Just saw Hotel Riwanda
 

Man, that movie was heavy. An awesome movie, just heavy. I really don't remember hearing much about that, but that was 11 years ago. Was I just under a rock then or was it publicized very much. Anyone else see the movie?

yeah i saw it, it was a great move, but hard

but this is the best way show the people how the things really are

I haven't seen it but I'm planning to.

Yeah, it was very good. There was a Time Magazine cover on Rwanda back in '94.

There's a chapter on Rwanda in Jared Diamond's new book "Collapse" which looks at things from a different perspective.

I have been wanting to see that movie - just haven't had time to make it to the theater. I knew it had heavy content, but that's a good thing for awareness when bad things go on in the world.

Awesome movie. :thumbsup

You must have been under a rock. It was the most shameful lack of action on the part of the US (and the rest of the world) that has ever been. Reporting in my view was a little anemic, but then without any effective peacekeepers in the country, what safety would reporters have had?

Following so shortly after Task Force Ranger's epic battle in Somalia (does anyone else realize that TFR inflicted over 1000 enemy casualties that night? -- a resounding military victory that the press turned into a "defeat") the cowardly Clinton administration was loathe to get involved in Africa. Without US leadership, the rest of the world simply let it go as well.

Now, for those of you who would razz me for claiming it was a lack of US leadership, just think about the alternative explanation for the lack of action by the rest of the civilized world, eh?

Great movie! :)

don cheadle is my hero

It was amazing a movie about a massacre could have such little gore. I applaud them for being able to tell a story and show the horror without the blood.

any genocide is horrible

my girlfriend saw it and i saw her afterwards and she seemed depressed and out of it.... was it that much of a moving movie?

i wanna see that movie

from where I can download it ?

Agreed...

l would like to see that,

Think Schindler's List and you are in the right area.


The woman that played his wife was excellent. I wouldn't have been upset if she had been given the Oscar for it.

The only slight comedy moment for us was when the head of the Belgian airline asked who he could call. We all yelled 'you ARE Leon - you sort it out!'.

How could a decisive UN security resolution have possibly passed with US and British interests on one side and French on the other - with both sides having veto power?

I've been doing a little research today and found some great articles on the situation. Guess I must have been under a rock then. Anyone know of any other archives, newspapers, ect. I can go to?

I haven't seen it yet. But am looking foward to it.

I'll rent it

It would have been worth a try. The decisive intervention would have been the key, I think. If France had objected to stopping the slaughter in Rwanda, well, let's just say that I think International pressure would have probably brought them around. In the meantime, a lot of lives would have been saved, which is what's important, right?

I gotta go see that one

No I have not seen that movie yet!!. Anyone wants to send it to me? :)

Ahh of course, the cowardly Clinton administration. Of course, George Bush and his brave group of heros would have rush in and saved the day. Just like they're doing in Sudan right now.

Some interesting US (PIPA) poll results from July, 1994

61% favored contributing troops to a large UN force to "occupy the country and forcibly stop the killing."

62% thought genocide was being commited in Rwanda (25% said "don't know")

80% said that if the United Nations concluded that genocide was indeed being committed, the United States should participate in U.N. intervention to stop the genocide.

not to mention Sri Lanka....

maybe if we could somehow prove they had terrorists like Iraq did we could get the brave, noble, Bush Administration (AKA assclowns) to invade Sudan and Sri Lanka and even Haiti and spread democracy while ousting horrible dictators and terroist elements.

Come on. Someone blame the real culprits. The Hutus.

However we have no need for their resources, so fuck 'em.

And apperently Congo

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0307-07.htm

Is that why Canada didn't stop the genocide? I thought Canadians are proud of their peacekeeping heritage.

What do you see or want as the solution?

Ideally, U.N. intervention. Unfortunately, God stopped speaking to me about 8 years ago so I don't have any solutions. People seemed surprised about the slaughter in Rwanda. The CBC had pretty good coverage. No surprises.

I want love to make it stop btw

you have any ideas? let's throw them out there

I would assume that's why, yes. I suppose some Canadians are proud of our "peacekeeping", just like some Americans are proud of their "liberating". On the otherhand a lot of us realize our government is not a whole lot better in some cases. The main difference is, in Canada, the people have more control over their government.

