Custom/exclusive shooters, how much money are you making?
 

Just had a very intersting chat with a guy on ICQ who is shooting some very nice sets exclusive and was shocked to learn what he earns a set.

Over the course of 3 months we sell a solo girls set 10 times at $35 to $40, go back 3 months and a good set will sell another 5 times, go back another 6 months and the set will sell another 5 times.

20 sales over a year on a set at $35, these are average figures, $700 split 50/50 the shooter gets $350, still owns the set and could place it with other brokers becasue I doubt if I have all the business on the Internet. Plus he might like to sell it to magazines.

This guy is shooting sets $150 a set and he's good. Only problem is he's scared I will pay him the same money.

On Lesbian and Hardcore the figures are a lot higher.

The "Exclusive is the only way" brigade will have you believe that anything non exclusive is flooded on the market. Yet they pay a lot less than it's worth if it was sold non exclusive and flooding the market.

To flood a set on the Internet and it's 1 million feeder sites into 200,000 paysites would be a phenomenal job and mean we would have to sell a set 100 times minimum with every buyer having the right to give it to 1,000 affiliates.

Truth is these guys pay squat, in the hope the producer does not realise one of the reasons the buyer is buying is the way he will make proper money.

We broker for one guy who is with 5 other people, bet he makes more than any of the custom shooters. He also sells to magazines.

Didn't you hear? Theres no money in porn :)

But I think that the guys who sell un-exclusive get more than the exclusive guys, unless they have some really big accounts, even then i still question it.


btw: if your a content broker, drop me your email [email protected]
thanks!

non-exclusive on average will make a lot more just for the fact that it will sell many times over and then you can always make package deals or by the set the options more plentiful for sure

I don't know.

I just shoot exclusive. One model, per client. I might only shoot 3 or 4 girls a month, but with the avarage order being 8k-14k I do ok. :)

There are plus's either way I guess, but with my shooting primarly solo site content, exclusive is really the only way to go, plus, maintaining a content store isnt something I am interested in. I get to work one on one with my client, giving them the exact look they want, even as far as going out recruiting to pick the perfect model for them.

:thumbsup

...OK, i am sooo tired of those "there's no money in porn"...and "i make about 256 bucks a month" answers...uh, oh, also of "if i make less than 2 mils a month i would hang myself", so here are the figures. Bear in mind that i am quite new in the biz, still working on my models portfolio, and trying hard to "loose" my artistic background, cuz it seems that "porn and art doesn't mix well" sooo the number AREEEE..... (don't fucking laugh).... 3.000 - 5.000 $ a month from exclusive sale, that's why i try to put up a website now, and maybe go non exclusive also....

non-exclusive will make a lot more

some sets i sell for 300-500 $ for 3-12 months
Plus sell it to magazines and still owns the set.


You can see sample
http://super-bunny.com/models.htm


I sell reseller rights for image broker plus.

If I shoot exclusive client offer me 130$ -200$ ,for some client 70$ is to much.

I make BIG bucks from custom stuff. Exclusive vs. Non-exclusive there isn't half as much money is producing stuff for public consumption.

But had 1 guy that wanted to see a girl crap herself and pay for the panties.

I hate to say it, but there is big bucks in it and it only took me 30 mins to shoot from start to finish. No editing! No sex! No waiting for a guy to get wood! etc etc.

You make a lot of bling for custom shit. We do it, and while we normally do not recycle it to the site, we retain rights to do so. You charge a lot more, upfront, and be done with it.

We get a lot more requests than we can handle at the moment, but that's why we are moving to content provider. Both to dump those into adult, and filter those into footie.

:thumbsup

how much did he pay for the panties?

I make enough to have bought my car and my HArley cash, my home in LA and 3 office spaces in the heart of the valley. NUFF SAID

$600 euro.
Gave the girl $150
Charge him another $25 for postage... No guarantee on delivery because of the nature of what it is.

I think, Paul, you are thinking one way about "flooding" the market and that is members areas -

Many webmasters buying content nowadays also want that content for fhg's and and content packs for partners to promote their sites.
Take one set sold to (say) weg cash, who put that set 1) into their members area. 2) on a fhg which is going to be used by 3-4 thousand partners and 3) zip that same set as a content pack and that is used by another 3-4 thousand partners on tgp submits, mini site, avs and general free site marketing, then you get the other side of the "flooding" coin.

