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-   -   Are Mac and Bumble a cheaters? (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=416294)

nata25 01-13-2005 06:45 PM
Are Mac and Bumble a cheaters?
 
Periodically we subscribe to some paysites to see a spirit of the times in the photography. We do it within 5 years, and now first have tried macandbumble.com also. Obvious that we buy trial membership only, but hope it is a allowable practice even for surfers.:)
So, I am inside! ...Real 80% of content are unaccessible due to the "full membership required". From the rest - about 50% are unavailable as "coming soon". As a result, I saw less, than in free site! As an any mentally sane man, I have demanded refund, and tried to explain siteowner his problems. What I got in answer? - threatening to add me (LOL) to total blacklist for all paysites... I was confused and try to explain to Mac and Bumble men, that such way is not better decision in honest business... Am I wrong?
But all mentioned above is not a big problem and reason to proclaim. But next my reply ...vanished from their ticket system (wonder!) ... and instead of refund, my mailbox start to get a SPAM with "ton of new features" from them! Is it a boorish method of business or just a agony?...
Always very sorry when beautiful project are in the dirty hands... Hope, I am wrong.
P.S.: Trust me, I don't care as to my $4:))

Big E 01-13-2005 07:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nata25
Periodically we subscribe to some paysites to see a spirit of the times in the photography. We do it within 5 years, and now first have tried macandbumble.com also. Obvious that we buy trial membership only, but hope it is a allowable practice even for surfers.:) So, I am inside! ...Real 80% of content are unaccessible due to the "full membership required". From the rest - about 50% are unavailable as "coming soon". As a result, I saw less, than in free site! As an any mentally sane man, I have demanded refund, and tried to explain siteowner his problems. What I got in answer? - threatening to add me (LOL) to total blacklist for all paysites... I was confused and try to explain to Mac and Bumble men, that such way is not better decision in honest business... Am I wrong?
But all mentioned above is not a big problem and reason to proclaim. But next my reply ...vanished from their ticket system (wonder!) ... and instead of refund, my mailbox start to get a SPAM with "ton of new features" from them! Is it a boorish method of business or just a agony?...
Always very sorry when beautiful project are in the dirty hands... Hope, I am wrong.
P.S.: Trust me, I don't care as to my $4:))
I'm having a hard time understanding what you're saying, but I believe the gist of what you're saying is that you oppose trial memberships? Sorry you feel that way, but we feel that we aren't going to give content away to people who are only paying $3.95. If you would have upgraded your membership, you would have seen everything. What's wrong with charging people to view content? That's the business we're in.

Veterans Day 01-13-2005 07:20 PM
Hes sayin you dont give shit on trials as far as content, alot of content is listed as coming soon and you jammed him with spam as a revenge tactic for telling you, your site sucks, not to mention the phony blacklisting threat Thats how I read his engrish :1orglaugh

Big E 01-13-2005 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veterans Day
Hes sayin you dont give shit on trials as far as content, alot of content is listed as coming soon and you jammed him with spam as a revenge tactic for telling you, your site sucks, not to mention the phony blacklisting threat Thats how I read his engrish :1orglaugh
Well, it's a TRIAL membership.. you get access to about 100+ sets, but you need to upgrade to a full membership in order to see more.

As for the blacklisting threat, he threatened to charge back. I told him if he does, his card will be blacklisted and he may have trouble joining other adult websites.

http 01-13-2005 07:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big E
Well, it's a TRIAL membership.. you get access to about 100+ sets, but you need to upgrade to a full membership in order to see more.

As for the blacklisting threat, he threatened to charge back. I told him if he does, his card will be blacklisted and he may have trouble joining other adult websites.

At what point are signups counted?

When the surfer stays past the trial?

Big E 01-13-2005 07:34 PM
No, we pay on a trial.

Edit: He's speaking from a surfer's point of view. If you select a trial membership, you don't get full access to the site unless you upgrade or recur.

media 01-13-2005 07:36 PM
Yo! BigE! How did that client pan out at our party??

