Guns - Should there be MORE gun control?
 

With the recent high school shooting in San Diego we're reminded yet AGAIN about how ubiquitous guns are in our society.

Some blame lack of education, others say that it's a lack of keeping their guns locked up or putting safety devices on them. I say that it's time people woke up and just realized that maybe we as a country, should rethink this whole "Right to bear arms" crap. This amendment was created in a time when it was common to carry guns, and because it was still a time of survival of the fittest, protect your land from the bad guys, etc...

And the lamest BS I've heard advocating guns is "Guns don't kill people, people do." I'd like to see any schmuck with a butcher knife mow down 11 in a room or hallway. Sure he might be able to bury that thing in 2 or 3 people before getting his ass jumped on by everyone else.

What's it going to take to wake this country up? A mass shooting every week? What has happened is we've become desensitized. If you would play today's news for an audience 20 years ago, they'd be appalled at these mass shootings and wouldn't take it as casually as we are.

Keep the guns in the hands of the people they belong in. Cops, law enforcement, etc...

hmm what do you wanna do against it???


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Life's a bitch

Yep the neighbors can always call the cops to clean up the bodies after a home invasion. They get to the scene so timely! The last bad call here with a man with a gun, the police didn't respond for 32 minutes since they were breaking up a domestic. He shot and killed several people. Too bad one of the people on that street didn't have a gun and the nerve to use it. btw, a person with a knife? No one will jump him. They run. He'd get as many with that as with a gun in a crowded school. They are crazies. You can't put sane thinking in to play when dealing with mental cases. Or just toss a propane tank out with a detonator. Why bother with gun? Good thing we use charcoal grills. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

thank you Hazen http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

I can't help but notice that the US seems to be the only country where mass shootings in schools and the work place happens on a fairly regular basis. I know it happens in other places across the world but not nearly as often.

Ok here is the deal. The problem is because people with kids are irresponsable. There I said it. If you don't know that your kid is going to school with a gun and killing people. Unit after the fact then you are a bad parent. These Kids are crying out for help for CHRIST SAKE. WAKE UP PEOPLE. Banning guns will do no good. How can you possibly get the idea to take them away. It is NOT the answer. Ex felons can't have guns. But they do anyways all the time. So why do you think a law that bans them will keep people from having them? Are you all idiots? Low IQ's from inbreading or somethine. "Hey pa me is gunna go shoot some people" "OK Boy Have fun" "thats nice honey"... FUCKING WAKE UP!!!!!!!!! JESUS. Why? You can not make a little fairy world where just the cops have guns. It doesn't work that way. What does everybody else think?

Statistically speaking a person is more likely to be injured in their own home by their own weapon than by a strangers gun. It's true that the constitition gives us the right to bear arms, but the constitution also gives us the right to ammend the constitution when it no longer suits the common good. I think limited gun control is a great idea. I think people should have to pass a safety training course before being able to buy guns or ammunition for guns they already have. I don't like the idea of making people register their guns because it gives the government too much power, but I don't see why we can't implement a safety test. We make people take one to drive. Why wouldn't we make people take one to carry a lethal weapon?

Enchantress

Because weapons are meant to hurt people
/ animals.. A car is meant to take you
somewhere.

True, but also your kids friends have
influence on the behaviour of your kid.
It's hard to stay away from alcohol/drugs
these days if you're a kid..

the US is always a few years earlier, but
it happens more often in Europe too.
Within 10 years the same will be happening
here in Europe.



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Life's a bitch

I'm a little pissed at the whole anti-gun establishment right now.

I saw a report on the news where a local school canceled a Civil War re-enactment because there would be "kids pointing guns at other kids." The principal & the school knew that the re-enactment would have toy guns several weeks ago. It wasn't until after the shooting in San Diego did they decide to cancel it.

