The True Importance of the Free Site in our Industry.
 

Sure there are tons of people giving out free content, and it may be declining profits, but the real cause of this is the amout of webmasters that exist today compared to last year thsi time or the years before..
However, pay sites offer things free sites and tgps could never provide.. Movies, live shows, high resolution images, and the convience of not having to sift through all the junk out there on the net like popups..

Free sites in general cant afford $$ to host these items, and resort usually to lower quality images, and short movie clips.

So the free site with its free images isnt destroying the paysite world at all. In fact it is probably raising the bar, in pushing these guys to provide more live shows, more movies, and more quality images..

There may be tons of free stuff out there, but with it comes the demand for more as people get boared of just plain images.. The answer is the paysite..

And with all the competition now days and with the huge growth in adult webmasters, pay sites and free sites, this is the true cause of the decrease in revenue. There is a dilution and almost a saturation of paysites now days.

For these paysites to survive, they not only need quality content, but they need quality marketing, and that only comes from the quality FREE sites with the free images..

This dynamic is quite important, and the vaule of the free sites to the paysites is overlooked. Take away the free sites, all of a sudden all the paysites are on equal playing fields competing with one another.

Granted the large pay sites would find other means of marketing to the consumer, but the dynmaic of the free site feeding the paysite can never be matched by anyother means.


------------------
Webmaster/Owner www.boneprone.com
icq: 66883099

[This message has been edited by boneprone (edited 05-10-2001).]

What the hell are you posting at AWI boneprone? I thought you said you were gonna tell people I wasn't you if I said I was boneprone4Life? Your a lying sack of shit. You and your family can fuck off.

being serious here jimmy, not a gimick post.
There are a lot of people here who just dont get the marklet dynmaics of whats really going on in our industry.

[This message has been edited by boneprone (edited 05-10-2001).]

Boneprone, This topic was 1 of your best, Iam inclined to agree with your point of view on this issue.

------------------
Smile and Be Happy

Lightning Free Hosting
Girls Host

I agree as well.. I think that the free sites might seem so abundent to all of us because just the fact that we are always around these types of sites while we are working and what not and plus we know excactly where to look to find them that it just kind of throws it out of prospective..

I remember before I started in the biz I couldent even find a free host that accepted adult sites.. but now that I have been around them so long the free hosts seem to never end in numbers..

So what im trying to say is just the fact that sence we are so used to knowing where all these free hosts and sites are and they seem so numerious, that dosent mean that the average surfer is as effected in the inflation as much as it seems to affect us..

You guys know what im saying?? or at least tryin to say?

[This message has been edited by MindWaste (edited 05-10-2001).]

I just wish some of you guys would stop using such large amounts of high quality pics in galleries. I have noticed that some people are using full sets of free content pics often making a gallery of 30 plus pics.

If only TGP's would stipulate a max and min number of pics.

Free sites are great providing they don't offer too much quality stuff and use more of the teasing tactics to get those sign ups and banner clicks

I can image a daily visit to the Hun satisfying many porn seekers needs and probably keeping them away from signing up to a pay site. It would be nice to see just how much pay site revenues increase if the quality and quantity of TGP images dropped by lets say 20%.

Other than that I agree with boneprone ? well kind of.

Susan I agree. I size down my pics on my sites and galleries. I even do it on free hosts. I think others should do the same. I hate fuzzy pics and thumbs tho. Smaller pics also make the page load faster. I have had some pics submitted that you have to use the bottom scroll bar to see! I like getting galleries that are 10-12 pics.. that is it.. leaves the surfer hungry for more.

------------------
Hot Tropical Babes

Good points BP.

Susan, I agree.

My gals are 10 to 12 pic max. Just solo women, very little pink. They would do a helluva lot better if others did the same...but, oh well.

I just put most of my energy into my AVS', but wouldn't ya know it...the same thing is happening to them. I make quality sites with a good amount of quality content. I used to be in the minority on that. Most of them were template, submit 50 of them a day kinda sites.