Hit me up on ICQ man.. 84700583, Would like to talk to you about some stuff..

Big E 01-13-2005 07:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by media
Yo! BigE! How did that client pan out at our party??

Hit me up on ICQ man.. 84700583, Would like to talk to you about some stuff..
All good bro! Just sent an auth request..

garce 01-13-2005 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big E
No, we pay on a trial.

Edit: He's speaking from a surfer's point of view. If you select a trial membership, you don't get full access to the site unless you upgrade or recur.
Sounds fair to me.

Spunky 01-13-2005 07:46 PM
M&B have some of the best content out there

media 01-13-2005 07:48 PM
Damn.. Send me a message or re request please.. something buggered up with icq whe I tried to add you..

AmeliaG 01-13-2005 08:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spunky
M&B have some of the best content out there
I agree they have some nice-looking photography. Unfortunately, in my experience, and the experience of a number of people I know, they don't pay on any joins, trial or otherwise.

http 01-13-2005 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeliaG
I agree they have some nice-looking photography. Unfortunately, in my experience, and the experience of a number of people I know, they don't pay on any joins, trial or otherwise.

Don't pay on ANY joins?

iBanker 01-13-2005 08:37 PM
This guy signed up for a trial membership. Keyword: TRIAL. Which means you get TRIAL level content. It was already said once here, and in my opinion, said correctly. Upgrade to see it all.

Then he threatens to charge it back? Trust me Big E, you don't want this guys business anyhow.

AmeliaG 01-13-2005 08:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by http
Don't pay on ANY joins?

I know webmasters with traffic which should be deadon for those folks, whose traffic works just fine for high quality photo sites in general, who can't sell that Bumble stuff at all.

I know my personal experience was that they seemed to convert very very very surprisingly poorly and disappeared my stats including joins and told me it was "an upgrade" and acted like I was being unreasonable not wanting to promote a program in the future when they had not paid me for past promotion.

Your experience may vary.

Libertine 01-13-2005 08:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big E
Well, it's a TRIAL membership.. you get access to about 100+ sets, but you need to upgrade to a full membership in order to see more.

As for the blacklisting threat, he threatened to charge back. I told him if he does, his card will be blacklisted and he may have trouble joining other adult websites.
It's a PAID membership, and it certainly isn't made clear on the sign up form that the one day membership is a limited one. In fact, it is just listed as 1 among 3 cc options, and it says "$3.95 for 1 Day", not "$3.95 for a 1 Day limited trial".
http://www.macandbumble.com/sites/blue_tour/join.html

If I joined that site as a surfer, I would sure as hell charge back. Yours is apparently precisely the type of site that makes surfers think all adult sites are out to scam them. Congrats.

Big E 01-13-2005 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeliaG
I know webmasters with traffic which should be deadon for those folks, whose traffic works just fine for high quality photo sites in general, who can't sell that Bumble stuff at all.

I know my personal experience was that they seemed to convert very very very surprisingly poorly and disappeared my stats including joins and told me it was "an upgrade" and acted like I was being unreasonable not wanting to promote a program in the future when they had not paid me for past promotion.

Your experience may vary.
I think I remember conversations with you, but it was a while ago wasn't it? If it was a while ago, and you mentioned upgrades, it was probably like July or August 2002, right? If so, that was when we were switching affiliate software (always a trying time).

As far as conversions go, I will always be upfront with people. Most traffic does not convert at Mac and Bumble. We are a unique niche - that's just how it is. We have a good group of affiliates who have the kind of traffic that works with us, and they make great money.

That's the reason you don't see BumbleCash doing booths or sponsoring things at shows - most of the traffic out there will not work at Mac and Bumble. (shrug)

Your traffic didn't convert with us - fine. But don't accuse us of doing something like erasing joins or shaving - that's just flat out false.

http 01-13-2005 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeliaG
...

Your experience may vary.