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Banning guns won't work. Sure the law abiding citizens will turn their guns in, but do you think the criminals will? I think not.
Look what happened in Australia, they banned guns and crime has gone up. It's like giving the bad guys the go ahead since they know the homeowner that they are robbing won't have a gun to defend his home.
I believe there should be a mandatory 7 day waiting period and mandatory safety training.
and that means parents need to implement gun safety in the home, if they are going to keep one.
I used to be very anti-gun, but I see the need to be able to defend one's home and taking away the second amendment leads the way for the government to take away our other rights. (and when that happens, how will you defend yourself from the government?)

Red


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We're with you Killerelf. My old man paddled his kids and be d*mned with the law. They are teens now. I had been against paddling all my adult life until the last few yrs. His son is 4 inches taller and 40 pounds heavier but all it takes is a Hey, knock that off and it gets a Yes Sir. Time outs surely teach them well eh?

We've taken and passed the safety courses on having weapons. Turns out the hubby had more experience than the trainer. lol He was taught from age 5 to handle weapons. Licensing the handler leads to licensing the weapon at the same time. Enforced saftey and training courses would be great.

Something that enforces the deadliness of any gun is to take a child out and shoot water filled milk jugs. The hubby trained his kids that way (as well as other parents doing it) They can see the devastation that a bullet does and if done enough, it will stick in their minds that a bullet kills and the person doesn't get back up and say ok lets go again.

I wish the World was a better place and no one had to keep a loaded weapon close by. The facts are it isn't and we do. I'll be damned if some low life is going to kill me without even a chance to defend myself. I may die anyhow but I'd rather go out fighting or at least having the option-chance.

I suppose next we'll have to get rid of watch dogs too since they are deadly weapons. I'm going to miss the steak knives. And darn pencils are deadly weapons as well. Living with some one trained to use the weapons at hand opens ones eyes. And all that info is online for anyone to find. Freedom of speech is meant up and until it infringes on others rights. Just as all the other rights are meant to be. Take one of the bill of rights away and the others will go with it, one at a time.

And yes Dyanna. I had a gun to my head once. I never will forget the clicking of the old mans gun as he cocked it against the guys head. And he even used that witty Eastwood saying. Feel lucky punk? Why don't they break in when people are home????? Because we may have a gun. They are basic cowards looking for that easy mark.

Lets focus next on that nasty bludgeoning weapon, the hammer. Personally I'd rather be shot. We should write up a list of banned possible weapons! Gosh we can't even revert to stone age people! Stones are weapons. We're going west to where they allow the side arms. Lower crime too.

You go Red! Someone living in a country with a smaller population just can't quite grasp the concept of the need.

Everyone loves to say "banning guns won't work" and "If guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns"

What about England, Japan, all of europe? It works there.

I have several guns, I know most gun owners are very responsible with them. The thing is those responsible people are the ones that object to laws that screen out the psychos. The NRA is the reason these kids can get guns, they're the reason a kit to make a weapon fully automatic is legal. At some point you're going to have to decide which is more important, your guns or your kids.

I'd give up my guns gladly if it would stop 1% of the murders that will happen this year.

Of course I have a pit bull and I'm shaped like a gorilla - so I can protect myself just fine. My sister and the woman I love both have (and sometimes carry) guns, I'm not saying we should take them away, I'm saying why does it have to be so fucking easy to get one?

[This message has been edited by Warphead (edited 03-06-2001).]

Gemini, a lot of good your gun at home will do protecting your kids in school. And as for the kids doing the shooting in schools, where do you think they're getting them from?

As for getting rid of watch dogs, where's the reasoning there? Steak knives, pencils, hammers, your argument is beginning to sound like an episode of "This Old House." I'm surprised you didn't throw in cars too.

It's highly unlikely a ban on guns would ever take place. Even if Bush never made it to the White House, or the NRA didn't exist. But say it did happen. You're looking at a long term fix there, not something that would change everything overnight.

Hell, I could be wrong, but didn't the police in Britain carry billy clubs up until recently? I wonder if those pencils are working out.

