"Education" is the most successful scam ever.
 

How many people do you know that actually became successful because of their degrees AND are happy with their lives?

Probably very few... and what you may perceive as success due to a degree, in reality, it was probably just dumb luck or some other personal trait, such as confidence or determination.

Even if they meet the "successful" criterion, they most likely work in Corporate America, which means they are in no way, shape, or form "happy".

How many people do you know that, with no college education, became successful AND are happy with their lives?

Probably a lot more.

And how much is spent nationally on getting college educations? 50 billion? 100 billion? more?


Discuss.

What an interesting post. Food for thought, thank you.

BTW how many people actually learnt what they were 'taught' in school and so on?

Most of the high ranking school dudes are just the people with great examtime memory plans.

Interestening topic indeed.

After high school I skipped colege and moved to Europe. Once in a while I meet a few "students" touring Europe and they simply can't stop trying to prove their intelligence. I ask to see their passport (they always hand it over, they always do what they're told) and I rip the cover clean off. They turn white as a sheet and I leisurely walk away. Over the following week while they panic and scramble to get their affairs back in order, scared shittless they'll never get back home, they learn more about life than the four years they wasted at university.

As u said a degree is generally a prerequisite in most large firms. I agree that lots of folks without degrees do very well - but I know a hell of a lot of dropouts who came to absolutely fuck all. The folks who do well without degrees would, I'm sure, have been very capable of getting a degree if they so desired.

Yeah, actually this is what I did. I moved to Europe a year after high school. I really feel that i've taught myself more in 4 years than I learnt in 13 years of schooling.

I think school is just a way to aviod the responsibility of parenthood, and that it is a system well set up to ensure that parents can continue working full time jobs and paying taxes.

I feel that intelligence barely anything at all to do with one's capability of completing any university course.

I'm not going to say education is a scam.. but I will say what my uncle told me once.. College teaches you how to work for other people, and not how to work for yourself.

So if you want to work for someone else, go get a college education... If you want to work for yourself.. just do it.

You should amend your stance to be against 'higher' education. Self Education and basic education are still ok.

Otherwise I agree.

I disagree that univeristy is a waste of time for everyone. It is for a percentage of those who attend, but it is closed-minded to paint everyone with the same brush.

People who attend univeristy just because it is the next logical step should recheck their life, I agree. People who are attending to accomplish a goal in their life are hardly wasting their time, no matter how you feel about their goals.

I went to University and it was the biggest reality check of my life. Parents did not cover anything and I had to work my ass off just to make ends meet for most of the time. It's something that I'm VERY glad i did, no matter how much I will use the science I learned in the rest of my life.

almost as good as Religion

degree=confidence (for some)

You're confusing learning stuff with getting a diploma.

People who go to college and take vocational courses are for the most part wasting their time.

If you want to learn accounting, don't get a University degree in accounting. Get a job at the lowest level in a company's accounting department, and use the job to pay your way toward a degree in the liberal arts or the sciences.

If you do this, it's likely that after four years you will have significant accounting experience that will impress a future employer, PLUS you will have a degree along with a body of knowledge that will add immeasurably to your value as an employee.

Most companies today don't want to hire college graduates with no real-world experience. And they certainly don't want to hire people with only vocational training but no real-world experience. So people whose college degree is essentially vocational training are doubly fucked.

I understand what he is saying - at least 75% of those in an BA (Arts) program at any given university at any time are simply there to "be there". It is a waste of money for them to be there based on that in my opinion. And it's usually not even their money they are wasting - Credit, parents, etc.

It's a shame that University has become simply a "logical step" out of high school. It's not for everyone. Hell, I don't believe it's for 75% of the populous. And my opinion has no judgements based on intelligence or smarts.

I don't feel it's a waste of time.

Unfortunately in today's society, for people with little work experience, it's the diploma that gets you the job and the skills that allow you to excel.

I agree that there is no duplicate to hands-on training. But you're restricting your field of thought to the business world, etc. It's next to impossible for a non-formally educated person to get hired OR move up in the science world / industry without any formal education.

I agree with you. A college degree is not necessary to succeed in most areas. But it is still an absolute necessity to prove qualifications in certain fields like Medicine , Engineering, Aeronautics, etc..

And why do you think that working in "Corporate America" cannot bring you happiness? You are FAR more respected working the corporation than doing anything else. And most people I know are very happy, all got a degree of some sort (and are working the corporate world). The biggest losers I know ar all self employed, are not respected at all (make alot of money yes, but who cares about money) and all lack the opportunities the corp world can give you. So I'm all pro corporation (or running one) and pro education.

