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Thats fucked up really.. -
This bullshit war is so wrong on so many levels.Comment
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There is a huge difference between genocide and the killing of civilians by accident. Genocide is when you set out to destroy an entire race, similar to what Hilter did to the Jews. The United States Marines is not killing Iraqis by the tens of thousands by sending them to gas chambers.Herschel Savage
Brooklyn, NYComment
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... no need to, you shot them on their streets.Originally posted by RocHard
The United States Marines is not killing Iraqis by the tens of thousands by sending them to gas chambers.Last edited by uchase/webpry; 09-25-2004, 05:08 PM.Comment
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Oh boy ...
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Have you ever played paintball? It's about as close to combat as you can get. At any given moment, no matter how well concealed you are, you can be hit.Originally posted by uchase/webpry
... no need to, you shot them on their streets.
Now imagine walking down a crowded street with a loaded machine gun and at any moment you can get shot. The only difference is your not gonna get a welt from a paintball, your gonna die. Your walking down the street and you have kids comeing up to you asking for gum or chocolate, and then suddenly your fellow Marine walking next to you goes down becasue he was just shot in the neck.
This is a war zone, and warzones have civilians in then. The Marines aren't walking down the street shooting people at random; They are dealing with threats and engaging in fire fights.Herschel Savage
Brooklyn, NYComment
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So who was it that made it a war zone?Originally posted by RocHard
This is a war zone, and warzones have civilians in then.
And what was the reason again?Comment
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That guy is an idiot.
"You see a kid pull out an AK so you kill him, and then discover the weapon didn't work, isn't that wrong?"
Fuck him. What should he do? Wait until the kid pops a cap in his partner's ass?Comment
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That's so messed up. No one can even get a chance to speak up without getting ruined anymore. Sad.Sig for sale. ICQ: 163-545-054Comment
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People who defend this "war" seem to forget that the (latest) justification for this "war" was that we're somehow "saving" them from Saddam, or ourselves from "terrorists", or some such crap. But how can you listen to this interview (or any of the news from Iraq) and not understand how many more enemys we are making for ourselves, when every single day soldiers with OUR FLAG on their sleeve are gunning down people in the street.Comment
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It is good that he has left the Marine Corp...he is a danger to the troops that serve under him. His use of the word "genocide" is totally inappropriate. Not every one can handle combat...and he couldn't.When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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agreeOriginally posted by theking
It is good that he has left the Marine Corp...he is a danger to the troops that serve under him. His use of the word "genocide" is totally inappropriate. Not every one can handle combat...and he couldn't.
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i also agree!Originally posted by theking
It is good that he has left the Marine Corp...he is a danger to the troops that serve under him. His use of the word "genocide" is totally inappropriate. Not every one can handle combat...and he couldn't.Comment
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the whole situation there is complicated and out of hand
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It's not combat when you're shooting unarmed civilians.Originally posted by theking
It is good that he has left the Marine Corp...he is a danger to the troops that serve under him. His use of the word "genocide" is totally inappropriate. Not every one can handle combat...and he couldn't.
Comment
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Bottom line, war in urban areas fucking sucks for everyone.Comment
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"Genocide" is perhaps not the word - "war crimes" are appropriate.
But that is not the only type of war crime that was committed, was it?? There are plenty more....
If you think troops are enabled to handle this - they are not.
If you think the "commanders" and instigators of "policy" are enabled to handle this - they are not.
It is little surprise some in Iraq "hate" the US - they will be hated long after they "escape" out of the place and for many decades.
Why don't they quit calling people "insurgents"? There are surely some "terrorists" hell bent on shit, but more likely Iraq people wanting to kill the fuckers who killed their families. Let's get real for once and quit the bullshit labels.XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.Comment
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It is. Every war unarmed cilivians are killed as collateral damage...and frequently are targeted...as was done on a massive scale in the 2nd World War...on a lesser scale during the Korean conflict...and on a similar scale during the Vietnam conflict. This is done by all combatants involved and currently the Iraqi's are intentionally targeting civilians foreign as well as their own people. For the past several months they have been killing a much greater number of their own people than the coalition forces have.Originally posted by CamChicks
It's not combat when you're shooting unarmed civilians.