Things are changing, slowly. With legislation that allows victims to sue the gun maker, the shit is hitting the fan. Smith & Wesson, once a highly respected name int he industry is being reduced to the point of contemplating bankruptcy. Their strategy of adopting regulation with the government in hopes that other gun makers would follow, isn't playing out the way they anticipated. And now, some gun dealers are reluctant to carry them.

I fucking hate guns and believe they generate evil all on their own. Just the same, I don't think that guns per se are the problem here.

It's a mental health problem. We are so quick to call anyone that has any trouble handling reality "weak". We would rather ignore their troubles and hope they "just get over it" instead of giving them the help they need. We turn a blind eye to them until they act out.

I also think too many folks in this country actually believe that Flicks like "Death Wish" and "Dirty Harry" are real life. They honestly think they can go get revenge and all will turn out sunny in the end. Hell, even Clint Eastwood himself realized the flaw in that mindset. That's why he made "The Unforgiven".



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tit,
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Less gun control, more child control.

Just fry the bastard child, not the gun.

Red,

True crime has gone up, but we dont have massacres anymore. Taking away Guns wont solve crime, but it WILL reduce the severity of the crimes.

The real problem lies with society. The fact that people get things so easy these days makes them bored and frustrated. They snap to easy and go and grab the nearest weapon. Would you rather that be a gun or a knife???

Reduction is a Start!

Wildman.

let me respond to this topic just once and I will let you fight it out.

I believe banning guns will have negtive affect.

ok lets say we ban our guns and have evrybody in the country turn them in and melt them into cars or something. now there is no legal guns except in the law enforcement.

now comes the kicker.

We as a country banned drugs. We burn, bury, destroy whatever drugs we seize in this country. But today there is more drugs available out there than there ever was before. We will just open another door for people to make more money in illegal ways than before. You can't tell me that a drug smuggler is going to draw the line at hauling a few pistols or rifles with his shippment of drugs. He don't care he is going to make money either way, or get busted.

We need to go after the main source. And that main source is people. not the gun manufacters, but the people that use guns illegaly. make the punish strong, enforce the punishment.

These people that want to take away our rights to guns are also the ones that coddle the cons and give them more rights than the vitcim. the con didn't give their victim their rights so why should we coodle the con.

I said my 2 cents worth and maybe abit more.

lol on the this old house. I was merely pointing out that most things around us are weapons. And its a comparison to the bill of rights as well. Take one and the rest will follow. So if we give up guns... then the dogs since they CAN be viscious as well as uncontrollable weapons. then whats next.

And after speaking to someone close to me and seeing the scars day and night for several years. Go for getting shot over the knife. *IF* someone dies by a knife, it's rare that its one stab. Knives downright hurt I'm told. No shock to the system so its instantaneous pain. Ouchs I don't like. And multiple stab wounds mess up the wardrobe http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/wink.gif

I would bet free speech goes right after the second admendment. Look at history. The first way to defend is the gun, so its gone. Second is the power of the word. So its going to go and who can stop em? History has born that out since ancient times. Read up on Chinese history some time. Where do you think the staff or the nun chukas came from? After their real weapons were taken (metal ones) they adopted the tool they used to beat rice when it was ripened as a weapon. They still don't have any guns and have no freedoms either. Oh well. I've got to stop beating my head on the desk. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif But history does bear this out and it rarely changes in sme huge way. Just the details change but the storyline is the same

That is a good point Gemini, the deadliest maritial arts on earth were created because weapons were taken away.

The thing is, there's only so much damage someone can do with any improvised weapon, when you compare to the guns these kids are using.

Very true Warp! I spend every day with an ex pro martial artist. lol But it just points out that take the guns, then something else replaces them. I shiver when I think that with a couple of small parts and ma and pa's propane grill tank could be substituted for a 9mm in some nuts hands. I guess I think I have at least a chance to duck when a gun is involved. Duck a blast?? Nope http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/frown.gif

Other countries leaders have done the same things. Hitler is one everyone knows. It's just a step in ruling the population with no accountability as Dubya puts it. Who thinks guns will be outlawed in Alaska where to go to the outhouse, you carry your weapon? There are just many variables in all of this mess to be blaming someting that lies inert until its handled.