Working the corp world will give you FAR more satisfaction than working on your own. (Running your own bussiness is something else, but how many people here run a bussiness? Maybe 10 at most. Running a tgp or a few paysites isn't a bussiness by far.)

I agree, it is a scam, but I think insurance is an even bigger scam. Especially car insurance. Someone hits your car and it's their fault, your insurance goes up. Someone steals your car, insurance goes up. Someone breaks into your car...insurance goes up.

Higher learning is important but in a formal atmosphere, to receive a piece of paper, is not. Unless of course your goal is to climb the corporate ladder and limit your success to what position(s) are available. I didn't even graduate high school (I quit in 9th grade) but I am probably more successful than 99% of my former classmates, who graduated high school and went on to college. I didn't learn anything in school that applies to what I do now; other than reading, writing, and basic mathematics. Most of my knowledge and skills are self-taught. The sad part is, so many people think once they graduate high school or college/grad school, they don't need to learn anything else. Personally, I will continue learning as much as possible for the remainder of my life.

Why do so many people major in business? Are they that lost that they can't consider something more interesting than a degree that they will never use? I'm so sick of hearing people say "I went to college for business" or "I took marketing courses" blah blah blah. True marketers are hustlers and hustlers need street smarts, not book smarts. What you need to know, they won't teach you in school.

College is probably encouraged as much as it is not just for "higher learning", but as a distraction and stall tactic. Most people can do the same job they will get after college straight out of high school but there's simply not enough jobs to go around. So if people go to college for 4 or 8 years etc, that's a way to pace the employment demand. (Just one of my theories)

This post makes me laugh, as most of you can't even spell with a grade school level. BTW "colege" is actually spelled "college".

Get real. Todays college degree is what is needed to get any job. It's the same as a high school degree was 20 years ago. It's just something you need to have. Doesn't mean your smarter, just that you had enough drive to get one.

Perfect example is my wife. She's a VP in a very large company. Wouldn't have even been able to get in the door of the company, as a secretary, without a degree.

As for me. I have a degree in graphic design, and without it, it would have taken probably 10 years to learn what I got in 4.

College does not insure your success, it can however aid in your success. Lets face it, if somone is interested in doing business with two people who are making just about the same offer, chances are they will go with the one that has a basic grasp on the English language and be able to express a coherent thought.

College may not make you succeed in the profession you studied but it can aid you in any business venture you undertake.

I saved money when I switched to Geico :winkwink:

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

BUT think of all the successfull people you know - can you name one of them that would have not completed their scholing if that was what they were motivated to do?

If you're not motivated or driven by something, odds are you won't be successful. While school may not say something about one's actual intelligence, it definately says something about their ability to complete something. And that is important in business.

To add a few cents to the topic... I am on the fence on this one. Education is good, but the piece of paper they give you that means so much to a lot of companies is over-rated.

Of course this whole thread seems to be centered on people who want jobs... I fucking hate jobs. J-O-B - Just Over Broke, for most cases. Fuck a "job". I'll keep my uneducated ass right here and do just fine :D

The highest income people I know did not graduate college. BUT tell me you would not want your kids to go. The mystique of a college degree is ingrained in our psyche. And for the average person they go further and do better with it.

I have a friend who did computer science and works for Microsoft. His wife did Literature and works there too. She was mad because her 401k is 10% of his. His repsonse was that is the difference in degrees. Avoid the liberal arts shit. Dark jedi may think it is cool to have off topic degrees but just drive straight through it makes a difference.

Let's have a look at primary school education and how it deprives children of family bond and how it deprives parents of the need to nurture their own children.

Edukacion is a musht!! I head a grate one!

Most people do need education and a piece of paper that says they are qualified to do what they say they can but only because most people don't have that entrepreneur attitude alot of successful people have. They don't want to take the time or make the effort to go out and learn how to do things on thier own like most of us did when we learned html,php,cgi,c, learned how to gain traffic and get our sites out there and all that basic info thats needed to earn money. From there maybe you had to learn more advanced stuff like server management/security and everything else that you need to keep your site up and running and your members happy. It's just that most people aren't willing to invest the time or the effort to master a skill they can use to make a living so instead they spend their entire lives working for somebody else and some people are perfectly happy with $50,000 a year as long as they have a good house, a car that runs and can afford to feed their family.

One good thing about school though is that it did give people good social skills. Theres no denying that when you compare kids who went to public schools to kids who were home schooled. Looking back at it now school wasnt as bad as i thought it was and im actuall looking foward to going to college this fall and learning some new stuff.