Un-armed civlians die in war...every war...since the the very first war...and for your informantion it is civilians that is currently the enemy in Iraq. The coalition forces defeated the military and overturned the government in the first three weeks of the conflict.When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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So you consider the 9/11 victims to be collateral damage?Originally posted by theking
Every war unarmed cilivians are killed as collateral damageComment
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I agree with you, but we have killed close to 15k Iraqi civilians. I don't think we can when a war if we turn the people aginst us. I think it's getting to the point that the adverage Iraqi would just rather have us leave and to let them figure out how to deal with it.Originally posted by RocHard
There is a huge difference between genocide and the killing of civilians by accident. Genocide is when you set out to destroy an entire race, similar to what Hilter did to the Jews. The United States Marines is not killing Iraqis by the tens of thousands by sending them to gas chambers.In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.Comment
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The "insurgents" are composed of foreign fighters...former baathists (many of which will be put on trial when if they are captured)...follwers of a couple of Ayatollas (that are attempting a power grab)...loyalists to Saddam/Iraq...and those who hate Americans...for whatever their individual reasons. The estimated number of "insurgents" range from 10,000-50,000...which represents a very small number compared to the 27,000,000 population.Originally posted by Webby
"Genocide" is perhaps not the word - "war crimes" are appropriate.
But that is not the only type of war crime that was committed, was it?? There are plenty more....
If you think troops are enabled to handle this - they are not.
If you think the "commanders" and instigators of "policy" are enabled to handle this - they are not.
It is little surprise some in Iraq "hate" the US - they will be hated long after they "escape" out of the place and for many decades.
Why don't they quit calling people "insurgents"? There are surely some "terrorists" hell bent on shit, but more likely Iraq people wanting to kill the fuckers who killed their families. Let's get real for once and quit the bullshit labels.When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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you really follow the party line to the letter don't you..Originally posted by theking
The "insurgents" are composed of foreign fighters...former baathists (many of which will be put on trial when if they are captured)...follwers of a couple of Ayatollas (that are attempting a power grab)...loyalists to Saddam/Iraq...and those who hate Americans...for whatever their individual reasons. The estimated number of "insurgents" range from 10,000-50,000...which represents a very small number compared to the 27,000,000 population.In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.Comment
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No I do not...and the reasons are obvious...with the first reason being that the target was intentionally selected for destruction.Originally posted by Joe Citizen
So you consider the 9/11 victims to be collateral damage?When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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What party line would that be?Originally posted by crockett
you really follow the party line to the letter don't you..When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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Do little iddy biddy cute lil babies die in war? Yes
Do troops make mistakes and people die?
Yes
Sorry to break this news to those of you not aware of the REAL FUCKING WORLD , but welcome, your on the road to enlightenment!Comment
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So was Hiroshima... so was Nagasaki...Originally posted by theking
No I do not...and the reasons are obvious...with the first reason being that the target was intentionally selected for destruction.Comment
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I don't think they consider foreign civillians as civillians.Originally posted by theking
It is. Every war unarmed cilivians are killed as collateral damage...and frequently are targeted...as was done on a massive scale in the 2nd World War...on a lesser scale during the Korean conflict...and on a similar scale during the Vietnam conflict. This is done by all combatants involved and currently the Iraqi's are intentionally targeting civilians foreign as well as their own people. For the past several months they have been killing a much greater number of their own people than the coalition forces have.
Un-armed civlians die in war...every war...since the the very first war...and for your informantion it is civilians that is currently the enemy in Iraq. The coalition forces defeated the military and overturned the government in the first three weeks of the conflict.-uno
icq: 111-914
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MojoHost - For all your hosting needs, present and future. Tell them I sent ya!Comment
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You are wrong. I'm sorry Roc. We were killing by the 10,000s in the first Gulf War. Civilian death estimates were over 120,000 during the 30 day air war. 10,000s of innocent Iraqis also died in this current war.Originally posted by RocHard
There is a huge difference between genocide and the killing of civilians by accident. Genocide is when you set out to destroy an entire race, similar to what Hilter did to the Jews. The United States Marines is not killing Iraqis by the tens of thousands by sending them to gas chambers.