Now, I'm seeing a lot of, what appears to be big paysites with feeds and all, splitting themselves into 10 different AVS sites. Too much content for AVS IMHO. Their raising the bar to the point where it will make it damn near impossible to make a profit off of AVS commissions if you have to pay for feeds, video, chat, exclusive content, etc. just to compete. I guess it was only a matter of time LOL.

Hello April how are you.

I have just started AVS, it's nice to work with but I have little experience in this area so its all a learning curve. Do you use the big AVS names ? Getting good traffic into these sites is my next move, not sure of the methods yet. I have started with real quality sites at CyberAge and the like.

We can only hope that this industry is like most others. There is a huge influx of people thinking they will get rich overnight and then see that they either have to work pretty hard or have to cough up alot of startup cash.

So then the slump where more so called webmasters bail out leaving the hardcore site builders/owners. Reading some of the boards is humorous to say the least. Just look at all these people roaring in and asking how to make the big money tonight so they can retire next year. Or even some of the existing webmasters that can't be satisfied with 150-500 a day. Greed usually thins the ranks in every business.

We're betting that this area of smaller webmasters will end up just like the big Domains that went under from too much too quick. They'll sink with debts owed to providers for all those bells and whistles.

Cut the galleries down!! lol Ban the guys stuffing 15-20-50 or even a hundred pics. If we pressure them they will calm it down or lose out. Write your sponsor today with a maximum pic per gallery rule! http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

I think a good analogy for the free/pay pornsites is television.

You have networks that are completely free, and there's some good stuff on there - but only during primetime and only every other day. (and full of ads)

Then you have cable channels, more specialized - but costs you a little bit, just like AVS sites. Also you get a whole group of them for a flat rate. (still full of ads)

Then you have HBO, plays some good shit, costs quite a bit more - but gives you stuff like Sopranos and blockbuster movies. You can't get it anywhere else. Paysites.

Sure there are tons of people who are perfectly happy not to have HBO, they watch the networks and they're fine with that. They don't think Premium channels are worth it, so they don't buy them, they make due with what they get for free. The networks don't convince them they should do without,
for possible customers it makes them want it more.

So those big high-quality galleries are like "The Practice", but it's only on one hour a week, and it's still not as good as it would be if it was an HBO series.

I was thinking about that last night while trying to find something to watch.

Here's another point of view. Content providers are not real happy with TGP's and such which degrade the value of content that pay site owners are paying hard-earned money for.

Did you ever stop to think that when you buy content, part of what you are paying for is the damage you and other webmasters are doing to its saleability. After a while, a content provider trying to sell pictures of Debbie So-And-So will start hearing "Oh, I don't want that, I saw that (on another site, in a newsgroup, whatever)."

The ideal location for content in terms of making it inexpensive for you is in pay sites only. Anytime the surfer can get content for free, it contributes to the expense of content generally.

------------------
Producer of truly original teen/young woman-oriented adult content

Yes I agree free sites are important for teasing surfers and driving
traffic to pay sites.But TGP's are crap.
As I said before your index page is your most valuable advertising space,with submiting galleries you give up that space
and serve your surfer with content right away.As free site operator your job is SENT
HORNY SURFER TO YOUR SPONSORS BEFORE THEY SEE
ANY OF YOUR CONTENT.Not to serve them with
"all you can get" free porn daily.
TGP's serve surfers with 1 000's
of free hardcore pics and video clips every day.

One Other Thing "Pay sites have videos,free feeds etc...",
Yes they do but adult web is still 90% about images not videos as 90% of surfers still use
dial up connection.Have you tried videos on the web with 33k modem? LOL
If I were the guy who wants to watch porn video I would go to adult video store
and rent one for $4.Or you can buy Adult DVD
for $ 29.And watch it home on your big screen TV and not on small PC monitor crap.
Pay sites are not about CONTENT but about
Billing Practices.
My 2 cents http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

Susan...good to have you back! Or maybe you weren't gone, just haven't read much from you lately. You were one of the people I was thinking of when I mentioned that we may have lost certain people due to the silliness.