I think you're mixing up education and credentialism. Education is formal learning and that's usually good. Learning to drive is being educated about driving. Learning to read, write, repair, and build, are all forms of education. Credentialism is getting a piece of paper (degree) from an institution saying that you're qualified to work in a given field. It is often overrated.

wow. someone who agrees with me.

i have never wanted to attend a uni. i went with my sister once and I hated everyone there, they had stupid opinions and thought they knew everything because they went to colledge.

it reminds me of my dumbass sister in law. shes worked as a waitress for 8 years and has two degrees, whenever she argues she says 'WELL, I went to college so..." so fucking what? you are a worhtless alcoholic twat with nothing. bah.

My friend is an engineer of buildings and he makes over 2 mil a year. He is happy an likes the work he is working. He knows his work. Sorry for bad english, I am drunk this is Easter :)

Contrary to public opinion, you can be educated, rich, powerful and happy. It's only in the movies where everyone who's educated, has brains and money is an arrogant, miserable jerk.

In reality, almost everyone is an arrogant, miserable jerk - regardless of education.

:helpme

Yeah. Fuck Education.

Without it, the world would be different. I'd work 12 hours a day on a farm and die at 31 of cholera, dysentery, TB, typhoid fever, influenza, yellow fever, and malaria.

College Worth Every Penny - and Natty Light
 

Higher education is not about a fancy looking paper you get at the end. It's about the experience you get working with new people and the challenge of finishing a set goal in time. Those two experiences give you a head start on life.

Sure there are many people that did not attend/finish College and are the best of the best - Bill Gates dropped out of MIT.

What you are paying for is the experience and the life long relationships and confidence you get while in school that makes you better at anything you take on in life. And that is priceless.

Almost none...

Most people take degrees and such because they think "its the rigth thing to do"...

I wonder how of those who claim the degree is a scam are the ones who did not have the perseverance or discipline to get one?

:thumbsup :thumbsup

obviously you have never sold the "drunk college girl" niche.
college is not a waste of time.

so when you get in a jam and have to got to court do you want a good lawyer or a janitor?

or if you are sick or hurt do you want a real doctor or some dickhead?

I keep thinking WTF i am doing in college. Seriously, im not doing any of my work. Just wasting time and $. :1orglaugh

Degrees are a signalling device used by employers to weed out the good from the bad. Two prospectives both have upper 1sts in BSc and MSc economics, except one went to Harvard and the other obtained his by distance learning. The signal is that the harvard prospect is better because it is harder to get into harvard and will, therefore, be more likely to possess the traits and necessary intellect to perform effectively in the organisation.

This is simple personnel economics.

at best working for some large corporation, even if you are happy you're just making someone else rich off your hard work. your colleges might respect you but who else would care?

nice thread with interesting opinions on both sides. i think some people need it and some don't, its that simple.. the u.s. school system isn't for everyone, i actually feel as if it holds people back from their full potential a lot of the time. i think it really depends on who you are and your personality though.

Your = You're :1orglaugh

It is my belief that education is wasted on the young. I've got nothing against learning as a whole, but people who study hoping that once they get a diploma, life will be easy are kidding themselves.

Look at it this way, when hiring someone for a professional position, you would consider all aspects of the person. Not just their qualifications, if the guy with the highest qualification comes in, is rude as fuck, then the bloke with a similar level of qualification comes in, is polite, friendly and funny who would you hire?

It was mentioned earlier, but traits are what seperates you from other people, not a piece of paper on the wall.

Increasing one's knowledge is good, education however can certainly be overrated. I'll take life experience over a head full of booklearnin' any old day. Often in a debate I've found that the person with some real life experience makes far more valid and sensible points than the superior-sounding over-educated bookworm.

My belief has always been that if you want to make someone else wealthy, go get a degreee and work for someone else then. If you want to make yourself wealthy then it's time to fire up your own business and be your own boss. If you can be the toughest boss you've ever had, you'll become richer than you could ever be otherwise.

Not much is as rewarding in life as building up a business to the point of where you can tell your old boss he's fired. :D

Got me.

The only thing wrong with your idea, is that you wouldn't even get an interview for the job without the degree.

All i'm saying is that I think an education can never be a bad thing. My degree has really done nothing for me, as I have always been self employed. Would I go back and do it again. You bet your ass!

Biggest scam list:

1) Organized religion

2) Politics

3) Health care

4) Formal education



:upsidedow

What? Formal education is unnecessary??? :1orglaugh

I am not sure about the whole "drive" part as must of those college kids are just spending four years spending their parents money.

Not only that but it seems like 70% of the kids that leave high school go on to college.

You will have to be there for like 6-8 years to really get a jump.