reasons not to use DRM?
 

anyone got good reasons not to use DRM for you videos in your paysites?

I was looking at a paysite review site today and one of the features that they gave of a site that they reviewed is that "There are NO download restrictions...(no DRM)"..

So it's already getting to the surfers that DRM isn't cool.

yeah i saw that on some review sites also

IMHO

DRM is GOOD for protecting quality, exclusive/underused content
DRM is BAD for oversaturated bland content

mb

You saw that info on our site. Based on user suggestions, we started including DRM info (yes or no) for all pay-site listings and reviews a few months ago.

Here's my opinion on the subject...

Why users hate it:

1. Users want the ability to transfer the files to disk or another computer (that may not have web access).
2. Users never want to worry about the video expiring.
3. Users may want the ability to convert the file to another format.
4. Users may want the ability to edit the file (crop it).

Here's why it's better for webmasters to dump it in their members area:

1. Regular buyers avoid DRM, and will cancel right away.
2. There are WAY too many sites that don't use DRM, and that won't change in my opinion. You're automatically empowering your competition.
3. Piracy happens, but fighting it with DRM will do more damage than good. Accept that piracy will occur, go after the bastards spreading it, and don't punish the honest members (which probably consist of 95%+).

I do think DRM is good for VOD sites by the way. I also believe that P2P isn't a huge threat to this business, because the industry can control a lot of the content that is traded and use it to produce more business. I do think DRM is GOOD for use in P2P networks.

My 2 cents.
Rick

reasons 3 and 4 means they wish to violate copyright law!

Thats pretty funny.

The surfers want free porn also.

As DRM becomes more transpearent the user willnever realise it is being used until they save it to there hardrive, which is fine with some DRM solutions.

A downloaded file will verify there membership before playing.
Why allow a none paying customer to download files and use them after cancellation?

> 3. Users may want the ability to convert the file to another format.
> 4. Users may want the ability to edit the file (crop it).

If this violated copyright law, I was unaware of it. I don't see the harm in users editing files for personal use. It would only be a copyright infringement if they re-distributed the file, unless I'm mistaken.

DRM is basically a turn off for the consumer, the best idea is to allow burning the files and copying them a limited number of times (though still requiring the DRM software to authenticate manually with your member's DB). So after expiry the file becomes useless until membership is renewed. The problem being you've got to have content people want to watch over and over again that is worth the membership fee.

Anyone had a user get a naughtyamerica trial? no offense to the guys but their trial subscription really needs to be further explained to the user before they buy it. The trial subscription is basically one video that they select. NastyDollars doesn't do that kind of thing and still has a decent retention rate because of their archive content. It was just a turn-off for the average surfer.

The obvious goal is, give them porn, lots of it and decent stuff and they'll come back. Trying to force a user into subscribing won't work unless you've already reached the above goal.....and then what's the point of DRM when your customers are coming back?

The only way DRM will become transparent is if it was removed completely. The point of DRM is to put restrictions on the files use. It's definitely more user friendly than earlier versions (less bugs), which is good.

DRM also doesn't prevent users from sharing their pw's, which is probably a bigger problem. So even if a user has a password to play the DRM'ed file, it doesn't mean they're a paying member.

I think a user is more likely to renew their membership to a site not using DRM, than a site with it. I've also heard a few webmasters who've used DRM, and ended up removing it when their retention levels dropped.

As far as I know, DRM doesnt work for Mac users.

what do you think surfers hate more streaming files or drm files?

Well 10 years ago if you rent a movie at the porno shop didn't you have to RETURN it? were you LEGALLY supposed to make a copy of it? Because it's the internet the rules should change? of course peole want to keepa movie forever. they want it for free if they got their way. In fact most everyone would want EVERYTHING for free if they got their way. Of course smart people know if EVERYTHING were free in no time there wouldn't be ANYTHING available. Without the prospect of making MONEY a company has no reason to produce a product.