Thinking clearly since this 5am timeslot is our time to live, you have to go to the SOURCE---S, not one source or not the tool used. Drunk drivers use cars. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif Never seen the car spend 90 days yet. They kill people too. I believe it used to be more than guns but I wouldn't think its that now. I dunno.

But whining and disbelief won't cure this problem. Oh and I believe one Chinese Emporer even tried to outlaw the common tools turned weapon but fortunatly they could make them faster than take them. How many machine shops out there will turn to 24 hour shifts on the sly? And I highly doubt the local pushers turn theirs in and will get em or make em as fast as they can take em.

I'm glad I'm not American, you guys are some fucked up kids.

Lets see off the top of my head:

Waco
Columbine
several post office shootings
several schoolyard shootings
Oklahoma city

What the fuck is wrong with you people?
Why are Canadians the greatest?

There are no simple answer to these questions. I think General Electric has spiked your water supply or something. You guys seem to be getting more retarded every day.

Hey Jim... you think it might have something to do with the fact that there's more people in an average American state than in all of Canada?

To be honest I don't have any answers. Since we're actually having an intelligent discussion rather than calling names, I'm thinking though.

First of all you can't compare drug prohibition with taking away the guns. The war on drugs is a complete failure and always will be, prohibition increases demand rather than diminishes it.

That's just another of about 10 HUGE problems in the US that will never be solved until people get smarter.

It is bad parenting. Again we who don't have children are expected to make sacrifices for those who do. If sacrificing my guns would save your children I'd do it, it just pisses me off that many of you with kids wouldn't. Parents suck nowdays. Maybe children should be illegal.

I heard something about it being proposed that parents can be arrested for the actions of the children, I think that would be great. I'd love to see the columbine kid's parents getting life without parole. Maybe parents these days are so sure the world will take care of their kids they don't bother - I mean that is the case isn't it?

Parent's don't need to monitor what the kids watch on TV, we censor TV so it's all ok, nevermind the fact that I'm 29 years old and want to hear them say "shit" on NYPD Blue. Why should anything be made for me? I'm just a tax-paying adult without children. If I were in the UK I could see some boobies on network television, but I'm here in the land of the free where we can all say anything we want so long as everyone in the country approves of it.

And don't think I'm saying you're right Gemini, I'm just saying I don't know if I am.

My main bitch with people who love guns are: When we lost a little more of our right to express ourselves (flag-burning) you cheered. When we lost a whole lot of our rights with the anti-terrorism act you cheered again. The "right to bear arms" is completely misinterpreted but it's the only right that anyone seems to care about.

I don't see what good having easy-access to guns does, but it's real easy to see the damage it does.

sweetjimmy- Don't be such a dildo, Canadians still have school shootings. There was one in Alberta (i think) in 2000. We just have less.

I must say that the right to bear arms is a stupid fucking rule that is misinterpreted. It allows citizens the right to a militia, not the right to own assault weapons for "hunting".

Just my two cents...

I think you guys are looking at this the wrong way - you will never be able to outlaw guns. Look at the Swiss - EVERY home in Switzerland is equipped with a weapon - and every family is taught how to to safely use and take care of that weapon properly.

Crime is near unexistant - and I have yet to hear of any swiss schools being shot to hell from a pissed off kid - they KNOW better! They dont "play" with guns, they teach their children what guns are for and their uses.

EDUCATION is the key - Parents need to take some responsibilty for their kids. Americans have become afraid to discipline their children.

Danielle

Everyone has the right to own a gun.......

I wonder how many lives would be lost if burglars and rapists knew he didn't have to worry about being shot in the fucking head.

Who can keep those stats?

It's a stupid argument. I'm sick of the whining ass anti gun people.