Today, Iraqis are dying at a rate of 50 plus a day. Why do you steadfastly believe that we can't commit evil? We are an evil arrogant regime. Instead of hunting for Bin Laden, the true enemy of the U.S., we fight in Iraq while the Taliban and the warlords have retaken Afghanistan. Do you actually believe the Pentagon reports when they claim U.S. aiplanes killed 10 or so terrorists in a random bombing of Fallujah? These daily reports are false. History has shown military claims as mostly false or misinformed.Make Levees, Not WarComment
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in a guerilla situation you do not know who is a civilian idiot.Originally posted by CamChicks
It's not combat when you're shooting unarmed civilians.
If a car doesn't stop when approaching a checkpoint, or when a kid pulls out an AK-47 they are going to die.
you don't wait for them to make the next move before you react or you are going to dieComment
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You are correct...so was many other cities...towns...and villages by all combatants involved...and civilians have been targeted since the beginning of wars...nothing new about it.Originally posted by Joe Citizen
So was Hiroshima... so was Nagasaki...When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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Who is the 'they" that you are speaking about? The coalition forces are not egaged against a military force but are engaged against civilian forces...thus all classifications of "insurgents" are civilians.Originally posted by uno
I don't think they consider foreign civillians as civillians.When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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I think that a lot of you have forgotten that the soldiers are only doing what they must to survive. The were sent by their government, and they now have to try to stay alive long enough to get home.
But when you are in a land where the " People " are more like wild animals, then some of the things that you do may look pretty fucked up to someone sitting on their sofa and bitching about their government, or about someone elses government.PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic
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TChicks.com | Angeles Cid | Mariana Cordoba | MAILERS WELCOME!Comment
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You make the statement "You are wrong." and then fail to point out where he is wrong.Originally posted by Giorgio_Xo
You are wrong. I'm sorry Roc. We were killing by the 10,000s in the first Gulf War. Civilian death estimates were over 120,000 during the 30 day air war. 10,000s of innocent Iraqis also died in this current war.
Today, Iraqis are dying at a rate of 50 plus a day. Why do you steadfastly believe that we can't commit evil? We are an evil arrogant regime. Instead of hunting for Bin Laden, the true enemy of the U.S., we fight in Iraq while the Taliban and the warlords have retaken Afghanistan. Do you actually believe the Pentagon reports when they claim U.S. aiplanes killed 10 or so terrorists in a random bombing of Fallujah? These daily reports are false. History has shown military claims as mostly false or misinformed.
gen·o·cide ( P ) Pronunciation Key (jn-sd)
n.
The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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Exactly...it is a soldiers duty to not only defend himself against a perceived threat but to also defend his comrades from a perceived threat.Originally posted by baddog
in a guerilla situation you do not know who is a civilian idiot.
If a car doesn't stop when approaching a checkpoint, or when a kid pulls out an AK-47 they are going to die.
you don't wait for them to make the next move before you react or you are going to dieWhen you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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Fuck you. He served 12 years and was THERE. WTF have YOU done? NOTHING. I like how all these Bush lovers are not volunteering for duty. NOT ONE FUCKING BUSH LOVER. If they were they wouldn't be posting here they'd be at boot camp and on their way over to Iraq. Chicken shits. You need to shoot yourself in the head. Seriously, people like you hurt America with your stupidity. You should not be allowed to breed.Originally posted by theking
It is good that he has left the Marine Corp...he is a danger to the troops that serve under him. His use of the word "genocide" is totally inappropriate. Not every one can handle combat...and he couldn't.Comment
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I served 12 years...and my career was brought to an end in the 1st Gulf War. Now goOriginally posted by GatorB
Fuck you. He served 12 years and was THERE. WTF have YOU done? NOTHING. I like how all these Bush lovers are not volunteering for duty. NOT ONE FUCKING BUSH LOVER. If they were they wouldn't be posting here they'd be at boot camp and on their way over to Iraq. Chicken shits. You need to shoot yourself in the head. Seriously, people like you hurt America with your stupidity. You should not be allowed to breed.