I use many AVS'. I make different doorways for quite a few. Cyberage is the best for traffic and memberships at the moment. Adult Check used to be, but they have run into a snag or two. Sexkey and Freenetpass have great conversion, but there are ethical and potential chargeback issues that kinda even things out a bit.

I would be more than happy to help in anyway either via e-mail or icq. I'm not on icq very often cuz I tend to get sidetracked chit chatting LOL. But feel free to try me on either. [email protected] or 106421330.

Thier FAQ sections tell you just about all you need to know as far as submitting. I've found that you MUST feed your sites. You can rely on their link lists somewhat, depending on the service used, but just like any other site..all avenues must be utilized.

Feeder sites seem to work best. Galleries help. SE traffic is always great but, as you know, it is not only hard to get the traffic but even to submit to them nowadays. Just how many SE's even allow adult submission? The list is getting smaller everyday http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/frown.gif

Always do a little more than is required, even for the basic avs. I personally hate template sites and I think the members tend to shy away from them also unless they already have a membership and then it's a matter of "why the hell not". I always shoot for gold/platinum whathaveyou. Mainly cuz I love to design as opposed to mass produce, but, obviously that's where the money's at.

With adultcheck, I read somewhere and I think it holds true, that you have to submit a ton of basic sites that feed into your gold site to make any money. They also have the strictest rules. 250 pics for gold! Yikes! And they have to be high quality and unsaturated content (easier said than done LOL).

Check out avsalert.com, they don't have a ton of posts but it is still helpful.

It's the same thing you've been doing just on a smaller scale. They are really just mini paysites. The trick is to provide enough quality content/design/tease always keeping in mind the amount of the commissions you may receive so you're not killed on your overhead costs. My splash pages tend to kill me in bandwidth, but they tend to get me the sales...catch 22.

The best thing about them is you're referrals. You get the referrer $ for your own sites with no limits. Gotta love that http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/biggrin.gif.

I would go into details about the best way to feed your AVS' but it's truly the same game. Feeder sites posted at the biggie link lists...Gals posted at any and every TGP, I haven't noticed a difference in productivity using free hosts (it's the TGP rules that dictate whether they are worth your time)...SE submissions...link trades, etc.

I like to make my own "link lists" that only link to my AVS'.

Others may have better/different ways. Please post away people, always looking for different ideas http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

Oh, I forgot the best part of AVS'. Just like paysites, you are selling memberships but you are are also selling sponsors. They have already shown that they are willing to whip out the credit card so don't forget the ads LOL. Although it's a little trickier cuz you're already giving them more content that a gallery...their are still upsells to be made. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

April you monkey you should leave porn and write books http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

I have had to cut and paste that post cos I am going to the pub and that's priority 1 on Thursday nite. Thank's lots for all the info, I will sit, digest and think tomorrow. Sometime next week I may mail you with a site to see what you think, depends if I get the time to finish off some new stuff.

Thanks again, I will now go buy you a beer and drink it for you LOL

April you are a cheeky monkey, as is boneprone. I'm gonna take the time to read all these posts but first I'm gonna finish this Stephen King novel.

My opinion on freesites is NO HARDCORE. Save it for the adult check area or something, or at least put up alot of advertising, these 40 pic galleries with no banners are getting out of hand.

AVS is a joke. You are just making them $$. Why waste your time markeitng something that only gets you like a dollar everytime someone whips out there creditard, when you can make anywhere from 30.00-40.00 bucks pushing them towards a pay site. Or better yet pish the surefer to a recurring program site like Amateur Pages with good retention rates..

as for tgps or gallery makers using the good quality images, more power to em.. there is too much crap out there, and when these people get cut out of the $$ loop maybe things will clean up.. For me I pay 2500.00 every 4 months for good paysite quality photos to use and present to people for free.. Why? Because it creates a demand and makes me better than my competition, and people come back for more.. I know for a fact someone would rather see, and be more likely to whip out their credit card after seeing and being teased by my quality photos, rather than whipping out their card off a bombardment of pop-up windows or shitty designed cj sites. I market my satisfied customers off my free site to the qulity paysites like Amateur Pages, Top Cash, and who ever I choose.

