Rap/Hip Hop is NOT music
 

How much fucking talent does it take to STEAL someone elses music and talk over it for 3 minutes? So it rhymes! Big fucfking deal! Any dipship who knows how to use a thesaurus can do that. A perfect example is that trailor trash Marshall Mathers.

I prefer REAL musicians -- ya know, people who can actually play an instrument and SING.

Just shut the fuck up you ignorant slut and talk about you know...


$am

so you prefer listening to boy bends like gaystreet boys etc.? Not every rapper "steals" music but p-diddy does :) i heard that he's buying his lyrics...

u r no good at sucking dick but u still make money off of it.

Can't base anything on Diddy cause he's more of a business man than a rapper.


$am

you forgot to include a link to your MP3

Meh, I'm kinda impartial, don't really care for rap/hip-hop more of a heavy metal person myself.

Different skills...

Just like with any genre of music you have a few MTV top 40 radio bands that are there just to make money by selling an image to teenagers.

So you prefer rock? What about these bands like Slipknot, The Strokes, White Stripes etc.? You hear any of that crap lately ? and you call rap talentless ?

Of course I can't stand these artists like 50 cent, p-diddy etc. but throw on some Emimen, Dr Dre, Black Eyes Peas, Rascalz, Snoop Dog etc. and listen to some very original music.

If you still can't manage to grip that Rap is music then just remind yourself that all music has it's roots in drum beats and chants. Rap and hiphop may have found itself in mainstream in just the past couple decades but it has close ties to the most elementary musical roots.

And for what it's worth I used to be a guitar teacher and study classical music. I listen to everything from country to death metal to jazz to hard rock etc. Rap isn't all I listen to.

please tell us whats music then...

you're talking about hiphop but you've no clue what hiphop is...

lol ... all the music is stolen :)

I don't listen to gay boy BENDS, or boy BANDS either. Rock and Roll, baby.

I lost my patience with that crap when that white ex-boy band faggot and that gay black rapper STOLE the background music from AC/DC's classic 'Back in Black'. You don't FUCK with greatness.

BTW, P-Diddy is a fag. Didn't he kill 2Pac or that 500 lb lard ass rapper (Notorious B.I.G)?

Fred Durst (Rock) stole Behind Blue eyes from the Who. Regardless of the genre, sampling will in fact - occur. If it happens, so be it. However, I do not see why this should discredit a genre as a whole? A lot of talent goes into hip-hop production, and flow/breath control/lyricism/writing goes into making a song/it's lyrics. It's not as easy as you think. It's truly not. Easier then playing/reciting a Led Zeppelin song? Of course, but it fails in comparison when comparing lyrics. The rhyme scheme is very basic. Meanwhile you've hiphop artists, leagues ahead of the game, using similies/punchlines/wordplay throughout their verses.
*This applies for underground hip-hop artists.

FYI - Groups like the roots, use live instruments in their music. Played by them. And they're hip-hop.


:2 cents:

Lately all kind of music all samples ... pop rock rap ... nothing new is beeing created. Except techno

I don't think they give a shit as long as they are banking it large.

They are, big time. They got their BLING! :)

there is some good rap floating around out there. it's good to enjoy various types of music

Thats gangsta

stick to boobs...it seems like that is all you know about

I sort of have mixed feelings about rap/hip-hop.

For one thing, I can't fucking stand listening to it. In all honesty it annoys the shit out of me.

But, I do consider (at least some of it) a form of legitimate music. Just because they're not playing a guitar or a drumset, doesn't mean that they aren't spending time and effort to honestly create something they believe in. It's just a different venue for expression. Even though I don't like it, I can still hold some respect for it.

On the other hand, simply taking a Sting or Led Zepplin song and rapping over it (Puff Daddy) is kind of a half assed effort if you ask me. Kind of an obvious example, but you can see my point.

I think one of the reasons I'm not liking rap is that the pop market has really capitalized on it so much, leading to the subsequent barrage of really bad albums geared towards sixteen year old kids. I think that's definately a huge factor in why rap gets such a bad name.

I stopped paying much attention to music right about when MTV came around and turned music into music-video.

Normal people dont decide who is played anyway, whats the difference. Payola is the name of the game.

Lip syncing is "in" so they can dance with 20 backup dancers.
They should call those "productions", not "concerts".

I feel sorta sorry for todays teenagers who have to deal with so much crap.

edit: BTW, I do consider rap and hip-hop very legitimate forms of musical art. I just dont give two shits about image or videos.