Take only one large programme using that set and that set has been seen by millions very quickly - Take 2, 3, 4, large programmes using that set, and that set is beyond saturation. 20 webmasters with the same set? I can here the members saying whoot when it is advertised in the members area as a new set... Where is the cancel button...?

It is not as easy to retain members now - Photographers must not only know the niche they are shooting for, but the micro aspects of each general niche. and, as the net gets more and more populated with adult sites daily, webmasters making cash (with genuine sites that is, not the upsell, cross sell, spam the fucking member to death when he cancels type of site) are mainly shooting their own or sorting custom shoots purely and simply because they are giving their members something unique, something targetted, and something to stay a month longer for.

Well - of course, many may disagree - But my way of doing things costs me less in the long run, and I know I get more rebills than programmes many times bigger than mine. So I will continue this road!

BTW - I do like your work very much -

Well if you earn over $2,000 a shoot day then you are all right.

But it all depends on the quality of your work, some guys who try to sell exclusive I would not give $50 a set for. And then some I would give $500 a set for, depends on the shooter and his skills.

But if you can find magazines who will buy digital then $400 a set minimum is for print rights alone. Some sets will go for $1,000

As for running a content store that is an almight job, the programming is easy, it's the constant need for marketing that takes the time.

What I was talking about was brokering, we broker for a couple of guys now and they are with other brokers and earn good money.

It really depends what you are shooting and how good you are. My photography skills are barely adequate, but I'm one of the top 10 teen porn shooters in the world.

Running a content store is a full time job especially in the beginning, but the rewards are massive if you can shoot. $3-5K a month, look at doing that in under a week. Then look at magazine or DVD sales. Everything depends eventually on your skills with a camera.

Becasue the guy who buys off you because you're a great guy is not going to be of any use. The guy who buys off you because you convert his traffic is the guy you need. Some exclusive shooters I'm afrain could not.

But even these guys can make money sellinjg sets at $10, those sets go 50 times.

Selling exclusive or non exclusive?

I make enough to run a 3,000 square foot studio, employ 10 staff, bought a 4 bedroom house and two cars cash. Then take two hoildays a year and never worry if I can pay a bill.

But then life is cheaper here than LA.

HarlotCash Dyker you are talking about the program owners, I'm talking about the content producers being paid peanuts by some programs and some of these are massive programs making good money. Content producers who would be better off giving their content to brokers.

Unique has to be shot custom, but even that if the shooter is good is better sold the DVD companies and non exclusive on the net.

not exclu earns more than exclusive, but niche extremes do pay good

That's a very good point. We sell our stuff to so many companies becasue it's a wide niche that fits a lot of sites. Then the magazines are not generally looking for extreme, they need well shjot stuff that has a broad appeal.

But the niche extreme stuff could be very limited.

Just spoke to someone on ICQ who told me non exclusive did not pay and he was making a fortune selling Boy-Girl Video and Photosets at $2,000 a time. He left crying after I told him we get $1,000 for a solo girl set from one UK magazine sale, then everything else on top.

Photographers shoot exclusive because that's where the demand is.

When you shoot a model yourself to sell in a content store you have to take all the risk. You have to pay the talent, do all the labor, and then "hope" you sell enough sets to make a profit.

With exclusive I pay the talent cost, the photographer does the work, knows ahead of time how much he will make, and everyone is happy.

The BIG content buyers are buying exclusive, which is why so many content producers are shooting exclusive.

On the other hand....there's no reason a photographer couldn't book a girl for me, shoot what I need, and then shoot a few extra sets for himself the same day to put in his store.
Unfortunately being a good photographer doesn't necessarily mean you're a smart businessman. Its the same reason the best techs in the biz don't own hosting companies and the best designers don't own their own paysites etc etc etc.

Lenny the risk is in shooting exclusive.

Because you have 1-5 clients, who are in fact your boss and if you lost one you would be in trouble. I have 100s none of whom would hurt me if they decided to buy elsewhere.

The demand it seems is in non exclusive, simply because there are more people buying non exclusive than excluisve today.

With non exclusive I can afford to pay the model myself, I also know what a girl is worth (subject to market fluctuations) and I'm making a lot more money than the exclusive shooters.