My sign up ratios are better than most people I know, sending sites like amateur pages last month and the month before over 100 signups per month on a 1:400 ratio.

So you see in this situation everyone wins.. I win, Amateur Pages wins, and the surfer wins because he never had to mees with crap and popups and the jerking around most of you put your surfers though.

Right now the market is in a unique stage. We have a saturation of webmasters and sites most of which are pure crap. Its a matter of time before the market filters out these people as more and more quality webmasters and programs come upon us to take the market share and the profits. I dont intend to be one of the shit sites filtered out of this, and will contiune to present for free the images I pay a lot for that are sometimes better than many paysites. It is what makes me valuable to the people who pay me.

And for those of you who think that real contant providers dont like to see their produckt on free sites and only pay sites, thats pure bullshit. And it only hurts the low quality payisites when people like me present quality paysite photos for free... You see a good quailty paysite doenst have just photos, they have live feeds, super high resolution photos, and movies.. These are things large free sites could never provide because of bandwith cost. I already pay 5k a month on bandwith on just photos.. If I were to add movies and feeds, it would cut out my profitability and would not be feasable.

[This message has been edited by boneprone (edited 05-10-2001).]

for those of you who cant read long threads and prefer the boneprone 4-life posts, go fuck yourself, its time to be serious when it comes to making money. There is a time for everything..

Im not just the bone idiot many of you think I am, I actually do work and make $$. I dont gamble 8,000.00 on fuckiong basketball games and 24,000 in a weekend with my moms money

Boneprone-4life.

UNSEENWORLD, i could not disagree with you more.. You have not really understood the dynamics of the adult industry on the net.. If you read my two long posts it will be a good crash course for ya..

I have to agree with BoneProne on the market dynamics however I was a little disturbed with how she misspelled the word "dynamics" LOL just kidding..it was a great read.

I have a question about the limiting the gallerys thing tho. I have read that some people have up to 2000 or so galleries and at 10 pics a piece that is 20,000 pics. Damn, that is half the size of some pay sites I have seen so what is the key to limiting here? Don't link the galleries together? Don't they end up getting spidered by SEs just by being posted? hmmm

There should be a t.v. movie of the week called "the many faces of boneprone" I think Mathew Broderick should play Boneprone.

How long are you gonna be serious before you get bored? 5-10 minutes?

O.K. lets talk about webmaster stuff. I don't have an AVS site. I hacked into Adult Check Gold and I saw how shitty it was so I never bothered to build one. I'm going for return customers on my site so I don't want to rip anyone off who might come back to buy something again.

As for 5k in bandwidth bills...are you crazy? Can't you get a dedicated server or something?

God damn that was a long thread. Sorry guys. You get to typin' and before you know it....

Susan, thanks for the beer! Although, I'm a gin-n-tonic kinda gal, I have NEVER turned down a pint....even from half way around the world http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/wink.gif.

Good discussion here...I totally agree with the "less is more" on the content aspect. I run alot of free sites and I dont put more than 20 pics on each site and they usually are only softcore and I send my traffic to the sponsor via "click here for the hardcore set" etc. Example: http://www.adultclips.net/absolutasian/ =)

Well, I agree with boneprone on the Quality Issue. I believe a gallery and its Images reflect upon the Sponsor/Partner you are trying to promote.
I think alot of surfers THINK the Images ARE the sponsors - Even though I buy 90% of the content I post or for the sites I build.
I wont post crappy looking or overly compressed images - it reflects very badly on what you are trying to sell.
But I dont give away the farm either, Just enough to entice and make them hungry for more - and that may mean even a little pink.

stevent03147,

As far as hundreds of galleries - yes I have those too - but I dont submit them all in a row, and if a search engine finds one which they do - the only links out are to the sponsor - recips - and a very small link out to one of my other sites so If they dont buy I can always recycle the traffic...

