol plants established, then the costs would start to drop.

Old cars can be converted from gas to ethanol pretty easily and not too expensively

Big B
CECash.com

We import over 50% of our oil. I do not think that was a correct statistic.

The big fear is that China is now consuming more and more oil so we need an alternative as oil is going to cost more and eventually run out. Not to mention the environmental impact.

The feds collect the full .18 a gallon on Ethanol blends but they give back .08 in the form of a tax credit. I cannot find the other subsidies that we provide.

I have a Kia SUV that i am going to try and convert.