There's a massive difference between doing a legit cover of a song, and stealing / licensing a hook and looping it 120 times and calling it a song.

Slipknot I like, the strokes and white stripes can suck my left testicle... Eminem I 'like' as with Dre and Snoop, anything else can also go ahead and suck my left testicle.

Repetitiveness exists in all genres,

2 Random songs from different genres...

Extreme - Play with me

-------

Tuned down 1/2 step to Eb (Eb Ab Db Gb Bb Eb)
Intro:
e---------------------------------12----------------19-17-16-17-19-17-16-17-20-
B---12----------13----15-13-12-13-------18-17-16-17----------------------------
G------14-13-14----------------------------------------------------------------
D------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E------------------------------------------------------------------------------

tr tr
e---17-19-20-19h20p19-17-16-17---------------------------------17\--
B------------------------------17-18--------------------------------
G------------------------------------19----17(19)--16(17)--14-------
D-------------------------------------------------------------------
A-------------------------------------------------------------------
E-------------------------------------------------------------------

------

Thats just the intro...

Eminem - Just don't give a fuck....

It loops the same 5 seconds.. over.. and over... and over for 4 minutes.

-----

Anyway, I spent to much time on this post..

It is a form of expression, but I cannot class it as music...

------

[n] musical activity (singing or whistling etc.); "his music was his central interest"
[n] punishment for one's actions; "you have to face the music"; "take your medicine"
[n] any agreeable (pleasing and harmonious) sounds; "he fell asleep to the music of the wind chimes"
[n] the sounds produced by singers or musical instruments (or reproductions of such sounds)
[n] a musical composition in printed or written form; "she turned the pages of the music as he played"
[n] an artistic form of auditory communication incorporating instrumental or vocal tones in a structured and continuous manner

Strictly speaking rap isn't music and most of it is terrible just like any other form of art. But at the same time, whatever you want to call it, music or not music (if not music it's clearly a closely related artform close enough to put it in the same category as music which is why it's sold in music stores and rated in music magazines and books), much of it is better than so called real music and the 'real' musicians out there today.

Being a musician (able to play an instrument) doesn't mean you can make great music. There are many phenomenal guitar players that can run scales and play Bach on the guitar but cannot create their own original music that sounds good. Then there are those (hendrix, page) who are great musicians and who actually create good music with that skill.

I think the only reason why rap/hiphop became popular is because 1) people got bored of 'real' music, hearing the same chords and styles of music played in the same way since the 50's (remember how the 80's pop-metal scene became lame when every hair band came out with a song that sounded exactly like the one before it) and 2) people enjoy listening to a stripped-down raw version of 'real' music. Hip-hop seems to be on the opposite spectrum of music as say, thrash metal. People seem to be attracted to extreme musical forms, maybe because they think it gives them a sense of an edge, because it's material you won't hear played often on mainstream radio.

I can't listen to most rap or metal, but I do listen to quite a handful of artists and some songs that stand out and for different reasons (I admit that the actual lyrical content sometimes is questionable but I can't help but enjoy it). The musical background is a big part. For hip-hop it's also the wit that the rapper injects into the song with his lyrics, with the metal band it's the way the 'singer' sings (or screams) over the guitars. In both cases good singing doesn't even appear to be necessary element to make a great song. If true singing was necessary Mick Jagger would be out of a job and so would Robert Plant of Led Zeppelin. Both can't 'sing' but the way they 'sing' actually helps to make great sounding songs.

Our notions of what's music or not changes as our listening habits change. Many who dismissed hiphop in the early 80's are not it's biggest fans. There were times when Jazz, Rock, Punk and Metal were all not considered music and some can still make a case for it. It has a lot to do with the generation you were raised in. Most people over 40 years old don't seem to understand what the appeal of hiphop is when I think most of the appeal is simply it's aggressiveness (male oriented), it's anti-social tone and fantasy (showing lavish lifestyles of money, fame, women, and drugs), and it's deep rhythm (a way, annoyingly, to make everybody else within a mile from you know that you're driving your nice car down the street).

So to say hiphop isn't music really isn't the negative statement it's intended to be. Although I agree it's not really music...I couldn't see it being taught in music classrooms (there are no crecendos, solos, instruments, bridges etc. which you will find in traditional music pieces) because it would be one boring class for the most part studying each bar of a song because it would be identical to every other bar in the song - this is not for all rap but for most).