A few big buyers paying $300 to $500 for a set/video for solo, $1200 to $1500 for lesbian and $2,000 to $3,000 for boy girl are not coming anywhere near what I earn from the same work.

You say that exclusive is the way to go because it's not saturated on the Net, now you tell us that the shooters shooting exclusive are better off shooting it. So which one is right, can't be both. Unless you are paying a lot more than the prices I quoted.

Truth is todays surfer is spoiled, the first thing he looks at is the model and the porn. Are they right, is it his niche and has he seen them before? The fact that it's exclusive does not matter if the three are not met.

So if selling a set 20 times, give me more money than shooting it exclusive I know which way I'm going. I doubt if you pay for the image set what we earn from a magazine sale of a set.

Yes there are shooters who cannot shoot porn, pointing a camera at a naked girl is not porn, and these guys approach me all the time to buy or broker their work. I'm talking about people who can shoot a different standard.

Show me the exclusive shooter, with my set up and I may listen to you. Most work out of their living rooms.

Just spoke to a guy on ICQ, he's got some great girls and locations, plus he can shoot. He's working for a couple of programs and would love me to broker conrtent for him after reading this thread.

Problem is he does not have the money to pay the girls, seems the exclusive content business does not pay him enough to get ahead of the race.

Now I can see why Lenny has to pay the talent, the shooter can't afford to. :winkwink:

YARGH! Good thread.

Yes Paul, we all know you are a good shooter and you have learned to maximize your profits shooting non-exclusive.

A lot of that is pretty easy to do when the talant cost where you are located is a quarter of what it here in the states. We wont even get into studio expenses and living expenses. Most all of us would make more per set if we only had to pay a model 200.00 for a day worth of shooting. :)

This thread was interesting until is started sounding like a sales pitch. I shoot 100% exclusive and its NOT because I cant afford to pay for the models myself. Exclusive works for me and its a service of offer for my clients. I can shoot for 5 or 6 clients a month, work at a reasonable pace and earn a great living beside. SHooting non-exclusive means I have to maintain content, run a content store and site which adds a ton of unneeded work to my day.

Point being, most all clients in the niche I shoot for require exclusive. Non-exclusive would never work. Non-exclusive is great if you are looking for filler content and the like, but I think the days of building sites, small or large with non-exclusive are over.

:2 cents:

Something you are forgetting is other distribution streams for your exclusive content and non exclusive - ie dvd, broadcast, mobile, print, etc.

What difference does it make that it costs you more?

In fact if it cost more to produce where you are you should be maximising on the content. I assume you shot Casey, have you shot her on film? Then show the set to the magazines.

Barely Legal up to $2400
18Eighteen $1800
Tight $1800
Club Confidential $1200

Then the UK market, reckon on $800 to $1300 a set, then Europe, need I go on.

Off our store brokered 20 sales at $40 split 50/50 give you $400 for the set, you could also give it to a few other brokers.

Then the video will sell the same amount. Then there are DVD, Video, do I need to go on.

The only reason I can do it is I refuse to shoot for clowns who think they are doing me a favour by paying me $400 for a set and a video exclusive. So they can make big bucks off their sites. Because as they tell everyone the only way forward is exclusive and their sites have it and are successful.

There is no need to run a store if you have not the time. Try brokering a set and video and see what makes you the most money.

And who give a fuck if it's filler or tour content? A buck is still a buck.

Playful Me has the right idea. We produce content and earn more money selling licenses to lots of people.

This whole industry relies upon good pornographers producing good porn, without it there is no business.

So the earnings of a person producing porn for others to market is very important. Drive the market down too much and you end up with content little better than is on freesites.

On the Internet side of porn distribution I'm considered a top pornographer, on the magazine side a good teen shooter. Now tell me why that is? Could it be the market is still getting driven down to the lowest common denominater. Where a guy can pick up a camera, find a local girl to pose nude and then shoot porn.

Amazing thread charly, btw keep us updated how your "paysite-adventures" are going.

Cheers

I never said they were better off shooting it....don't put words in my mouth.

I said its where the demand is.
Alot of photographers used to make a good living getting their sets on web-legal and places like that.....now alot of them shoot only exclusive because its the only way they can make money.

