Bush's War Just Got Personal
 

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- At least two members of Iraqi interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi's family have been kidnapped at gunpoint from their home in Baghdad, amid conflicting reports from government officials and sources close to the family.

A group called Ansar al-Jihad has claimed responsibility for the kidnapping on a Web site.

The group demanded the release of all Iraqi prisoners and an end to the attacks on Falluja within 48 hours. It said the hostages would be beheaded if its demands were not met.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/...nap/index.html

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I woke up this morning and heard about this situation and had mixed feelings. My first thought (sorry to say) was that finally the terrorists got it right. Enough of beheading those that are there simply to help - you want to change Bush's or any political powers mind - try doing what Moore did - ask the politicians to offer up their family for war and see what type of reaction you get - we knew they wouldnt sign because then the war would become personal.

This puts the Prime Minister who is Bush's puppet in a very difficult situation - allow 3 of your own family to die or demand that Bush get out of Dodge city Iraq. No doubt Bush would have had not only all the troops out but they would have swept the streets of american chocolate bar wrappings if his own daughters were threatened - now its getting PERSONAL.

The war had a face for many of us - but now it has for the politicians. I only wonder if I am right or wrong to see this as a evil twisted blessing that terrorists are now going after those who make the decisions on a personal level?

Bush's war got personal when Bush said "Saddam tried to kill my daddy!" as an excuse to go to war.

yeah i read that earlier... it was one of the most jawdropping headlines i can remember reading in a while....

a PRIME MINISTER's family abducted.... like WHOAH

Ummmm.....Ok. I guess by the same token you would think it was good if someone from PETA kidnapped one of your family while they were eating a hamburger....so that you can get a good personal feeling about the plight of animals.

or maybe it would be good if greenpeace members kidnapped someone from your family while they were filling up an SUV with gas....so that you could be a personal feeling about the destruction of the enviroment.


I'm really not sure that I agree with kidnapping and killing civilians. I was in the Army, and I served in combat, and I personally see a difference between killing combatants and deliberately targeting civilian non-combatants. Personally I find the terrorists to be cowardly brutal animals with no honor.


But, hey. Thats just my opnion.:2 cents:

Im not in agreement with any war - just that I felt that the terrorists were now targetting those that make the decisions rather than innocent civilians that polticians dont give a shit about either way. We are statistics - acceptable losses in a war - but when it comes to politician family members, statistics are thrown out the window and the demands are looked at more closely. If a victims family had to sacrifice for a war they didnt want, then surely the same can be said for the people who made the decision to go to war - that they put their own interests at stake, they dont become immune from war either.

i bet the Prime Minister is torn between choosing his family or be guided by the US.. either way, his decisions will affect both countries

Ouch, that is big news. Will be interesting to see how it ends

exactly my point - I feel sorry for the guy because its family - but he made the choice as did Bush to get involved, innocent people had no choice.

Guaranteed he wont be making the speech - "we wont negotiate with terrorists and we feel sorry for the family, but the war must proceed if we want peace" speech. Now that its personal it will be, "for god sakes take someone else, not my family member - I'll try and stop Bush, I never wanted this war, it was only to make his family more money"

:thumbsup Good post!

There is a huge difference between civilians getting caught in a firefight, but targeting civilians intentionally is another matter all together. It doesn't make sense - it's not gonna change the thoughts of the local Iraqis who just want this to end, or the policy of the US. And bombing their own pipeline does nothing to help their cause and only damges Iraq further.

The end should be published on the Ogrish.com website... keep checking it.

They always publish a video on their site when things come to a head.

It was bound to happen at some point. This gains them the media attention in their own country and will definetely get Prime Minister Ayad Allawi undivided attention. But let's see what happens.

:thumbsup so very true - I am waiting to hear america's response to this, if the terrorists decide to behead them - america is going to have a very pissed off Prime Minister on their hands - he will blame Bush for killing his family when the truth comes out that they never needed to be there in the first place and this whole war was to benefit Bush's family and not stop terrorists or Bin Laden

which btw Im sure is laughing his ass off right now making more travel videos

Sadly I think it will be less interesting and more sad than anything...


I hope I'm wrong but the chances of the US backing out of Fallujah is less than slim to none...



:(

losers and the threads they start always make me laugh.:1orglaugh

I refuse to find any upside in anyone's family being captured by terrorists.

I am against the war - very much so. But you walk a very dangerous line by looking at this in any kind of good light.

My heart goes out to Alawi, regardless of whether or not he's a 'puppet'. I would feel the same about it if it was Bush or Rove's family as well. There is a difference between political/ideological differences and the reality of having your wife and daughters beheaded.