At the same time, rockers have been doing their own sampling/lifting off artists for years and 'instruments' like turntables have become another additional to many rock bands songs as well as have direct samples (both of these features taken from hip-hop) and deeper bass and drums.

I enjoy most forms of music (and some forms of non-music I guess you would call it?). I haven't heard a polka song to date that I like yet but I will keep my ears open.

Like Punk and Metal before it, most rap sucks, but there is genius in a lot of it that sounds great!

Oh, but now that rap is THE mainstream it does suck because we get bombarded with it every day everywhere. Any type of music heard this way is just too much overload and the media pumps out whatever it thinks it can sell good or bad. I think this adds to the disdain for rap because we hear so much of the crap rather than the best works.

Fred Durst steals everything. That mainly was made public when they did their little tour looking for a new guitar player a while back. It was found out to only be a way for them to steal music from unknowing musicians. When you auditioned you had to give them a tape of orginal music in which you signed over all rights too and then you played live for them in which they recorded and was normally different then what was on the tape. That also was signed over so if it was a piece of a song you and your band played it was now a guitar riff they could use and own. It's kinda pathetic to steal kids music who are excited and in a hurry and don't read the fine print while auditioning.
As for rap I do listen to some but to get all excited and talk about "flow/breath control/lyricism/writing" is kinda funny. they only record a line or 2 at time so how much breath and flow do they need for that and they get to record it over and over and until it sounds right. Then when most do a live show they play the CD and rap over it so they can skip parts to catch their breath and run around. Most rappers live are sad and can't do but a few lines at a time. Not saying all but most.

Could rap not be considered an artistic form of auditory communication incorporating instrumental or vocal tones in a structured and continuous manner?

funny you mentioned that particular song, half that song including the intro tab you posted is stolen directly from Mozart.

I take my statement back. By definition, at least this definition, it is music, whether it could be studied in the classroom or not is irrevelenat, I suppose:)

eminem rules. if u can make the rhymes he makes, you d be the man.

Ah, it must be wonderful to be as ignorant as you. A lot of musicians take material from other artists whether they are rappers or rockers - and transform that song to something else. I think its great to open a song that was intended for one audience and to make it be heard by another audience. And if people want to listen/buy it, why do you give a damn?


BG

RAP=Decline of western civilization....

don't agree with the message most of the time and i do not like what it is doing to kids...but hey our parents saif the same thing......



i still listen to it!

Did anyone here ask for your opinion? Just shut the fuck up and move on.

Most rap is total shit, however SOME of them boys have serious skills and are very talented. It takes a little something to put it all together, get it to bounce and get the flow right.

Rap / Hop Hop's problem is the bling-bling image that they all feel they must project. That is the ignorant part. Anyone who would come from the ghetto, makes a little money and buys a $100,000 hunk of tacky shit from Jacob The Jeweler to hang around their neck or wrist is a fool, and I won't even get started on the teeth.

< insert pic of Lil John here >

Unless they hit it really big, and use their money wisely, they will right back in the projects when it's all over.

hehe :glugglug

Shut ya zhnizzle beroe I make you twizzle dizzle motherzizzle!

To say that Hip Hop is not music , art , or any good is an uneducated comment. Rap is the urban Poetry of our generation
right now , and it's effect and influence is as widespread in not only Music but Pop Culture as a whole. I would go as far as saying that the impact of Hip Hop is as strong as Shakespear has been throughout Pop Culture.

How can you call something that incorporates some of the best rhyming cordination and delivery of words not a talent. It is the purest of artforms ! there are no instruments needed ( mostly because there were none available in the inner cities when the
music was being developed ) it's just a person and their Creativity with words and delivery telling stories. Combining the beats and instruments to the Poetry takes the artform to another level ......Musically. Music is all about story telling ...always has been ....always will be.


The impact can be seen in Music , Film , Fashion , and Marketing and Advertising ads targeted to the public. There is no other genre of music right now that has the entire world buying and selling everything it puts out.
In the face of all the critics Hip Hop has Exploded and taken over the music scene !

Now all the major companies are lining up for Sponsorship and the people who used to hate it are running around saying " Fo shizzle " , " Bling Bling " , and " Sup dawg"

People who have never had black friends , will never like black people , and would never let their daughters near a black guy in a hundred years are pumping 50 Cent in their "rides" on the way to the "Crib". lol

Most people don't know jack shit about the music and it's history and dislike it cause they don't relate to it in any way. So it should be no surprise that a 40 year old white man " can't understand " it and has negative things to say about it.