Exactly like Cam says. Spread the gals out to different freehosts and paid domains and they don't get all bunched toegether in the SE's. Limit the content by all means!

We have sponsors' hardcore content but not a pic is online of it. Maybe we will use it in an AVS at some point.

Our biggest prob with the tgp's is their non-acceptance of semiclad galleries or other softcore so that we can entice the surfers to buy. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/frown.gif We know of a few but too many refuse the page. We even had one tell us that the standard size of thumbs was too small!!

If any of you tgp owners decide to go that direction, post it!!!!!

Quote my earlier comment..

It would be nice to see just how much pay site revenues increase if the quality and quantity of TGP images dropped by lets say 20%.

**********************

To say a drop in quality is wrong and I should really know better than to have said that. Quantity is more the emphasis sorry. I know first hand that quality previews make sign ups.

The other point I was trying to make is just how many potential buyers of porn are kept satisfied by the free stuff or are these guys never going to pull out the card anyway. People here are talking about drops in revenue but the number of new net users has never been greater, is it that we are now giving these new users a much easier path to the free stuff before catching them in their days of web ignorance.

"is it that we are now giving these new users a much easier path to the free stuff before catching them in their days of web ignorance"

Susan I think that is right,once the new guy
find some PicPost, Movie Post or TGP he bookmarks it and never needs to buy porn.
That's why their traffic is good only for
your counters.
Just go to some chat room and just listen.
General feeling on the net is "Why to pay for porn when there is plenty for free"

i definately agree the ones who say the QUANTITY of free content is the big problem... i think tgp's are the real pain in the ass... coz just face it:

what does the majority of the pornsurfers want? they want enough good quality pictures (most of the surfers use dial-up) to satisfy them whenever they want to be satisfied without having to search for it...

and exactly what are tgp's like the hun offering??
tons of hot good quality galleries in all niches you can imagine refreshed every day, at the same spot every day! AND IT'S FOR FREE!!!!

so like susan said: i'm really wondering what would happen if all those frickin' tgp's would only post let's say 10 galleries a day instead of 2 trillion...

just a minor hint to tgp webmasters http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

------------------
ThaTiminator
e-mail [email protected]
ICQ 29354876
IEP hosting

Today lots of newbies dont know any better than to steal good quality content make galleries and send it to TGP's. I am sure
TGP's like their galleries.But when new webmaster realize that he is not getting
rich he starts making more and more galleries, feeding downward spiral.How many new galleries is every single day posted over net? 50 000, 100 000 who knows.

Or how about 6?
http://www.cumslinger.com
http://www.rude-grrl.com

What happens is you make more money with less traffic. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/biggrin.gif



[This message has been edited by Warphead (edited 05-10-2001).]

That is called Efficiency

I thought this thread was going to be about impotentcy.

Free porn or Porn for sale. This does not really matter. What really matters is that porn is a wondefull thing and the fact that we all love it so much just hits that little spot in my heart (not gay porn though that shit is just sick :P)

kris_duffy

No my friend, what really matters is that we make money from it, we already know its the best thing a man can buy and that includes gay porn too.

So the free site with its free images isnt destroying the paysite world at all. In fact it is probably raising the bar, in pushing these guys to provide more live shows, more movies, and more quality images..


Hmmmmm, I have discovered through my trials and tribulations over the last five years that when it comes to newbies, and even SOME exprerienced surfers...

They do not realize there is more out there!!! They think they are already getting the best out there for free!