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tit,
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Titmowse, ingredients are 4 tacos and two bean burritos, lots of hot sauce and it whines for hours! lmao

We have 3 'kids' between the old man and I from 13 to 23. All 3 have been taught to handle weapons. His two from age 5 up just as he was. Those two are also proficient in ever weapon we have. They were also taught the basic skills of right and wrong. His son has had the school fist fights but never once has he said he wanted to shoot the kid even when he lost the fight. (I'm not advocating fighting at all but if they must, then the "out back at 3 o'clock punk" should apply. Not 'noon on main street'.

We're not gun LOVERS either. We're just realists. Anyone that wants to allow someone else the right to come in to your home or up to you on the street and kill you for the 20 bucks in your pocket seems to be the people with the problem. Lock up the idiots and we'd turn them in. But that will never happen eh? Others would complain about the cost of doint THAT. So status quo. Crooks in the street, guns in the belts.

Teach the darn kids better behaviour. It can be done even in divorced families! The old man would tell you from the first he doesn't think he's a very good Dad. But his kids are examples of well behaved children! Take the responsibilty for them since you had em. If they don't respond correctly, then seek help to find the problem. Just on TV last night, you should know by about age 7 if they are risks and get the help then and there. The 'grow out of it' doesn't apply to alot of children. Sort of like if kids were stealing cars constantly then we should turn them in. Cars are just another tool too. And JUST as deadly!!

I cried yesterday when I saw one of the classmates of this new blaze of glory kid comment. I can't give you an exact quote but here is the jist of what he said:

"I don't blame him. I am tired of blaming people. It's time to help people."

Out of the mouths of babes.

My point, and I can't stress this enough is that we have GOT to friggin stop blinding ourselves to effects of our actions on other people. Yeah, yeah, I was made fun of and taunted in school too and I did not get a gun and shoot people.

But I remember those kids. The quiet ones that were taunted and terrorized who for whatever reason did not fight back. Even though others knew what was happening to them was unfair and cruel, no one ever did anything about it. They just let it happen because they were afraid that if they stepped in they would suffer the same humiliating fate.

Not me. When the bullies picked on them, I would step in and tell em to "Take me on."

After a while they stopped bullying them and me too cause they knew that I didn't give a shit what they thought of me and they would get a verbal ass whooping if they messed with my little nerd friends.

Kids are cruel. Bullshit! Kids are parrots of their surroundings. Teach your kids to defend those that are defensless. Teach them that cruelty is never acceptable.

Aw, shit I dunno. I'm too tired of this crap.

This crap is going to continue with kids and adults. We are going to see more and more shootings. I don't have the answers. I just know this ain't over.


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tit,
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NO.. Gun control laws are not the problem

Don't blame guns, blame the media. These outcast children are just dying for attention... from their parents, from their peer groups, from anyone. When they don't get it through normal channels, they resort to what they know best: TV. The media beats these tragedies to death, asking over and over again: "how did this middle-class white boy go bad?" It's not news, its sensationalism for sensationalism's sake. These kids equate being on TV with hero status. Since Columbine, even the most marginal adolescent knows he or she can gain instant fame just by pulling the trigger. Shame on the media for encouraging this behaviour.

Guns don't kill........ it's the fucking bullets ya' gotta watch out for.

License the guns, criminals who have em get them taken away.

Parents who leave them under their bed loaded where kids can get them get charged

A mentally disturbed kid with a knife can kill less people than a kid with a semi automatic

Did you hear about that one tonight a three year old got his hands on a revolver and shot himself in the head... dead

stupid enough people who leave loaded weapons around where kids, let alone three-year-olds really need to give their heads a shake

Unfortunately the gun issue is like the abortion issue, people either label you for it or against it, so there is no room for common sense.

