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Class Action Suit against iBill?
I'm just so tired of iBill. Anytime I call, they either have no answers or they pass me over to somebody's machine.
Since September 15th, they have made 1 payment out of the 6 that they owe us, and when Jan 1st rolls around, that will be 7 payments in arrear. They told me that: those who stuck it out with them, they will reward us. They told me that in Nov, and on Dec 1st, it looked as if they were back on track and keeping to their word in regards to payments. But when Dec 15th came around and they started posting rhetorical news on their site about why they aren't paying us (rhetorical in the sense that they posted a lot about nothing: how they've been in the biz for 9 years and how they are committed to the industry - yet they never once mention why they aren't paying us, what has happened to the money they've made since they've moved over to GKard and when, if ever, they plan on paying us). I'm tired of having to call up my bank and make excuses as to why I'm going to be late with my mortgage payment this month. I'm tired of not being able to buy presents for anyone this Xmas. I'm tired that I haven't been able to buy a ticket to Toronto to see my new baby born nephew. So I've spoken to a few people - some say I should try to work out a class action suit with other webmasters. Some others said it's not worth it. I'm curious, what do you guys think? ps - I love how the guy who is in charge of it all is 'out of the office' for the holidays. Hope he's having fun with our money on his little vacation. |
I know someone who is trying to do that..hit me up on icq and i'll pass along the info.
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Class action??? Doubtfull ... This is a problem affectig a small group. and involved in porn ...
I personally would settle for 50% of what they owe me, right away tough... CareConcepts has pulled out, and the seed money with them... FirstData holds about 8 million ( according to Ibill ) and will try to fuck them out of it on contractual clauses, so fucking us.... Move on ... |
best of luck with it :drinkup
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keep us informed , we may be interested.
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Forrest1967:
There are some problems with any action. One is that time may be against "conventional action". iBill can cease tomorrow and that's a case screwed (along with costs). The other issue relates to research and whether there are actually any assets in iBill to call upon, - what exactly are their debts (at least the known one's) and whether this is even enough to cover the cost of anything worthwhile. Believe me, I've started and some folks are checking it out now. There *may* be other more immediate courses of action with the sole aim of debt recovery, - but I can't say yet. Agree with you on the comments by iBill - too embarassing. Nothing they say means anything. It is all talk and no result - even the mythical promissory notes. Who knows, but I smell this is close to bordering on criminal - and, I smell iBill know this. PS BTW ... When iBill read this - I'm still waiting for a response to the blatant lies which have been confirmed by others to be untrue. Full settlement would also be handy. |
Just a bump cos iBill fully deserve it for lying.... again.
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glad you spell your name with 2 RR's
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Having another?? :-) Seriously... it ain't the money any more - it's the principle! This lot are no more than a very amateur joke... |
you could just leave them, join someone that cares and continue making money
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And who cares if it's porn? I pay my taxes, I get my model releases. My job is just as legit as the guy who grabs my trash every Thursday. If they stopped getting paid for their work, trust me, the garbage would be piling up on your street right now as they'd all be in court bringing action to those who owe them money. To Webby: you have some interesting stuff to say and I agree with you that iBill can cease and desist tomorrow, but that's the chance I would rather take than wait for iBill to decide when they deem it's right to pay the money they owe me. Thing is tho - their website is still up and they have all this GKard flash stuff all over the place which means they are definitely trying to entice new webmasters to join up with them. Just think of all the new sites opening up as they've spent countless hours working on their site, paying their models, and then finishing it off by adding their fresh new iBill code. I really don't think iBill intends to close their doors, but they also don't intend to treat us, their clients, like adults as none of their lower echelon customer service reps can answer one single question concerning our money. Webby, you mentioned of other ways other than a class action suit. Are you willing to share? |
Everyone just chill out and relax. We all know what happened when the Feds stormed the Branch Davidian cult complex. Mass carnage. Noone was saved. :BangBang:
First Data will pay them. They will receive some new funding. By the middle of next year, this will have all blown over. Ibill will have reinforced itself as the lead brand in the credit card processing space. The government doesn't like porn and its pressuring the credit card companies heavily. But there are ways around this. Stay calm. Sit tight. Talk to your reps. Stop upsetting everyone else - it only makes it worse and increases the chance of everyone getting nothing. |
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A class action in this case is completely inappropriate. It would take years for the case to even get that sort of status and any money would be long gone by that time.