Country music is not my taste personally , and i can say that i can't really relate to alot of the things the music mentions. Cowboys , rodeos , farm living and pick up trucks don't do a damn thing for me ! lol i have never met a guy that dresses or talks like Garth Brooks or Tim McGraw in my entire life.

But i never let my lack of understanding of that way of life or style
of music be the judge of an Artists caliber. I respect the music and musicians involved , and can say that some have great voices and are amazing guitar players.
Afterall ......who the Fuck am i to judge anyone !
Critics are usually failed Artists and Musicians that are bitter over their lack of skills and creativity. So they feel that they can rip apart someone actually making a living from their Artform.

Why the hell should i care that Ebert and Roper gave a movie " 2 thumbs up" lol who the fuck are they ?? , and what do they know about acting ?? Some fat fucker sitting around watching movies for a living critizing Actors like he could do a better job.
Same with sports writers ripping an Athelete that is in the Top 10% of that sport as a " Bum" who has no skills and should not be playing. Coming from an out of shape paper pusher who never played a sport in his life. lol


The best thing is ......is that no matter what the people who put
the music down say about it .......Hip Hop has found a way to filter into Society and force a Ghetto 101 class on everyone. It's all over the music channels , all over the Award shows, the artists and music are in TV and Film ....Eminem is being played in " little Billy's " bedroom and the kids are dressing like Rappers on the way to school in small town butt fuck nowhere.

When you look at the evolution of the artform it truely is amazing.



For some of those people that don't like the whole package of Hip Hop ( clothes , videos , slangs) you might try listening to some of the lyrics and see it for it's Poetic contribrution. Some really amazing Poets are right in front of your eyes ! I would hate to have missed the brilliance of Lennon or Dylan cause of how i saw the package or how the " kids" acted who listened to them.

I reccomend you pick up The Rose that Grew from Concrete by Tupac Shakur. Some of the best Poetry i have read to date.


:2 cents:

hmmm, I guess someone isn't old enough to remember Elvis Presley "stealing" rock and roll from the r&b musicians...

;)

You wouldn't have liked Elvis if you were born in the 50's either.

Music evolves with or without you :glugglug

HAHA! Spoken like the TRUE sigwhore...

1800 posts in one month?
i will bet they are all full of wisdom like this one....

agreed :)

Most Electronic music is all original, there are tons and tons of remixes/plays on though. I can't count how many times I have heard the rythym of Ian Van Dahl's "Heaven" in other works.

Electronic music is the shit.

saw N*E*R*D live and they rap and play intstruments. they brought down the house and every hot chick in Portland was yelling Ferrell's name. I agree you have to sift through the shit to find the shiz, but its there.

Two words makes this whole thread null and void.

The Roots.

There is no such thing as "music", only sound being varying vibrations of air molecules.

opinions. assholes. you know where I'm going with ths

Rap is not music. Its been around for fifty years. Blacks used to see who could out do others by rapping(shucking,jiving,etc) best in the ghetto's. Rudy Ray Moore was one of the first well known rappers, and the most fowl mouthed. Blondie was the first to put it to music I believe(eating subaru's).

Shut a fuck up...RAP RULEZZZZ:thumbsup

mu·sic Audio pronunciation of "music" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (myzk)
n.

1. The art of arranging sounds in time so as to produce a continuous, unified, and evocative composition, as through melody, harmony, rhythm, and timbre.

As much as it pains me to say it, Rap/Hip Hop IS music.. move along.. argument over.

Now everybody in the 202, throw your hands in the air 'cause Fat Joe is through / Now everybody in the 202, throw 'em up! Check it out / I'm a white boy, but my neck is red / I put Miracle Whip on my Wonder Bread / My face is pale, nah, I've never been in jail / Me and Buffy spend every winter at Vail / How many bitches have I slapped? Zero. Unh! / And Martha Stewart happens to be my hero / I grew up on a farm and I was born with no rhythm / Dr. Phil's my uncle and I like to hang with him / I can't dance / I wear khaki pants / My middle name's Lance / My Grandma's from France / So maybe I'm wack / 'Cause my skin ain't black / But you can't talk smack / 'Cause whitey just struck back.

You my friend... are what they call in rap as a "HATER"

SM3 right ? :1orglaugh