It doesn't :Oh crap

Big E 01-13-2005 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkworld
It's a PAID membership, and it certainly isn't made clear on the sign up form that the one day membership is a limited one. In fact, it is just listed as 1 among 3 cc options, and it says "$3.95 for 1 Day", not "$3.95 for a 1 Day limited trial".
http://www.macandbumble.com/sites/blue_tour/join.html

If I joined that site as a surfer, I would sure as hell charge back. Yours is apparently precisely the type of site that makes surfers think all adult sites are out to scam them. Congrats.
What is a trial? Different meanings for different folks:

I argue that a trial is a membership done on a provisional basis in an attempt to determine if you want an actual membership. At least that's the way we look at it.

I don't know why the adult industry insists on cutting its own throat by conditioning the users to expect the world for $3.95. We don't plan on doing that, and I would suggest others not do it either.

We spend at least $100,000 per photo shoot (3-5 shoots/year), and we're sure as hell not going to recoup that cost $3.95 at a time. People want to see our content? Then let them pay.

NETbilling 01-13-2005 09:12 PM
Big E is a stand up guy with great content and an excellent program.

Mitch

AmeliaG 01-13-2005 09:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big E
I think I remember conversations with you, but it was a while ago wasn't it? If it was a while ago, and you mentioned upgrades, it was probably like July or August 2002, right? If so, that was when we were switching affiliate software (always a trying time).

As far as conversions go, I will always be upfront with people. Most traffic does not convert at Mac and Bumble. We are a unique niche - that's just how it is. We have a good group of affiliates who have the kind of traffic that works with us, and they make great money.

That's the reason you don't see BumbleCash doing booths or sponsoring things at shows - most of the traffic out there will not work at Mac and Bumble. (shrug)

Your traffic didn't convert with us - fine. But don't accuse us of doing something like erasing joins or shaving - that's just flat out false.

Uhm, are you saying you remember the "upgrade" that erased my stats and joins or that such a thing would never happen?

I'd ask you what traffic you think does work for your "unique niche" of pretty girls photographed well, but I don't expect a straight answer from you on much of anything.

Libertine 01-13-2005 09:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big E
What is a trial? Different meanings for different folks:

I argue that a trial is a membership done on a provisional basis in an attempt to determine if you want an actual membership. At least that's the way we look at it.

I don't know why the adult industry insists on cutting its own throat by conditioning the users to expect the world for $3.95. We don't plan on doing that, and I would suggest others not do it either.

We spend at least $100,000 per photo shoot (3-5 shoots/year), and we're sure as hell not going to recoup that cost $3.95 at a time. People want to see our content? Then let them pay.
It doesn't matter what a "trial" is, since you use the phrase "$3.95 for 1 Day", not "trial".

Now, clearly, this is not about what users should expect for $3.95, it's about false advertising. Since you don't inform the user that the 1 day membership is limited, and you promise things in the tour that are not included in the 1 day membership, the user is completely right if he charges back, because you *are* in fact scamming him.


Now, you can reason all you want about how $3.95 isn't enough to keep your business running, but it doesn't matter. You may think that $3.95 is too little for loads of content, but that doesn't matter either. In fact, the only thing that matters is what you promise the user versus what he actually gets.

If you're selling a limited trial, just call it a limited trial. How hard can it be to tell your customers what they're buying?

Big E 01-13-2005 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeliaG
Uhm, are you saying you remember the "upgrade" that erased my stats and joins or that such a thing would never happen?

I'd ask you what traffic you think does work for your "unique niche" of pretty girls photographed well, but I don't expect a straight answer from you on much of anything.
Did this occur in 2002? If so, I vaguely remember it (long time ago). I will look back through emails during that period to find out exactly what happened.

Well, you probably aren't going to listen to my answer but I'll give it anyway: the traffic can't come from explicit sources. If you're sending a surfer from a page that has explicit content, it's not going to convert at Mac and Bumble. The niche is people who enjoy looking at beautiful women without seeing their pussy - it's that simple. Don't answer me why (conflicted feelings is about the best I can come up with) but that's just the way it is. It took us a long time to figure this out, but we understand it pretty well.

Big E 01-13-2005 09:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkworld
It doesn't matter what a "trial" is, since you use the phrase "$3.95 for 1 Day", not "trial".