I remember a statement issued by Dave Clark not too long ago about not taking any new photographers on web-legal, because he just didn't see much of a future in the non-exclusive arena.
But I suppose you know more about the content business than him too right?

Every time you troll up one of these threads its only to sell your $30 sets out of your store.....so enough already.

Paysite is going very well. We got a paid partner account on Worldsex and AL4a and had a bucket load of traffic which was converting at around 1:150, not bad for a site that is not fulley exclusive and has so much saturated content. :1orglaugh

Then the pope dies and traffic plummets alsong with sign ups, this week we put the payout up to 50% revenue share and will give a free set with every sign up.

We will also get a program tested for FHGs and I will sit and make up some galleries for affiliates, at the moment we only have the free content.

Had a wicked review on Rabbits Review and getting trafic/sign ups from there.

I need to find some decent boy-girl and girl-girl content for the site, but not a lot of luck so far, but I've hardly had time to look.

That's about it so far.

Do I know more about the content business than Dave Clarke? :1orglaugh

You just lost the argument.

Dave Clarke worked from home, his site was a nightmare, he did not give 2257 documents out, he said he could be relied upon to check them, then posted a forged ID he had checked. The guy could only sell $75 worth of our content over 15 sets.

He basically was yesterdays animal, he was put out of business by guys like me, Photorama, World Wide Content and many many more.

So he sized down because the business has moved to exclusive and the market can't sell non exlclusive any more. I wondered how long it would take before you came up with that.

IT's bullshit and you know it.

If we content providers can't sell non exclusive why is it all saturated content? We are either selling content and saturating the market, and that means more than 10 sales, or we are not selling it and not saturating the market.

Or are you just laying down a line of BS that you're doing great because you have exclusive to influence the affilaites, seems to me two people are trying to sell here.

And you came up with a good point, our 20 sets for $30 offer. This offer will sell 200 times and be taken down. Thats 200 times $1.50 a set = $300 after the set has already made us money in the normal content store, then the bargain basement store and now in an offer.

Seems guys shooting for $400 a set and a video must really be cleaning up.

I don't care if you make a fortune on your sites and pay the guy shooting it $10 a set exclusive, if he's fool enough to sell to you, you would be a fool to take it.

But maybe one content producer will realise EXCLUSIVE works for the paysite owners not the producers.

But the reality is most custom exclusive shooters can't shoot to a decent level and are left to sell on price any way they can. There are a few exceptions.

Shooting_Manic we pay a minimum of $500 a day, and often more for solo and lesbian, for boy-girl it's around $1,000 a day. Add the agents fee, one in four girls, and you are very wrong with your assumption of $200. but as I said if you are paying a lot for models then you need to earn the most back. assuming you have the money to fund a shoot.

Im not really disagreeing with you Charly at all. It's just not my market and when I sell someone exclusive sets ( I normally shoot entire sites ) I have to mean it.

The reason why cost matters is that for me to do what you do we would have to lay out a ton of cash. Where you could spend 2,000 and get a ton of content, 2,000 for us gets my two days with one girl or one day with two models. So maybe 10 sets where you can get 3 times that for the same price. I would have to pay out 8,000 for what you can get for 2,000. Thats when it matter. So, my start up cost for shooting non-exculsive is much great. Why pay that start up cost, when my clients will pay the model rates and I dont have any out of pocket money for talent? We just have a different business model really and your cost are significatlly cheaper.

Yes, I shot that casey site in my sig. Its one of mine. The only reason its there is because i parnter in the as I do a couple sites in that program.

I'm not saying you are wrong at all. This is just the way I do it. It works for me and I get to have more interaction in the site and how they will market it in the end. I like that.

:thumbsup

I see now what you're saying. $1,000 a day means you have to have that money and know you can make it back. I was in thatituation when I started.

A good girl shoot for a day on film could cost a lot more than $1,000. Because the model would cost $500, the film/developing $20 a roll and we would shoot at least 25, sometimes 30 so $500 for film. Then there was make up, $200, underwear, clothing, props, sometimes even a location. To spend $1,000 on a shoot day was normal, to spend $1,500 was not unusual.

Then you had to wait 4-6 months to get paid.