Who are you going to sue? I bet you guys don't even know the names and addresses of the people who are lying to you. This is all blowing smoke. In Ibill's defence I still believe they can pull through this. They still have their EU processing business and Gkard will probably work out. This is not the same situation as WSB or Globill. The main issue is that they have no revenue to pay their USA clients and they wont until they get the money from First Data. Paying the USA clients with EU revenues is clearly a mistake and I'm guessing they wont do this again. I'm still sending signups and I feel it will work out. I got to admit the lack of communication from them for a week now is not good, and despite the optimism I feel everyone should have a plan b for dealing with this. |
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They still are billing in the US all the rebills and a bit of new business... Till FirstData unfreeze the funds, as a US webmaster, I expect Ibill to pay me my share ( commission off - reserve taken) of my rebills... So it is a myth that the US are paid with Euro money and/or viceversa. Us webmaster could say the same, that Euro are paid with US money... My 2 cents ( WTF is that smiley !!!! ) |
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Hi, since THIS was your first post, I'd like to say GO FUCK YOURSELF!! Now in response to what you said.. GO FUCK YOURSELF!!! :321GFY That is all... |
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Remember, these are real people your fucking with, and Karma is a bitch when it comes back and hits you |
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It's one that has no money, lies to it's clients, allegedly claims to issue payments but don't and can't find a pen to sign mythical promissory notes. That alone is a decent indicator of what faith the management have left in their business. Why do they do all this? Because there is nada money in the bank even to pay the current balances and they know they have nada hope in hell and currently flogging themselves around banks in the hope of linking up with a retarded bank manager stupid enough to tide them over for another month. Do you seriously think iBill is processing anything near what they did in the past? :-) Nope! First Data will probably not be dealing with iBill but a liquidator while he clears their shit up. |
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Hmm...I remember an almost identical post being on here about 6-9 months ago like yours. And it is a BLOW job all right. |
My sources tell me that payouts from ibill should be back to normal within the next 5-7 years...
just hold tight till then. |
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when you have a shitload of rebills stuck in ibill... switching to someone else is like starting from scratch again.. |
i have nothing to say but good luck with it!
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Another thing that REALLY irks me with iBill is the news... or the lack of news.
When they owed us cash on Dec 15th, their post looked something like: Quote:
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oh... and GKard is here. Now that's good news, isn't it webmasters? ... 3 things bug me about these posts: 1) In the same breath, they say they are having difficulties with the payments yet they are still on track to paying us. Huh...? If they were on track with the payments, they would never have been late in the first place. 2) GKard - they posted all this 'good news' about GKard. However, I can show you my 'full' email box of clients who have signed up to my site, then cancelled their rebill yet only to find that they are still being charged once they see their credit card statement. I have another 'full' email box of clients who tried signing up, were declined, couldn't get into my site, I didn't see any money... yet... a few weeks later they see a charge on their credit card statement. I even have one guy who tried to sign up 4 times to my site in one day, was declined all 4 times, yet on his statement, GKard charged him 4 times. So not only is iBill fucking me with my money, they are fucking with my clients money as well. I really do NOT enjoy emailing apologies for someone else's fuck ups. 3rd) The lack of posts. For some reason, those over at iBill think that 'no news, or very little news MUST be good news'. Honestly, they would definitely reduce the amount of unhappy phone calls they'd get from pissed off webmasters if they posted news. And I mean news everyday with some truths as to what is going on. Yet they don't say a thing on their news page (it's been a week since they've posted anything new) and they make sure to keep their client service people in the dark. I'm just a small company yet I do treat my clients with as much respect as possible, letting them know what's going on with their money when they ask. Lately, however, with all my unhappy GKard sign-ups, I feel like I'm just another iBill service rep as I email them 'I'm sorry, I don't know what's going on with your money'. |
Should be fun for them at their booth at internext...
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You can find a lawyer to sue almost anyone for almost anything.. This is America.
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ibill is holding 250k from me and wont give it up.. fuckers need to go rot in hell.
and this was mainstream too.. not adult |
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i dont know about a class action but i would contact legal advice and see what the options if any there are
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A few things , if you start a class action suit and the only people that get paid are the lawyers. I wish ibill would post more info but lets be real they havent ever been quick on giving out info even when they were paying on time. I think that the new person is right that they still have eu and gkard . Alot of people pulled out from them that is a hit. Their operating expenses have to come first if they are to continue. It sucks for us waiting to get paid but the longer they last the better the chances are of getting your money. End of march is the end of the 6 month holding period for first data so that money will be freed up. If you cant pay your bills its time to think of other options til the money starts flowing again.