Now, clearly, this is not about what users should expect for $3.95, it's about false advertising. Since you don't inform the user that the 1 day membership is limited, and you promise things in the tour that are not included in the 1 day membership, the user is completely right if he charges back, because you *are* in fact scamming him.


Now, you can reason all you want about how $3.95 isn't enough to keep your business running, but it doesn't matter. You may think that $3.95 is too little for loads of content, but that doesn't matter either. In fact, the only thing that matters is what you promise the user versus what he actually gets.

If you're selling a limited trial, just call it a limited trial. How hard can it be to tell your customers what they're buying?
I actually though we had the word "trial" on the join page, but I guess we didn't. I get so used to referring to 1 day memberships as trials.

Fair enough - I just added the word "trial" to the join page.

aico 01-13-2005 09:32 PM
Trial memberships not giving full access to all the content is very common and very smart. Socal Coeds does this as well, and from what I hear, they do very well with it. I plan on implementing it on some of my sites as well.

Dirty F 01-13-2005 10:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkworld
It's a PAID membership, and it certainly isn't made clear on the sign up form that the one day membership is a limited one. In fact, it is just listed as 1 among 3 cc options, and it says "$3.95 for 1 Day", not "$3.95 for a 1 Day limited trial".
http://www.macandbumble.com/sites/blue_tour/join.html

If I joined that site as a surfer, I would sure as hell charge back. Yours is apparently precisely the type of site that makes surfers think all adult sites are out to scam them. Congrats.

Yup, what he said.
"$3.95 for 1 Day", not "$3.95 for a 1 Day limited trial".

Clean up your act, your scamming the surfer and ruining it for other sites.

Far-L 01-13-2005 10:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franck
Yup, what he said.
"$3.95 for 1 Day", not "$3.95 for a 1 Day limited trial".

Clean up your act, your scamming the surfer and ruining it for other sites.

First of all... Big E is one of the most honest and has some of the highest integrity of anyone I know in the biz.

Second... the difference between saying Trial vs Limited Trial is pointless nonesense. If what M&B wants to give away for $3.95 is 100 sets then that is their prerogative to do as a business. That is legit. That is not misleading at all.

Thirdly, I have massive experience with customers and that is not going to be an issue. I looked at a pregnant site today that did not have a stitch of preggo content inside though it was hyped on the tour. That is what is going to piss off customers

Last... customers still get to see what they have, and they get to see that there are plenty of updates on the way. That is what surfers want and will pay for.

iBanker 01-13-2005 10:52 PM
I wouldn't say its pointless to define it. But the again, I wouldn't say Big E was TRYING to intentionally mislead them either....

Can't you guys just cuddle and get it over with?

RottenPug 01-13-2005 10:52 PM
It is their choice how to advertise their membership options, the chargebacks/customer response is the punishment and/or reward for those choices.

If you don't like how they do business, don't do business with them. They aren't in violation of VISA/MC regs or any US laws, so there's not much to be done other than the hating going on in this thread. :2 cents:

SmokeyTheBear 01-13-2005 11:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RottenPug
It is their choice how to advertise their membership options, the chargebacks/customer response is the punishment and/or reward for those choices.

If you don't like how they do business, don't do business with them. They aren't in violation of VISA/MC regs or any US laws, so there's not much to be done other than the hating going on in this thread. :2 cents:
I kind of agree. I dont think its right from a surfers standpoint , but i'm not a surfer. Its just a gimmick to convert the trials better.

Unless you lie i can't see how you could charge that back or if you have the right to. They dont specify how much content you get or if you get FULL access. Looking at it from a webmasters standpoint or from someone who intentionally signs up with no intention of keeping the membership yes its shady , but why should they get free porn, . The trials just give you a short example of what you will recieve.