I can understand having a moment of being misguided on this - maybe. But look at it this way: what did the wife and daughter do to deserve being terrorized and murdered? If it was Alawi himself in their hands, you might have a theoretical arguement - but not really. These actions are simply reprehensible.

It's his family. The terrorists deserve nothing but contempt for this.

They are toast, Bush couldn't give a rats ass about it.
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Edit - not his wife and daughter.

"But Allawi's office Wednesday said it was aware of the abduction of two family members -- Allawi's cousin, Ghazy Allawi, 75, and his cousin's daughter-in-law. "

Just correcting that - the point I made still stands.

Yeah, since the beggining :warning

I am not in disagreement with you - I hate war, and definitely feel that terrorists are reprehensible - the point I am making is that those who make the decisions dont give a rats ass if it was an innocent civilian - they are the ones who send thousands to their deaths - they not only have to take responsibility for their decisions but if they are going to play war - then they must expect that their noses are going to get bloody, until now - Bush and other politicians like him see this as a card game with as much disregard to life as the terrorists do.

:thumbsup

Things changed with Bush ....

Coming from a so superior force is far worse than from iraqis defending their honor and country ,,,

quote:
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On Sunday, Marines said they would use the curfew to their tactical advantage, effectively designating any and all moving civilian vehicles to be free-fire targets. Normally, US troops are expected to establish that a target is hostile before engaging. But Colonel Mike Ramos told National Public Radio that US Marines have been relieved of meeting that requirement.

http://newstandardnews.net/content/...amp;itemid=1208


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that quote took me off guard - I would hate to be in the troop and have to fire on civilians

Being ex-Army myself, I agree with you 100%.

and now the army is being told they can fire on civilians - how do you feel about that? Both Terrorists and Bush dont view civilians as untouchable anymore - there is no honor in killing a woman carrying her baby

Not to disagree that the willful targetting of Civilians is wrong however the Curfew is for Law-abiding Citizens:
At a press conference, Allawi told reporters that the curfew in Fallujah is to begin at 6 p.m. local time on Monday.
Those likely breaking Curfew's are going to be the bad guys, with very few exceptions.

Robert I love you man, but here is what has to happen now...we have to FUCK THERE SHIT UP over there, since we are there, as one solder put it "RELEASE THE DOGS OF HELL" ...and then get the fuck out of there.

:2 cents:

I can't comment on the ROE, Rules of Engagement, since I don't knwo exactly what they are(and unless you were apart of the Op Order, you don't either)but I can tell you that its been military doctrine for years to put civilians and non-combatants lives higher priority than your own as a soldier.

thats what he gets for being a puppet.

did you read the thread ...

The Fourth Geneva Convention plainly states, "Civilian hospitals organized to give care to the wounded and sick, the infirm and maternity cases, may in no circumstances be the object of attack, but shall at all times be respected and protected by the Parties to the conflict."


Pretty far from the flowers and cheers expected by your brilliant commander in chief...

As usual, US diplomacy is comparable to an elephant in a crystal shop...

Whatever good could have come out of this invasion is gone.

I suppose your right, Im not a soldier at heart and would find it difficult to even consider killing another human being. Anytime that someone is threatened and justice is twisted to serve dishonest politicians - the hairs on the back of my head go up.

but the mentality of a soldier I suppose is radically different than my own - although I am a strategist and war games are a hobby - being a soldier and deciding to pull a trigger is fortunately something I wont ever have to face in life.

yet I have to admit that our freedoms have all been won with blood

Hospitals likewise lose that protection if they're being used by Insurgents to run operations from, and are being used as shields.

I can tell you that during desert storm the Air force dropped leaflets telling the Iraqis how they could surrender....and one of the rules was that you could NOT take prisoners at night, and the leaflets told them that they would be fired upon if they approached us in darkness.

The reason is that at night you cannot tell whether or not people are completely wired up with explosives. Everyone will have been told not to approach the checkpoints at night, so the chances are that a car coming at you in the darkness may very well have explosives packed in it.

The Army isn't saying to TARGET civilians, they are saying to everyone that there is a curfew, and for the safetly of the troops, anyone violating that MUST be considered a threat.

this war is fucked up

he can't do anything about it... it's impossible to pull them all out anyways withing 48 hours... it takes 2 weeks for a command to get through to anyone when you're asking to see a doctor

IN all honesty though they won't pull out even if it were bush's Daughters... you can't... he's committed to a war he's going to have to end it

and is it officeially war?