To start law suits : A: will not get you your money and they cost money to start B: will create expenses for ibill where say in a month they could be a steadier ground. Now they are paying all kinds of lawyers fees to defend against law suits. Where say in 60 days everything maybe solid creating more costs could drive them into bankrupcy and then we dont get dick. The problem is the recurring model makes you bonded to whatever processor you choose. If there were no recurring it would of been interesting to see what the third party processing business would of been like. |
Remember at the end of the day its in their best interests to pay you. They probably want to pay you more then you want to get paid. If they cant do that they are all out on the street and in the times we live in the street is a mighty cold place
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I must admit that I am amazed at: - The amount owed to you ( fucking a lot ) - That you used them ( or any other 3rd ) fpor mainstream. All my mainstream ( music, hosting, books, etc...) are direct merchantS accountS , only adult with them, Paycom and a Euro Biller... Good luck, but legal route is a dead-end. |
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and part because the partners wanted ibill to handle CS crap for everything. after i told themnot. welp i guess they learned an expensive lesson. now have a real merchant account and all cs is in house.. *i need a gun to head smily now*
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i have to grudgingly agree w/ Tony404 regarding the likely repercussions from an actual class-action lawsuit against iBill, however i think that singular lawsuits are in order at this point for those who are owed really large amounts of money... waiting too long for them to pay amounts that large seems like it would get more and more dangerous the longer you are left hanging when a company seems to be floundering this badly.. :2 cents:
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http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/e/redeemer.gif |
I think it would be interesting to have one of the lawyers, the ones that pitch us relentlessly at Internext shows, post in this thread...would be cool to see legal options. I think it's fucked that Ibill still seems to have the *fuck with us and you wont get shit* power when it seems no one has got shit anyway. Just really messed up how they dawg'd everyone...have a lot of friends really screwed cause of iBill.
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To those seriously considering legal action just remember, this thread is full of very little boys with popguns who know nothing about the law, have never run a proper business before and who always liked to scream loudly when they found a smelly lump in their diaper.
The big boys are sitting tight, moving on with new business and keeping themselves informed. |
Taniwha:
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Personally I don't give a shit about US law - lawyers do that for me. Tho there are questions as to whether US law actually applies in some instances. I've also ran more businesses over years than ever the net was heard of. Like probably most, I also have moved on and already dismissed iBill. However, there are plenty more webmasters here who are entangled with this lying company and have substantial rebilling. Some are small, others more substantial. Frankly, the "big boy" stuff is irrelevant since several are what you could describe as "big boys". Basically, you have a company that failed thru their own mismanagement and inability to even see potential problems by just having one bank in the US, First Data. That alone is not even a sane commercial decision. There is also the matter of why First Data pulled the plug on iBill. If First Data are in the wrong, why have iBill not commenced action for recovery of funds, but pleading with First Data instead?? Then we have the lying about payments, constant lying. We have US webmasters who were promised some form of security in promissory notes which iBill, once again, failed in delivery. We have a number of webmasters who have not been paid in months, yet get more bullshit. Frankly, this is a company on the verge, not just of a civil action, but a criminal one. Tho there is possibly *some* hope of recovery, but this is not a company many will trust again. I'd want secured funds/insurance policy from iBill deposited into the hands of a third party to be paid in the event of a future demise, before ever considering dealing with them in the future. Unless iBill do have some magical recovery - there are going to be a number of webmasters taking action for recovery of their membership records and any funds owing - if such funds still remain and have not been sqaundered already. |
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*All* third party payment processors should have indeminity insurance to cover losses in the event of their liquidation or any other ceasing of business. Whether this is wholly paid by the processor or shared cost with webmasters, - that is a point for discussion. Any webmaster who is owed money from iBill who would not be willing to contribute a percentage extra on costs, needs the iBill they have and enjoys gambling :-) |
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I was told in Nov. that I will see my money SOMETIME in the next 365 days and if I wait it out I will get 4% interest on it. Problem with that is MY credit card interest is 10 % .