Guns don't belong in the hands of kids, stupid people or criminals, christ the police in many areas are out gunned by the drug lords and gangs, how stupid is that?

oh well my blurb on this

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Jill my friend and I were discussing the exact same thing last night. I think the biggest problem is that the media doesn't show what happens afterwards to the criminal kids. They just see them getting alot of attention.
As far as keeping guns out of the house, the 2 boys from Columbine got the guns from a friend, not their parents.
I've said this before, but I was raised with guns in the home. Always in the home. My grandparents have guns, my aunts and uncles, everybody in my family.
Now I know I'll catch shit for this, but I think all kids should be taken out and taught how to shoot. Just like Gemini's kids I was taught to shoot at an early age and therefore was shown what a gun could do to a milk jug full of water. Younger kids don't realize the power a gun has. They see people being shot on tv and the movies, but it's not like real life.

We must always make sure we can match the fire power of the police force

There is NO need for guns in any community. Cops have guns to contol crime. I live in Toronto. Its a big city and gun control is very strict. Yes there are shootings but per capita, its not nearly as bad as any city in the States.

There you go NakedChik. He used the milk jug thing from the time they were a year old when he went target shooting. When they hit 5, he helped them fire a 22 pistol in to the jug themselves, right after showing them how SMALL the bullet was. By the time they hit 6 or 7, they were in awe and by 9 had the full understanding of the uncontrollable power they had in their hands.

You also have to teach them to ignore peer pressure tho. Just last night on 48 hours or whatever, they had a really scary show. True they 'baited' the younger kids unfairly by planting the real guns in TOYboxes of all things. But the teeneagers went all macho even tho they had just bee thru 'training' classes on gun safety. Those classes didn't appear to have any real guns there. Nor did they see them shot, what happens when something 'real' (jug of water etc) GETS shot or the aftermath. We don't think you can teach them without showing what happens. Kids respond to seeing not talking.

I was 36 before *I* shot my first jug of water. And I had shot at rabbits and groundhogs etc while I lived on a farm for 12 years. lol Fortunetly for the rabbits my ex didn't teach me to shoot too well. This hubby taught me better, first with the jugs which really scared me, then to hit the eye in that rabbit. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

To RIP. Licensing or confiscation won't work with guys already commiting felonies. It just screws over the legal owners with added costs, time, and really ignorant regulations.

Whatever happened to the parents that had locks on their bedroom doors??? We lock ours in the safe BEHIND a locked door as well. (Umm the ones that don't travel with us anyhow, lol) If they ever DO manage to ban guns then there will be at LEAST 20 million new law breakers. Very few will hand them over quietly. Fair trade value for a silver inlayed presentation grade 12 gauge shotgun in one city that decreed all guns illegal... 100 bucks, the true value of the weapon was $12,000. FAIR?

We want to outlaw BMW's. We'll pay 100 for everyone handed in to us. Email me for directions. lol Doing that will cut down on yuppie related incidents!

I feel strongly about this subject...but i also have alot of views

i kinda agree with the earlier post ,if you make something illegal, it becomes a bigger problem.

but there should be stricter limits and laws for gun ownership to the public.

why would anyone want a gun if they have kids in the house anyways. for protection? sorry my friend, it'd do more harm than good.

i think there should be a longer waiting period. because people that are planning on doing something with the gun wont wanna wait forever to get a gun. you'd be surprised at how many guns wouldnt be sold if there was a longer waiting period.

and some police departments are trading in their guns for the rubber-bullet guns. they drop a person to their knees just as easily!

i can go on and on...but I wont...thats just my thoughts http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

Here's the easy solution:

Don't worry about banning guns, just make the following illegal and everything will be all right:
1) Murder
2) Robbery
3) Rape
4) Assault

What's that you say? These things are already against the law and yet they still exist? Well then, I guess another 100 laws against guns won't do much against those people that really want to get/use one.

im all for gun control.

the more the merrier. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

i know the us is much more populus than canada. but, more people die from gun related deaths in one day in the us than in a full year in canada.

The gun control I believe in is:

1)Holding the gun steady
2)Hitting what you're aiming at

ps I do believe however, that anyone who uses a gun in the commission of a crime should get the maximum penalty the law can give.