How will affiliate programs deal with the new 2257 regulations?
 

Yes the laws are going to get tighter and people will become more organized. My question is this: How will TGP submitters/Free site submitters, Link List and TGP owners keep these documents? If they use sponser provided content, will the sponsers be required to provide the documents with it's affiliates via zip files? How will the models react when their info can potentially end up in the hands of thousands of submitters and owners of "free porn sites"?

What do you think will happen? Will their be an industry standard or is this an "every man for himself" type situation?

dude, nobody cares! keep on truckin' :1orglaugh

Obviously I care if I'm asking. This is a very real situation and I'm sure I'm not the only one a bit concerned...Both as a submitter, TGP owner and a person thats running an affiliate program.

Honestly no fucking idea, still thinking on it. Very open to ideas.

There is no easy answer. We're still trying to figure it out :(

Wouldn't the easiest road to take include providing docs with the content issued? I'm a jack of all trades and I'm preparing to buy 5 more filing cabinets just to save my ass. I'm glad this is coming into effect, but it's going to have an industry wide effect.

Site owners of rating sites like hot or not, dating service sites, etc. will all fall under this. The time to figure this out is now. Not the day before these regulations come into effect.

Yes, but seriously provide all documents to every tom, dick, and harry that join my program? How much can we edit, what about already established privacy laws and sharing information?

Exactly where the problem lies. How can we all deal with this issue, while still granting affiliates access to the records if need be. I know I'll personally dump all sponsers and remove all content that isn't under the new regs just to avoid jail time. Who knows...Maybe it'll also mean affiliate programs screen affilliates before they're granted access.

That's the attitude most webmaster have...and then suddenly there is a big bang and the crying starts all over the boards. People will care when programs have to shut down, affiliate accounts are cancelled and all suddenly realize that legal stuff is something nobody can ignore.

Wouldn't this open up the pitfall of a potential stalker/fan causing some real problems to the poor model?

Honestly it could end the affiliate model as we know it possibly. We deal mostly in exclusive stuff and handing out unedited model info just would not fly. So screening of affiliates, refferences, ect may all have to come into play.

Nudity is not covered under 2257 rules. Unless rating and dating sites are posting hardcore, they probably won't fall under the rule. It's always a debate about what is covered by the law.

Even if their users are posting harder pics, there has also been debate about whether sites that allow users to post their own pictures will fall under the law. For example, AOL chatrooms are probably not going to open AOL up to 2257 rules. Does that mean that dating site chatrooms will be covered? What about dating site profiles? Who knows?

As usual with the adult industry, the rules will be written during prosecutions. Who wants to volunteer for that? :)

This is my worry. I personally wouldn't want the names and addresses of our models on the streets for all to see. This is a major invasion of privacy and we need to figure out how much info can be excluded. If we want to be ready for this as an industry before the law passes, n ow is the time.

Sure we can "see a lawyer", but if the lawyer isn't familiar with the biz, how can we be sure that his word is concrete. Can anybody recommend a lawyer in LV that is "in the know"?

B-I-N-G-FUCKING-O.
People are just thinking of the docs and at the same time avoiding reality. If this flies and it probably will, are we all ready to ditch our affiliate income? Not many will stay afloat (program owners included) without affiliate income. This is a BIG issue and I'm amazed that so many have shrugged their shoulders and kept carrying on biz like everything is peachy keen. We need to be ready when the wave hits of we'll all drown.

Nothing is concrete because there is no prosecution history for adult websites under 2257. Even the best lawyer is just giving you his or her opinion. The jury will decide what's concrete.

Everyone doing adult content should have a good free speech lawyer on retainer. Your lawyer will help you stay our of trouble and also be ready to jump in if the government does come after you.

Problem is most webmasters do not know of or remember when the government went on a porn rampage. They think all is good and will remain peachy since we have our "rights". When anyone who knows any porn history questions certain legalities and such they just assume we are pulling a chicken little on them.

Any suggestions off the top of your head? I'm looking to have one on retainer ASAP. This fucking porn assault is getting scarier by the day.

Freeadult.. I hear you with the chicken little theory. It's the common attitude, but one day the shit can and will hit the fan. Regardless of whether or not the time will come, I'd rather be prepared than sitting in a jail cell.