I personally find DRM a pain in the arse when you download a file then need to pay $30 to watch it after your subscription expires.

Am interested to know what effect it would have on chargebacks if anyone has any info?

streaming is worse. :warning

Hmmm renting just ONE VHS tape at the porn shop use to cost me $5 a day. $5 a day X 30 days is $150 a month for ONE VHS tape. $30 a month for hundreds if not thousands of movies is a fucking bargin in my book.

Renting a movie was and still is a lot cheaper than an adult membership. You're also referencing to a time when porn was much harder to come by, costs much more money to produce, and much less producers. You're also comparing a $5 rental to a $20-35 membership.

The point I was making though, is that there's no shortage or pay-sites willing to allow non-drm downloads, and I don't think that will change. DRM in members areas is like TGP2 from yrs back, for those who remember that concept. The idea is to limit users in hopes of gaining more. It's almost always the wrong way of doing business.

Right. One place use to rent movies for $5 but rent 2 and get the 3rd free. I though WOW 3 movies for $10 was a steal. So for $30 I could have gotten 9 that's NINE whole movies. All of which would have to be brought back in 24 hours. So $30 for a monthly memberhsip for 1000's of movies is bargin.

So what if it was harder to come by? Alot of things use to be harder to come buy. Doesn't mean you steal them or expect a company to give you their products for free.

Go to non-porn movie sites. They all use DRM. A memeber that wants shit for free is a member I don't want in the first place. I mean being anti-DRM is like Wal-Mart catering to shoplifters because they are afraid that they will no longer come into their store and maybe one day buy something.

Yes you are right. To restrict the files in use.
Translation to allow play when permitted. Just like Pay Per view on Cable.
One has to be a subscriber to the carrier. No cable, no stream.
Pay Perview on television is $3.95 and requires network subscriber through the cable service up to 50 dollars a month. Cable Networks is a subscription based service akin to a member site.

Ya heard of Strongbox? How about Pennywise? These are security systems for websites to protect members area's from violators. How well versed are you and how qualified are you to review adult sites not understanding the fundamentals?

So in otherwards people were happy taking the content and not paying for it when they have accessed the site in good faith.

You have indirectly also stated that Many subscribers want to edit video?WTF? Ya mean according to what you know about subscribers they like to download movie files to edit them? This does not make sense to and is entirelly new, also remastering works makes it more difficult to capture copyright violators.

That's all great, but the fact is that most sites do not use DRM. If you had a choice which one would you buy, $30/month membership with no ability to save movies, or same price membership and ability to save movies?

I think DRM only makes sense with cheaper membership prices, or really great exclusive content.

You are all being a bit short sighted.

As bandwidth to the user becomes broader he is going to want better and better quality videos..to the point where he will want to master his own DVDs, not something that is possible with .wmv encoded files most DVD players dont play .wmv

check out

http://www.kickassdvd.com

its doing quite well actually and as soon as I can get a reliable pay per download system I expect it to do a lot better.

Your being really short sited if you think buyers of adult will be getting DVD's.
Internet will invade the television bro. Stick to the topic.

Is this your site?

Ya just outlined the point of DRM.
The good stuff people will always pay for, the exhistance of DRM becomes irrelevant factor when it comes to watching what they want to see.
They want to see it and enjoy it they will not mind the fact that DRM is protecting the file.

Again this brings up the point that everyone should be working together to set standards that help one another. If everyone uses DRM than the surfer has no choice. It really is in everyones best interest to use it.

Once again that's like a store not stopping shoplifters so they won't piss them off. I don't care if every store isn't stopping shoplifters I still would.

I agree that surfers aren't really ready for DRM... there are too many sites that don't use it and when they encounter it they're a bit confused.

But in the future that may change... If it gets adopted by the mainstream media and becomes more common

Good point :thumbsup

If everyone is moving in the same direction they have no choice but to follow our rules. Now that said, a certain standard and integrity needs to be set up.