Canada hasn't done anything about Sudan, and we didn't do enough in Rwanda. I don't know that we had the ability to do anything, but that's not the point.

However, while our government didn't do enough, the only guy doing anything and trying to convince others do stop the Genocide, was in fact Canadian.

http://www.lclark.edu/org/artslive/o...ire.asp.30.jpg

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/dallaire/

Yup. And the Clinton whitehouse specifically forbade their spokespeople and cabinet members from using the word "genocide" to the press. True story. They knew that the word "genocide" was the key obligating them under UN resolutions to intervene, and he was too chicken shit a president to do it. I was livid. That fucking clown actually hid like a pussy behind semantics to avoid stopping the killing of almost a million people in Africa. Nice job, Billy-boy! Here, have a rib.

There were to much bullshit politics involved for the Canadians who were there to be able to do anything. :2 cents:

Book Published by Random House Canada
now available in Paperback.

L Gen. Roman Dallaire. He's Canadian. He went a little insane due to the fact the US chose to ignore the crisis and offered no support.

Rich - on the nose! thanks, I was looking for the link.

In order to be perfectly fair here, I want to add that no one in Washington, Republican or Democrat, liberal or conservative, displayed the courage and statesmanship necessary to bring enough heat on the government as a whole to act. I must admit that the period during which this genocide was taking place was a period in which I was ashamed of my country and it's behavior. There was no excuse.

Again, if the problem was Clinton, why isn't Bush stopping the genocide in Sudan? Why is he telling his people not to use the word genocide in that situation?

Don't you understand, it's not a black and white world, liberal vs. conservative, pussy vs. tough guy. Your government only fights wars to protect it's interests.

There are more than 15k UN soldiers in the Congo now. The largest UN peacekeeping force in the world. Would 100k more help? I have no idea. Maybe not.

In fact America and the World Bank's policy is to destabilize and depopulate Africa, not help or modernize it. That's why no President under the current two party system will ever seriously try to help out Sudan, Congo, or any other African country. That's why they promote misinformation like condoms cause aids to Africans.

Unless there's a people's revolution of a violent dictator... then the US will do some liberating. Good thing they're too hungry, sick, and poor to pull that off.

The simple matter is that all the world's problems and conflicts can't be solved. There were 21 significant armed conflicts in the world last year. The UN has 65,000 troops involved in 16 operations from 103 countries costing billions of dollars last year. You can keep going down the list: Chechnya, Congo, Sudan, Somalia and so on. When those are done, more will arise.

You missed the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq

No I didn't. They are part of the 21 significant armed conflicts.

Fair enough

Fair enough. But the brutality and speed with which the Rwandan genocide was taking place called for emergency action by then-President Clinton. The rapidity of Rwanda's genocide was FAR greater than this seems to be. I admit I'm not familiar enough with the Sudanese situation to make blanket statements, but it doesn't appear to be unfolding with the ferocity of the Rwandan situation, nor has the press covered this story to quite the same extent. However, I'll cop to the fact that something does indeed need to be done. Even though our military is a little stretched right now, and the political situation ie, the fact that we would be fighting Muslims in yet another theatre, do seem to make for a different situation from the US standpoint. Perhaps the State Department's actions will be enough to get things moving, but if not, I'd call for military intervention.

By the way, don't ever condascend to me that way. I've beaten your ass in every single discussion we've ever had. And follow your own advice, eh? --

I saw the movie this past weekend and can still barely wrap my mind around what I saw...this should have been the Oscar winner instead of the overrated Million Dollar Baby...amazing acting, writing and production...it was one of those movies that just stuck with me after I'd left the theater...

Couldn't agree more. Last year it was House Of Sand and Fog that I felt that way about. This year I really think they were especially robbed of best supporting actress if not best actor.

Do you have like, ANYTHING to back this claim up, or did you pull it off the top of your head? Now really, please give us a link that cites hard evidence, discovered documents, something.

The whole world can't be summed up with a two page article on the internet my friend, the real world isn't that simple. If you want to learn about the WB and IMF's policy for Africa I suggest taking a university course, or do a lot of reading. Unfortunately not everything can be explained to you in a five minute CNN summary or internet article.

Of course, we'd all be thrilled to hear what your idea of the World Bank's Africa policy is. I'm sure it's based on minutes of research.