If I am not mistaken I think you only need 12 or more people in the state of Ca. for a class action suit. |
This is Scotty,
First of all I hear Penthouse's stock is 7 cents a share right not to good Care Concepts back out of the deal on December 3rd to buy Ibill for numerous reasons from xbiz The Justice Department is investigating Deerfield Beach, Fla.-based iBill in an antitrust probe along with two other large adult processors. The probe is seeking to determine whether the two competing online adult payment providers, as well as iBill, collaborated to set fees and if so, whether practices are anti-competitive. Penthouse told XBiz last month that it believes potential legal claims relating to iBill are in the tens of millions of dollars. http://xbiz.com/news_piece.php?id=42...eral%20medi a Im looking for other intresting news now that may intrest you all that I had read about the new owners of ibill. The first data excuse is starting to run dry that worked for the first month. But now that they have gkard and everything there is no excuse for not having funds. Everyone is cancelling all their members as we speak now after the missed check for the december 15 th after they said payments were on squedule nove 1st on. How the hell can they secure capital now, they couldnt last before and now the money is drying up more and more... doubtful it will get any brighter... Of course they will most likely bury their name Ibill and resurface as Gkard and in 2006 all the newbies will be saying Ibill Rocks cause they wont know the history. Lets not forget that Paycom was Epoch.... Excuse the spelling errors but in a hurry Scotty Le |
http://xbiz.com/news_piece.php?id=25...n ternational
Media Billing purchased the unit of Atlanta-based InterCept Inc. for $700,000 in cash, $800,000 in a short-term loan and the assumption of $22 million in debt. Media Billing, formed to purchase iBill, is owned by iBill?s former chief executive, Garrett Bender, and Jason Galanis. Galanis told Forbes that he is only acting as an intermediary for a ?handsome fee? in the iBill deal, not as a principal, on behalf of Luis Enrique Fernando Molina, who is the majority stockholder of Penthouse International, a Galanis business associate and Mexican hotel developer whose family controlled Pepsi-Gemex, the largest independent Pepsi bottler outside the United States. But Forbes said Galanis is more deeply involved than he lets on. Galanis described himself to Forbes as a ?part of the investment banking team? that took Penthouse magazine public in 2002, then helped Molina in a deal in November to put another $107 million into Penthouse in a real estate/equity swap. He is the son of John Peter Galanis, who bilked investors of $400 million before he was sent to prison. Jason Galanis has never been convicted of a crime, but served as chief executive in 2001 of EGX Funds Transfer (formerly known as Incubator Capital), a once-publicly traded financial processing outfit |
Jason Galanis and his brother and business partner Derek were arrested as part of a big Drug Enforcement Agency bust of a San Diego ecstasy manufacturing and distribution ring, Forbes said. Derek Galanis was convicted and sentenced to 11 years in jail, but charges were dropped against Jason Galanis.
Jason Galanis has also been identified as recently as last fall as the only person associated with Penthouse Financial, a separate company that controls Penthouse?s website. Galanis now says it was more of a licensing deal, and that the contract has since been terminated. Forbes said that the fact that First Data, iBill?s merchant bank, would have to sign off on any deal that hands over a treasure trove of sensitive credit card data to Galanis, or whomever he purports to represent, doesn?t sit well with the conservative Greenwood Village, Colo., company, which also owns Western Union, TeleCheck and now Concord EFS. First Data has been shopping around its more than $1 billion porn and high-risk merchant portfolio, made up mostly of iBill and a handful of other large adult online payment intermediaries like it, Forbes said. The deal, announced late Monday, ends a chapter for credit card processor Intercept, which purchased iBill in 2002 for $104 million. IBill said that it shed the unit as part of a plan to focus on its core business of outsourced tech solutions to community banks. |
I am in for a class action suit!
I am also ready to fly to Florida after the convention to collect my money in person! |
I wish you guys good luck :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup
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sure you can sue Ibill and you will win
that leaves you with a problem....collecting. you can attach thier assets....oops they dont have any leaving you in the same place you are now. my advice sue to get your rebills thats the only thing you stand a chance of getting from them. If you are still processing with Ibill you are going to get what you deserve....fucked. move on and hope they pull out of it...THEN sue them for what they owe you....they are prolly going to file for bankruptcy anyhow so cut your loses.... my 0.02 worth |
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