I dont like DRM as a consumer...I didnt like it when it was called DIVX and I don't like it now.

The pay per view model is not a winning one for me...no matter how you wrap it.

So what are your thoughts on protecting your content?

This a must don't you think?

What other solutions have you been looking at?

I am intersted to know.

Thanks

I tried DRM to do viral marketing. It worked for awhile but my returns started to dimish after a couple of months. Surfers caught on fast and started to delete them from the P2P files.

Can you elaborate on this. I am not sure I understand exactly but I am interested in hearing more.

Thanks

DIVX was nothing more than a crack to DVD encoding.
Vaporware that went mainstream. Its junk now.

Get some content, DRM it and put it on Kaaza.

And you got signups from this?

Was this to your own sites or sponsors?

If any of these surfers downlaod mainstream movies they are used to DRM and I don't see those sites removing DRM anytime soon.

as far as protection of my content...it isnt protected...other than by copyright and international law.

will it be on p2p networks...probably...its branded and if they want to wait for it to download they will can I keep the theft reasonable...yes can I stop it...no

DRM cant stop it from happening either....anymore than it could with MP3 files.

until someone comes up with something better than a pay per view type model it wont work for me as a consumer or a site owner.

Taking content DRM wrapping iit and throwing on P2P is so old hat...
If ya didnt ride that wave ya really missed out. There is still money in it though.

We looked at DRM for some of our movie sites but always decided against it becuase of the restrictions for the user. We built our success on pay per download and continually push the fact that the user can download the files to their PC and can watch em for as long as they want.
Its a great sell point and we sell 10 to 20 movies for around 15 to 20 bucks each. we even sell short 7 or 8 minute clips for around 10 bucks. Great for making long term revenue from movies we have already pushed elswhere along with the " we dont use DRM " on the point of sale. 1 final thing we noticed, around 20 percent of users buy the same title at least twice over a 6 month period. Usually down to them deleting the file or just the fact they dont want the smut hanging around on the PC. We make great bling from pay per download - but dont think we would get the same success if used Drm.

Oh man...
Well I am just trying to help ya...
Don't be a horse to stubborn to be leadto water. Read upon it and understand it:)

solonline

Id like to talk to you about what you are using to do your pay per download billing pls hit me up on YIM or AIM south1226

or email me .. [email protected]

TIA

who is using drm and having great success with it?

Great thread. DRM has been used on many sites now for at least a year or more. Would love to hear what their experiences have been.

Let me throw this out there.

Probably the largest (arguably) adult paysite out there has been using DRM for a while now and continues to grow at a staggering rate. Most of you don't know much about this site because it caters to the Japanese market.

99BB.com

DRM (or similar) will be around in some form forever as quality of content continues to improve. Are you going to offer 1080i HD downloadable content unprotected when the time comes?

mb

that is one thing about drm, if you are going to drm your clips at least offer higher quality clips then you would normally give away in your members area.

We've used DRM with great success for almost a year now on OneManBanned.tv
The site has over 35GB of exclusive content encoded at 1000kb/s and the files are downloadable "as one".
There is a big misconseption about movies expiring once the surfer cancels there membership. DRM is very flexible and since the beginning of 2005 we have lifetime licences on all of the movies - meaning the files will never expire whether the customer is an active member or not.
We make it clear on the FAQ page how DRM works so surfers know what to expect. Once the licence has been issued on the first play, the movies play like any other WMV file played on a PC. Sign ups/rebills/chargebacks are no different from our other non DRM sites.
The key to DRM i believe is to have a good amount of quality exclusive content and relax the licence rules a little.
Most of the legal music download sites use a form of DRM and it will surely get more popular and established over time.

depends on the validation url you use.. V7 dont work for Mac users but the old V1 does..

How does this give you a benefit then?

Just looked at it from a surfers point of view.