But here's the good side. Would shoot 3 teen sets or two glamour sets. Each set was worth $1200 on the UK market, then $1800 on the US market, EU was only worth tops $600 to $1,000. but a good set would go to Japan and/or Australia.

Then there were second rights, this is why I can't believe in exclusivity being the only way to sell. A year after the set was published in the UK and the US we could sell it again. Big second rights buyers were Swank, Crescent and Fantasy publications in the UK. This would pay anything from $400 to $1200 a set, second rights could be sold again and again.

The downsides were simple. Only shooters at the top of their game could compete, editors did not buy on price, the market has not had a price rise in 12 years in fact some pay less now, you had to wait for your money but once it started to flow it did very reguarly. And above all it's a shrinking market, the most sets I could sell a year was 120 and the Internet is the future.

We still shoot for magazines and do well, but concentrate on the non exclusive content providing because this is where the money is today for porn producers. Tomorrow it might be in a paysite or paysites.

But do you think I would jump from that business to this for $500 a set?

Learn your craft, develope and put enough aside to fund your own shoots and see if brokers can get more for you than exclusive sites are giving. At the moment they seem to be saying they're doing great, while screwing the suppliers of the very thing they need the most.

Ive funded my own for years. Thats not really an issue. I just dont see the point in tieing up my money when god clients will pay for exclusive

I do see your point and for what you do its perfect. I also dont shoot film anymore so selling to Mags isnt going to happen. Plus, I have some things to learn about light before I would feel real comfortable about shooting that type of stuff. With film you need to be dead on with light. 20 years ago I could do it. I shot for automotive catologes back then with 8x10 film. I stopped shooting about 15 years ago and just in the last 3 years have been shooting content, all digital. Not sure I would ever go back to film.

:thumbsup

Just my :2 cents:

Years and years ago all there was to sell to was magazines...worked fine if you're under contract because all expenses were paid plus a nice $$. We also did the 'spec' mag sales, but the 4-6 month wait to get 'paid on publication' was a pain in the butt. Hard to keep checking every mag you submitted too.

Internet came along and any pic set of any girl sold like crazy...to everyone

Internet got competitive and now video and pic sets were needed for scenes...still sold like crazy to everyone.

Reality sites came along and everyone wanted outrageous scenarios, dvd quality, 45-60 min. long scenes, exclusive.

I'm seeing now that a mix of it all, like Charly says is the current trend. Do the exclusive for a few good customers, do some custom for others where you retain the rights. Add in a few niches that you know will sell over and over again. Keep the dvd rights if you can...nice $$$ in that once you have the hookups. Do a few partner deals with big players: you produce, they market.

The content biz has changed frequently and repeatedly...adapt, find numerous markets and keep on recruiting, shooting and selling.

Gregg has the right idea, spreading the sales.

Waiting for the magazine money was a pain, but once you got into the flow you were earnin on an investment you made 6 months back, That is fast in normal businesses.

But what a return on your money. :winkwink:

Then selling the set again and again provides a good buffer. But you had to be good, shooting film is a pain, selling to a client who will pay you the same money whether you are a pro or a newbie means your work has to be as good as the pros and the buyer is looking for the best 10 sets he can find monthly. It is a tough game and very few players in it. But the rewards were and are good.

But retaining rights will pay you more, ASSUMING YOUR STUFF IS GOOD ENOUGH. And this is the big problem, few of the people I get send me content can shoot.

Just chatted with someone who thinks the trick to shoting is doing 12 sets in 3 hours. This includes, I assume, a stop for coffee. :1orglaugh

However thinks I'm talking about stopping totally shooting for the companies who think $150 for a set is good money. No I'm talking about shooting the same girl or different girls and giving the sets to brokers as a different source of income.

If 2-4 brokers can't make you $50 each a set ($200 in total) you are probably best to stick with who you are selling to. If your exclusive clients don't allow you then your balls are in a vice and they know it.

Though one guy did tell me on ICQ his problem would be if the girls are on 10 sites then there is a danger their friends will find out. Problem with that argument is the people they are selling too have 10 times the affiliates and are putting the content on FHGs.

You shot for this market and you need to learn about lighting? I think you could teach me about lighting. Anyway the magazines are not all looking for perfect lighting, they are looking for porn and that can be shot Flash on Camera.