Yup operation myporn was all in one day, and that hit alot of people hard.

I am seriously open to talking to concerned people about strategies.

Wont it be acceptable for programs to provide the 2257 info, and the webmasters to simply link to all the 2257 pages supplied by each sponsor?

I was thinking it would be similar to the Deluxe Pass 2257 links, where they break it down by studio, and have a seperate link for each for the webmasters to link to.

From what I gather, it's going to require that all people publishing porn will need to have a hard copy of the documents in their hand. Also, this is not retroactive from what i understand, so old links/content prior to the law will be excluded.

Some lawyers who proudly represent the adult industry and are active at conventions, in court, etc:

Joe Obenberger (represented Mike Jones):
http://www.xxxlaw.net/

Larry Walters:
http://www.firstamendment.com/

Here are some other thread on the subject of lawyer recommendations:

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=133665
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=132426
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=102380
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...threadid=63661
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...threadid=92107

I say there should be some kind of convention or a meeting with people that are really concerned about this and everybody bring ideas to the table and brainstorm how to tackle this problem. Everybody who knows "better" will already be aware that "last minute" work gets you no where. So i think it should be an industry wide effort to figure out how to face the problem before it gets here.:2 cents:

fuck 2257!

fuck all laws!

long live acacia!

shaving rocks!

fuck your check, i am keeping it!

redirecting affiliate traffic rocks!

Too bad that doesn't seem that believable coming from the mouth of a good businessman. I know you've definitlky been brainstorming and your solution is probably already in place.

Thanks for the links Fiction. Very helpful considering the search is still down.

pxx... This would be a simple solution BUT those who know won't give out the solutions for free, and the others just don't give a shit.

Hmmm.

Well, if they do pass it and actually enforce it, may do more good than bad imo.
But, I do see where the concern is...

I really don't think it would get passed if it were to be that any Joe Blow could have personal information like that. They may not like/support the adult industry, but they aren't about to go tearing it down.
It would sure make for a lot of law suits by the models having some kind of a mega problem with that!
Why would they want to change it? It is now so that a webmaster can show the company name etc. of the actual content provider so if there are any problems from a legitimate source (ie FBI) they can easily go to the content producer and see the documents from them...

I'm sorry, I just don't get it...I guess.

Can anyone post to the official link for the 2257 regulations revision?

correct me if I'm wrong as I honestly haven't read much about , but wasn't it just a proposed change to the 2257 law? and nothing is set in stone just yet?

They are proposed changes to an existing law, however, the changes require no real vote... presto and it can / will be done.

http://www.regulations.gov/freddocs/04-13792.htm

http://my.execpc.com/~xxxlaw/#news <=- breakdown of the laws

My lawyer said the people that are probably going to be in 2257 the gun sights first are going to be the teen sites. The goal he said is for them to win, its hard to go in front of a jury saying you are protecting kids with 2257 and you are going after old lady.com. If they start looking they dont even have to look hard to find violations in reality, cust of records info with a po box or a email address or nothing at all. There will be a thinning of the herd.

That does make complete sense. But besides that, 2257 is also stating that the talent was aware and consenting of the shoot. It could be a possibility that some extreme sites and reality could also fall into this. I'm not a teen site owner, but it's still a concern as I have a few galleries and such around the net.

My running FAQ on the new 2257 regulations:

http://www.2257lookup.com/2257ForWebmasters.html


-brandon

i chatted with a lawyer who said the same thing when bush got voted in. i thought he was way overboard on what he was saying. maybe if shit does hit the fan he'll look spot on.

The cold slap in the face of reality will be , when on one terrible day ( which I hope never comes) There will be posting on this board someone we all know has been arrested. When that happens probably one third will quit the business that day. The first am girl site they get the mom running it out of her home and they take the kids away 50 percent of am sites will be gone. Alot of these people will be the same people who told me I worried too much and I was too conservative for porn. It's very sad

What we are going to do is put each models ID online, we are going to black out everything but the picture and her birth date. Each picture will have a number.

Webmasters can link back to our 2257 page to show where the record is and who owns the content.

If they want the record after that they can call or fax me and I will gladly send it.