...kid.
When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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Bullshit. Bullshit Bullshit.Originally posted by GatorB
Fuck you. He served 12 years and was THERE. WTF have YOU done? NOTHING. I like how all these Bush lovers are not volunteering for duty. NOT ONE FUCKING BUSH LOVER. If they were they wouldn't be posting here they'd be at boot camp and on their way over to Iraq. Chicken shits. You need to shoot yourself in the head. Seriously, people like you hurt America with your stupidity. You should not be allowed to breed.
If I was called to duty (through the draft or through a plea for more soliders, I would go. In a heart beat. Would I be scared shitless, yes, but I would go, for my country and for my family.
Secondly, if you talk to almost any soldier over in Iraq or Afganastan you'd get the true story. For the most part, the forces there are favored. We're doing a good thing there. I have friends who have served in both Afganastan and Iraq and who are currently serving over there.
They all say the same thing. The news here is not portraying the effort there accurately. Things seem bad because thats what we're seeing. We're not seeing every new building, or power plant. We're not seeing the good thats being done.
As far as the fucking "Death Toll" the US lost a total of 407,000 military people in WWII. I think we're doing ok in Iraq.
Now, can we please drop the fucking subjects of the war, Iraq, the election and whatever mindfuckingly boring else is being discussed (except juicy's penis size) and lets get back to business.
We've lost several good members lately because of all the bullshit.
Lets work to change that.Comment
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The correct figure is around 290,000.Originally posted by the_wizz
As far as the fucking "Death Toll" the US lost a total of 407,000 military people in WWII. I think we're doing ok in Iraq.Comment
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The figure of approximately 290,000 are KIA's only. Actual American deaths far exceed that figure.Originally posted by Joe Citizen
The correct figure is around 290,000.Last edited by theking; 09-27-2004, 10:07 PM.When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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I had checked out the figures before I posted.Originally posted by Joe Citizen
The correct figure is around 290,000.
http://www.angelfire.com/ct/ww2europe/stats.html
Thanks.Comment
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So did I.Originally posted by the_wizz
I had checked out the figures before I posted.
http://www.angelfire.com/ct/ww2europe/stats.html
Thanks.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004619.html
http://ww2bodycount.netfirms.com/Last edited by Joe Citizen; 09-27-2004, 10:22 PM.Comment
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It's hard for Americans to accept that we are the enemy there. We are the imperialists that invaded them. We are the aggressors. We are the occupiers. We are wrong.
WE travelled THERE. Iraq did not attack America. Iraq was no threat to America. But that didn't stop Bush from bombing their homes and killing their children, and we have killed so many now that they will never forgive us and they will never stop fighting until we are gone. You would defend your homeland too.
I hear some Americans talk like we are doing them such a huge favor, by paying to rebuild what we destroyed in the first place. That doesn't make us the good guys. It makes us colonizers.
Bush fooled much of the US with his vague patroitic rhetoric and invoking the gods of 'Jesus' and 'Democracy', but it's not going to convince the people living there defending their nation against a foriegn army that continues to slaughter them. Every person we kill turns another family against us.
We shouldn't be allowed to label this assault on the world as 'preemption' just because we're America. Iraq didn't hit America first. It is not 'defending' when there was no imminent threat. We sent our soldiers to their lands. In a war, whoever crosses the border first are the hostiles. This was an unprovoked attack and, as tough as it is to stomach, that makes us the bad guys.