Sounds silly eh? But I tested the waters by turning on about ten guys I know onto my site. NONE of them had ever joined a pay site, and when i offered them membership I heard things like " Oh, i don't need to pay, persian kitty has everything paysites have " or " Paysites are rip-offs, I've heard that they bill you forever, whether you quit or not " or " Why should I pay? Everything thats out there is free already? " ect.. People do not realize the abundance of content in a paysite. You can advertise 500,000 pix, 300,000 videos and they STILL will not realize what they are missing. I think that is one of the reasons former paysite member lists are so valuable, not only has the guy whipped out his credit card previously, but he knows the wonders membership to a quality paysite gives ya...
* Whew * this thread is long enough already. But, think of it from a surfer perspective, talk to some of your friends who have viewed porn but never paid, Quiz them. And you might come up with some new perspective of your own..

:d

Man that was a lot of reading...i almost didn't get to the end...

Coming from a sponsors stand point....The I dea of a free site or a TGP gallery is to tease the surfer.....it's like foreplay.

It is the Pay sites Job to get the surfer off....and to pay the people that send us the traffic.

Less is definitely more when it comes to showing pink on a free site.

Most surfers are surfing one-handed and using the wrong hand on the mouse.

Make your sites easy to navigate, just tease them and then send them to your sponsor....Let us take care of the rest http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

------------------
Make Money. Period.

www.pythonvideo.com
www.dollarmachine.com

I agree, many surfers dont realize there is better stuff than the free stuf they are seeing. Thats why we have to market the pat program to the surfer, in so doing you have to let them know that if they like what they see there is much much more in the paysite and to give the trial a whirl.

the main problem i see with paysites is their generic entrance page and tour - they are starting to look exactly the same to me now. Take a look at girliescam's preview and compare it to hustler.com.
How come girliescam looks good and gives you a feel for the site and yet hustler - with it's HUGE budget - produces the same old same old?
It's not just about content - after all, one lass being bumfucked looks the same as another when the camera is zoomed in - but about presentation.
The free site owner is less worried about the presentation of their site as they are just building a feeder to their sponsor - who SHOULD have a high res, well laid out and friendly site in comparison.

I agree, the generic warning pages gotta bore the surfer.. They are all the same.. But look at Amateur Pages, and their welcome page, it is much more inviting.

I think this is the reason soo many paysites like Vivid hae such a poor reputation with webmasters in gettign signups is the splash warning pages.. It is also what has caused Top Cash's Amateur Pie program to drop like a rock.. The generic page is nothing special.

I guess im still bitter at the pie program for loosing the 40 people I signed up under me pushing the program, only to have them all drop the program becuse of this simple change. Why go generic? I just dont get it.

------------------
Webmaster/Owner
www.boneprone.com
icq: 66883099

It may look nice, but there is no tease at all.

You mean those neon blobs with hard to read text and pic clips lost in a graphic artists desire to express himself. They must work on some people. I have not seen the AP site for a long time it's nice.

You'd be suprised how many pay-site owners think free sites are the root of all evil.

More fool them - my free sites are all designed for the singular purpose of advertising for my sponsors - i got about 200k page views in total over the past 4 weeks.
All the sponsor had to do was give me a few pics and he got HUGE advertising. It's not my damn fault no-one is interested in signing up for their sites - I put the work in at my end - maybe THEY should try something a bit more enticing than the 'neon blobs' that Susan has also noticed http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/wink.gif

Kat

That Britney arrow just made us smile here http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

hehe - I can't remember where I got that pic of Britney! That's an old site of mine - where I learned html and just put up a site because i could - i still go back and play with it sometimes as it keeps getting hits.

Are you guys talking about Britney Spears?

I think freesites are not bad . But we should keep softcore and little hardcore stuff on them . And put all extreme stuff on sponsors . we would get TONS more signups .

Well said.

BTW how's Ice Cube and Warren G doin? NWA was great!

You lookin to promote anymore rap artists? Boneprone's "Icy Hot Stuntaz" is a hot new group..especialy with the chicks...you should check them out. They could make you alot of money.

------------------
--------------------
Being that everybody is complaining about too much B.S. on this board...here is some helpful information.

The best way to make money with free sites, is either through a click through program, a partnership program, a pay per signup program , or with a dialer. All these methods have all been proven to make webmasters money.

I think Jimmy 3-way is still selling shirts!