I hate to use cheezy examples , but it would be like your local gym selling you a week trial and then telling you , that you cant use the spa unless your a full member. It would make you want to have a full membership , OR piss you off and go to another fitness center.

aico 01-13-2005 11:08 PM
It's a fucking TRIAL membership, not a 1 Day membership... what part of the word "Trial" is it that you guys think is misleading? They try it out, get a taste of what the site offers and can decide whether they would like a full membership or not. I see absolutely nothing wrong or misleading with this at all.

aico 01-13-2005 11:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear
I hate to use cheezy examples , but it would be like your local gym selling you a week trial and then telling you , that you cant use the spa unless your a full member. It would make you want to have a full membership , OR piss you off and go to another fitness center.
I know LOTS of gyms that do that. Full members get the use of the Boxing gym, free aerobics classes, Towels, lockers, etc etc etc... so that's a pretty bad example.

Paco, of Large Cash. 01-13-2005 11:21 PM
It all sounds like someone accepted the trial offer; accessed the site (tested or tried it out); got pissed cause he wanted the full meal deal (did not read the TAC or TOC); most likely contacted the support person and demanded something like full access or suffer a chargeback (assumption on this one). When the reply containing the blacklist threat was received he went to defcom really pissed and hello.

See Cig 01-13-2005 11:26 PM
huh??......

Kid Vegas 01-14-2005 12:04 AM
You want fries with that too?
 
For a $4 trial membership. you get access to 100 full model galleries (containing all exclusive photo sets) plus other site content. You also get a full preview of what is available to you as a full M&B member. For some full memberships on some sites you don't even get 100 photo galleries, let alone exclusive photo content like M&B is offering. For $4, you also get to see everything that will be available if you pay for a full membership. Sounds like a fair deal to me for a measly $4.

That is a fine join page and tour you have there Big E. My compliments to the chef.


Oh, and nata25...look into trying to use some adverbs now and then. It makes communication in the English language so much easier for the rest of us. But that's just Kid V's 2cents. :thumbsup

sharpx9 01-14-2005 12:11 AM
sig spot :D :1orglaugh

TheGoldenChild 01-14-2005 12:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spunky
M&B have some of the best content out there

Agreed!

And M&B is a great site I highly recommend them if you have model traffic-

TheGoldenChild 01-14-2005 12:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Far-L
First of all... Big E is one of the most honest and has some of the highest integrity of anyone I know in the biz.

Second... the difference between saying Trial vs Limited Trial is pointless nonesense. If what M&B wants to give away for $3.95 is 100 sets then that is their prerogative to do as a business. That is legit. That is not misleading at all.

Thirdly, I have massive experience with customers and that is not going to be an issue. I looked at a pregnant site today that did not have a stitch of preggo content inside though it was hyped on the tour. That is what is going to piss off customers

Last... customers still get to see what they have, and they get to see that there are plenty of updates on the way. That is what surfers want and will pay for.
FAR-L we never had a safety meeting in Vegas this year :-((
I saw you for a hahahahahair of a second-

Congrats man - I heard from a little birdie today over at ABC NEWS you have a new air date of Feb 11th with my homie Rick Saloman on the same show :-))

Did she call you tell you that?

Man what a great interview that was with Rick...must see TV

nata25 01-14-2005 03:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big E
Well, it's a TRIAL membership.. you get access to about 100+ sets, but you need to upgrade to a full membership in order to see more.
Heh, any LL provides thousands sets for free. Moreover, these "100+" sets are the most unsuccessful. But, that's all your deals. I told only about your threats, refund denial and a SPAM in response to my request.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big E
As for the blacklisting threat, he threatened to charge back. I told him if he does, his card will be blacklisted and he may have trouble joining other adult websites.
Please, let's be a honest. You told me literally "I will credit you back (means refund, not bank's chargeback!), but I will also submit your information to our industry blacklist..." . That is a methods I hate! To intimidate a surfers... And don't put a good face on things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iBanker
This guy signed up for a trial membership. Keyword: TRIAL. Which means you get TRIAL level content. It was already said once here, and in my opinion, said correctly.
If you wish to play with words, let's play...
I never subscribed for "TRIAL", it was very clear understandable "1 DAY TRIAL ACCESS" but not "ACCESS LIMITED TRIAL".


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