Go ahead and call me a traitor. I am saying exactly what Germans should have been saying 65 years ago. We must be willing to accept awful truths and acknowledge the misdeeds of our leaders, lest we become accomplices to their crimes.Comment
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And as I pointed out your figure represents KIA's not the total of Americans lost in the war.Originally posted by Joe Citizen
So did I.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004619.html
http://ww2bodycount.netfirms.com/When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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Okay, what happened to the other 110,000 people?Originally posted by theking
And as I pointed out your figure represents KIA's not the total of Americans lost in the war.Comment
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You of course are entitled to your opinions and conclusions...just be aware that that does not make them right...or justified.Originally posted by CamChicks
It's hard for Americans to accept that we are the enemy there. We are the imperialists that invaded them. We are the aggressors. We are the occupiers. We are wrong.
WE travelled THERE. Iraq did not attack America. Iraq was no threat to America. But that didn't stop Bush from bombing their homes and killing their children, and we have killed so many now that they will never forgive us and they will never stop fighting until we are gone. You would defend your homeland too.
I hear some Americans talk like we are doing them such a huge favor, by paying to rebuild what we destroyed in the first place. That doesn't make us the good guys. It makes us colonizers.
Bush fooled much of the US with his vague patroitic rhetoric and invoking the gods of 'Jesus' and 'Democracy', but it's not going to convince the people living there defending their nation against a foriegn army that continues to slaughter them. Every person we kill turns another family against us.
We shouldn't be allowed to label this assault on the world as 'preemption' just because we're America. Iraq didn't hit America first. It is not 'defending' when there was no imminent threat. We sent our soldiers to their lands. In a war, whoever crosses the border first are the hostiles. This was an unprovoked attack and, as tough as it is to stomach, that makes us the bad guys.
Go ahead and call me a traitor. I am saying exactly what Germans should have been saying 65 years ago. We must be willing to accept awful truths and acknowledge the misdeeds of our leaders, lest we become accomplices to their crimes.When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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Great post, you are spot on!Originally posted by CamChicks
It's hard for Americans to accept that we are the enemy there. We are the imperialists that invaded them. We are the aggressors. We are the occupiers. We are wrong.
WE travelled THERE. Iraq did not attack America. Iraq was no threat to America. But that didn't stop Bush from bombing their homes and killing their children, and we have killed so many now that they will never forgive us and they will never stop fighting until we are gone. You would defend your homeland too.
I hear some Americans talk like we are doing them such a huge favor, by paying to rebuild what we destroyed in the first place. That doesn't make us the good guys. It makes us colonizers.
Bush fooled much of the US with his vague patroitic rhetoric and invoking the gods of 'Jesus' and 'Democracy', but it's not going to convince the people living there defending their nation against a foriegn army that continues to slaughter them. Every person we kill turns another family against us.
We shouldn't be allowed to label this assault on the world as 'preemption' just because we're America. Iraq didn't hit America first. It is not 'defending' when there was no imminent threat. We sent our soldiers to their lands. In a war, whoever crosses the border first are the hostiles. This was an unprovoked attack and, as tough as it is to stomach, that makes us the bad guys.
Go ahead and call me a traitor. I am saying exactly what Germans should have been saying 65 years ago. We must be willing to accept awful truths and acknowledge the misdeeds of our leaders, lest we become accomplices to their crimes.
Comment
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Desease...accidents...executions...starvation...et c. etc.Originally posted by Joe Citizen
Okay, what happened to the other 110,000 people?When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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If you want an accurate picture of the real effects of war on the Iraqi people as a whole the only way to get that is to travel there and see it for yourself, otherwise speak directly with people who had first hand experience, actually being overseas.
The only real commentary here that I put any weight behind is the_wizz's because he is talking about first hand accounts that he has received from friends. That kind of information is the only kind you can really trust, after all, remember, the media is a business, it has no journalistic integrity and if you honestly believe that it does on any large scale you need to seriously re-examine your beliefs. With that said, if the_wizz is telling me that he has friends who say the situation actually has quite a few bright spots I'll give him some weight.
After all what makes for more headlines, more sold newspapers, and more hours of watched TV, a new power plant being opened, a bridge being built, or an American hostage being beheaded.
Just ask yourself when was the last time you saw a thread on GFY boasting to be first about having the video of a hospital being opened in Iraq, and compare that to the fanfare that occurs when a terrorist kills a hostage.
Take Luck!Comment
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