As long as you don't show neglect you won't get into trouble, just keep your shit together.

ok but will that be legal to black out the models address and her real name? That would be a major relief if we could do that. I would have no problem sending out photo IDs if they only showed the picture, state, and DOB.

well, if the law goes thorugh why not open an offshore mailing address in spain for all models to use and then use a call fowarding service that will foward all calls to a prepaid cell phone. The offshore mailing address is only about $200 a year and a prepaid phone doesnt really cost anything since you wont be using it to answer stalker's calls.

Yes that's legal. More important than that, it's gonna keep the feds away (If they go looking at your site and you have this link).

If you have a link to what TheDoc is saying, you're fine. Remember, TheDoc HAS the original documents and the feds aren't gonna waste their time when your lawyer can subpoena TheDoc for his model id and releases.

They'll go after someone who doesn't have the link on their site.

Well If we can help you guys out starting up a company in Holland, you know where to find us!

No bullshit rules here!:thumbsup

What's the tax rate these days? 95%? :)

I love the Netherlands, but doesn't the government take all your cash when you have a business over there?

ya..looks like id's etc will just have to be part of the affiliate admin soon..downlowd them in a zip when you start promoting..not really a bid deal

If the laws do get changed, and worse comes ot worse it will deff have a major effect on the way affil programs are run, This is yet one more reason I am glad we switched to 3D / Anime content Even if worse comes to worse we will not be effected by the changes, Unless that is the nazi's turn their sites on the cartoon niche, then we'll get fucked.

All I can say cross your collective fingers, maybe this will not go through, never know stranger shit has happened.


-Loki-

I think if you just make a page with all the content providers you bought from you should be safe. If they keep all the records for you it should be covered.
As far as I understand you only have to own the legal documents if you are dealing directly with the models. As a client from a content provider you are not dealing with the models so the content provider is responsible.

Where did you read that?

When I started 4 years ago, everyone bought their own content to promote sponsors.

Actually, it really IS a bad idea. Every tom dick and harry should not be able to sign up for my program AND get all of my personal information right along with it.

This is a perfect example of laws intended to PROTECT people actually putting people in great danger and just being a waste of time and energy. It's a bad stupid counterproductive law that doesn't help ANYBODY and only serves to handicap the adult industry. The 2257 laws are as stupid as if they'd pass laws making cashiers make & maintain copies of customer id's everytime they card someone buying tobacco or alcohol.

Here is the direction that I'm going to take. It's about the best way I see myself doing it. I think this is safe enough to cover my ass.

Each one of our models will have a numbered dir with her file in it. The file will have a picture of the DL, which show the picture and the birth date only, and the numbered dir as a reference number. The numbers for each model will correspond the hard copy records in my office.

Seeming they know where the office is, my phone, e-mail, and fax number. If they need a model release/id, etc.. Then it's as simple as a faxing it to them.

In our webmasters area each of the models free content will have a link to that models 2257 page and / or they can link directly to my main 2257 page.

My 2257 page is going to link to other peoples 2257 page for content that I have purchased or lease.

I feel that is safe enough to cover my ass.

They already tried to, but the Supreme Court overturned it. Remember the so called "virtual child porn" law? If the government decided your naked cartoons were underage, they could have thrown you in jail if it wouldn't have been overturned. The Free Speech Coalition one that case.

This shit is a really fucking bad proposition the "industry-killers" have made...

Some of you guys expressed concerns about privacy etc. by handing out
model-info to webmasters..

How about giving Mr. Joe "The Stalker" Pornsurfer the ability to track down
and harass (and who knows what more) any model he fancies..!!?

Now THAT'S a potential privacy-fucker this could end up meaning.. :( :2 cents:

While everyone's concerns for model privacy are valid, I have to ask do you really think anyone outside the industry cares??

This could have a chilling effect on our business. The folks on the right who are pushing this thing could simply say "hey, if you're willing to fuck on film then the price you pay is to have everyone know who you are and where you live"

Say goodbye to all the new talent coming into this business.
The point of laws like these isn't that they want people to keep better records, they're simply trying to bitchslap the industry.

I think we (as an industry) should challenge the regs in court and get a temporary injunction before the feds start shutting people down and locking them up.

:2 cents: