The problem with us shooting custom
 

I come from a business where shooting non-exclusive and selling it country by country, first and second rights is the only way to go.

For instance a good magazine set would sell in UK, US, EU, Australia and Japan. Maybe not every set, every time but enough to make it worth while. The same with videos, they would sell country by country.

An average to good set is worth $3,000 minimum. Problem is they are hard to shoot, the girls have to be good and the most we can sell in a year is 120.

On video we have a UK company paying us $300 for non-exclusive video, to go with a picture set that is exclusive for a year. Plus I have just been speaking to a contact who will pay $10 to $30 a minute for non-exclusive video to be sold on tape via mail order in a single country.

Now with the Internet we have another place to sell our content via the content stores. And possibly paysites in the future.

So how do we feel when a paysite offers us $300 to shoot a solo girl set and video or even as much as $1,000 for a boy girl set? We politely turn themn down and tell them the price is $450 for solo or $2,000 for boy-girl.

The Internet is fast becoming the prime area for people to buy porn, it's private, easy, cheap and the selection is awesome. This is the fastest growing porn market, magazines are shrinking and videos are stagnent. This is where the business is.

However some companies need to pull themselves out of the "Price" rut. If they do not they will disappear to be replaced by companies with the balls and money to rise above the rest.

And please do not tell me you can't afford it. If an exclusive solo video and set that you can do with as you please, give to affiliates, put up as many time as you like is not worth the cost of 15 sign ups (using the $30 a month price) then custom is not as good as I'm told.

Discuss.

just becouse someone else is willing to pay a higher amount dont mean we are going to pay it. we have been gettin decent cheap content from you for years, and now that someone offers you more bread you think upping the price is going to cut it?

youll lose a huge client base if thats your thinking.

Charly, I think you posted this a year or less ago. Same thread. Is the search feature broke ?

Yep, custom shooters should charge $3000 per set... that way, we'll be the only ones left standing :)

No woories we will continue to sell non-exclusive, the non-exclusive market is worth more than 90% of paysites will pay for exclusive custom and we still have all the other markets.

Think about it a set and a video and I can't get most to pay $450, thats less than 10 sales on a set and video together.


Brujah
I know and prices are less now than a year ago. Seems a year later and nothing has changed.

What do you think will happen when paysites force content prices down to the lowest they can get and good producers have given up?

I think a few will rise above and make major money.

I think the good idea is to invest in some custom work for free tours and front pages -then fill the members area with quality non excl. content.I think lot of paysite owners do it this way today.
Anyway if you are focused on some special niche then must go with exclusive stuff - its a must
Also don't forget that you can find lot of guys around shooting for few bucks - they simply can live on it - the only issue to discuss is quality then.So its always about quality / price + if you have some money and are willing to invest in custom then do it - will bring you some exlcusivity for your site....
:2 cents:

Yes I think a lot of custom US shooters are feeling the pinch from the new Eastern European shooters. Bottom line is does it convert and retain as well as theirs. Yours is some of the better stuff I've seen recently.

We are being quoted all the time that "Ivan and Boris" can shoot it cheaper, thing is when I look at it I wonder if the surfer WHO PAYS FOR PORN will sign up for this content.

If the answer is no the buyer can't go out and buy again. It's the paying consumer who dictates what is shot.

Charly, are you coming to Mallorca?:glugglug

Why not mix it up. Do some custom, and do some multisales shoots. This way you're spreading yourself out and customers coming back for resold content might drop some money on custom content.

Why should I pay you $ 2000 for a boy/girl scene if I can
get if from another producer for $ 250?????


:)

Simply put?

My stuff will convert more than his, if he could shoot to our standards he would not be selling it so cheap. That or he's a fool.

Assuming you can tell the difference, but if you cannot then be sure the consumer can.

Of course if you can buy a Porsche for the price of a Skoda then go for it. Truth is you can't.

We do we have two custom clients who pay the right money. The rest we politely say no to. Unless he's a total jerk off. :1orglaugh

We can't shoot enough for ourselves at the moment, down to releasing 10 sets a week. So not looking for more cheap biz.

did you see the new girls on top bucks siite? they went so cheap it looks like they took anybody that applied and was not overweight.

The members want porn. They do not realize the difference between good or not so good.

I asked in one of my threads for exclusive videos and got an offer
from a californian producer:

boy/girl 250 $

No decision so far because I think I can get it cheaper from eastern europe.

Agreed any site starting out today 100% exclusive will need a LOT of money. Even regular sites are best mixing it, Exclusive, non-exclusive and content blow outs.

But for a tour it should be exclusive and GOOD. If a buyer is going to cut corners here be careful it does not show, the potential member needs something to impress him on a tour these days. And that ain't going to come cheap.

We even get people wanting to design tours out of content on www.bargainbasementcontent.com. Please this is filler or TGP content, not tour and design content.

That is ridiculous, and I think you're blowing smoke. There's no way boy / girl can be shot for that cheap.

What will your next job be? :1orglaugh

Seriously those days are over and if you put up any old crap and get surfers to sign up then you are a better man than the rest of us. Lensman is a millionaire because his sites are good.

So what is your Paysite and Cash program becasue there must be 100s of webmasters here who would love to send traffic to your "I can buy it cheaper in Russia" paysite.

If you don't do it for the members, think about the webmasters you are trying to recruit.

Wish we could but simply do not have time. Got so much work to do it's getting to be a drag.

That and David Bowie playing here the same week. :1orglaugh

As I said, if you do not do it for the member do it for the webmasters.

These guys know what is good and will convert their traffic.

this is ridiculous, so much shit being put on Russia.

I am not Russian and do not give a fuck. But too much is too much. I think those guys that are shitting on Russia have not been to Moscow or St. Petersburg in their whole fucking life

sorry, for the language. But look where Czech, Slovakia or oll these other shitty places were 15 years ago. This is where Russia is now, but the future looks bright :thumbsup

Martin

I have also seen an offer from an Eastern Europe website
for 250 $.

It`s not ridiculous. It`s the reality!

Today are too many producers out there and only a few content
buyers.

The market makes the prices!

I buy it in Russia and I have just great results .. There are many many providers out there and some of them do very quality job with (what is the most important) great looking girls and couples.
And they have chepaer prices caz of the cheaper expenses.

You can have shitty quality 5 min clip that you can hardly see something but it will make surfers buying much more then some quality movie 30 movie...

I was in Moscow last New Year..
I never had so much fun!

OK point taken. When I say "Russian" I mean some of the newer shooters without the skills to shoot it properly and use girls that really are not good enough.

I've seen content form guys in the US that totally sucks. So from now when I say "Russian" I mean "New and inexperienced"

Everyone needs to learn and they need to be told what they are doing wrong. They need to be turned down a few times. It's part of learning. A mistake is a positive thing if you use it to learn by.

Charly/Paul Markham.. You're an arsehole..

I'm still waiting for the email from you apologising for publishing my details and incorrectly in another thread.. Your mistake was pointed out by at least 3 other webmasters....

I will haunt you till I receive the apology at webmaster at ravishingindians.com or webmaster at indianpornlords dot net which was the domain of mine you flamed without realising what a twat you are !!!

You're a sad old man.. Get your act together and wear stronger glasses so you can read the posts here !!!!

Honestly I do not believe you.

If the guy can shoot boy-girl why would he sell it so cheap? There are big programs who will buy all he can produce for $800-$1,000 a scene.

So show us where this stuff is on your site, prove me wrong.

Do you want to explain?

I never saw your reply I've been in Prague for a few days.

BWAAHAHAHAHHAAHH.............. you are so full of shit. $250 for b/g in California. Name the guy who is going to shoot exclusive b/g for $250.

Alone we pay the male talent more than $250.

I do have people telling me that they are getting exclusives for $1200 - that's doable, barely, but you're going to get content with girls who have been around the block many times. you want new fresh talent from L.A. you pay the going rate - $800-1000 to the girl for b/g. End of story.

He could talking about a producer and his mate giving a crack whore $200 and them both getting a free shag and a dose of something nasty.

Kerb I've got a bridge for sale, only $500 via Paypal and it's yours.

It's in San Francisco harbour. :1orglaugh

like anything else in this business, only time will tell

IM not feeling a pinch... well actually only pinch Im feeling is my wallet is getting too ful. My buisness is fucking through the roof. Just bought new car , Harley , Got new studio and new home November 1st. On top of going to Prague every 3 or 4 months to shoot the European girls. So at least this custom shooter isnt feeling it

This is not true at all.

Customers don't see any differences. This is why I never wanted to pay the fees you asked me for custom shooting.

I shoot my own content and I am a pretty shitty photographer.
My pictures and videos are very amateurish.

I have been converting 1:140 for over a year now. ( When I started to offer exclusive content. )

So, stricly talking business, there is no way I would pay 1000$ for a custom shooting when most can do it for 400-600$.

surfers don't see any difference at all.

What should be discussed Paul, it's like you said it.

Another guy who thinks porn surfers do not know the difference between good porn and bad porn, or are you able to shoot good porn?

Thing is they are learning fast and today if you deliver bad porn you will get ignored by the surfer or webmaster or the surfer will charge back.

The days of delivering crap are over.

Assume your traffic, the ones that sign up, have been members of 2-4 sites before and know what they are buying. Then you will be in a better position to deleiver.

Show us your site and let us see what you're shooting.

I just had a thought, unusual for me I know :), but if you never bought my content how do you know how well it converts?

Also I would say my content and something you would shoot is like comparing apples with oranges.

There is noway to offer exclusive content in the b/g for $250 or even $1200 . If you have to pay for the boy and the girl there is nothing left. You talk about quality of the content , I think most here dont care and they really dont realize the power of good content. Our site is one of the most expensive in the niche and we are softcore to boot but we do very well because of content quality.

:thumbsup

You don't understand shit don't you ?
Maybe do you understand what you want to understand ?

I sometimes have serious doubt about your intelligence.


I just wrote that I am an awful photographer. But my surfers like my models and I am making a good living ( + - 250 000/year )

You think I don't know the industry and feel someone by giving me crap advices ? I don't care. I don't have anything to proove here.

You asked the question:

Why should people pay more to get my content ? And gave an innacurate answer to your own questions.

You don't like my answer ? Then why are you asking the question here on GFY if you bash people who don't think like you ?

I bought your content but never bought custom shooting from you. Was it that hard to understand ?

Very good point, you have to know good content yourself to buy it. Some I'm afraid do not. How many times do you see a "Teen" site with a 21 year old in pig tails or similar examples?

I'm seriously interested to know who you are. Becasue the style I shoot is not something an "awful photographer" can copy. The two styles are very different and what would work on one site will not work on another. The bought in content more resembles what an "awful photographer" would shoot.

So did you buy my content or something we bought in?

Tell us your site so we can see what you shoot. You might even interest some webmasters to join your program.

Bad photography of a girl can work and I should know, I've been supplying bad pictures to magazines for years, for their "Readers Wives" sections. Or did you all think those pictures were actually all sent in by readers? :1orglaugh

I once costed shooting for yourself and came out at $100 a set assuming you could shoot 800 sets in the first year. An awesome task, less makes it more expensive.

Camera. $1300
Studio Flash lights. $500
Flash metre. $300
Location. $80
Props, $20 a week.
Photography books. $100
Models $300 to $500 a day for solo girl.

So that works out to equipment and books $2100, props $1,000, locations I've calculated you could shoot half outdoors $4,000 and $40,000 for the models. Total cost $47,000 for 800 sets.

With a few bits and pieces you are at $60 a set. Good price for an exclusive set. And look at all the naked women you got to see!

But then I costed the shooters time and put up against it what he would earn driving traffic to his site and converting 5 a day. So put in an extra $150 a day. Put the price at over $100 a set and I did not include the cost of a video camera, software to edit and time to edit.

A lot cheaper than me, but not a cheap exercise and unless you have talent, that some do have, the learning curve will bankrupt you.

neither the webmaster nor the content producer decides what the content is "worth".

the surfer does.

and that determines what the content ultimately can be sold at.

and the shooter with some creative imagination and some understanding of the physics of light, and an aesthetic sense can make surfers line up to see the content.

lots of money thrown at models who are then poorly photographed does not necessarily create conversions.

the glamour market is mostly gone. the market is saturated with pretty girls posed in studio shots. it no longer does it.

the surfer will respond to the average girl photographed in an enticing and unusual way that invokes the surfers' imagination.

otherwise, we are just taking pictures of pretty rocks, or kitchen faucets.

POV could work---if the girl could talk while looking into the lens and make it believable---but that requires planning and some direction---and is impossible for 95% of the "content" producers because they will never understand the mindset of that solitary surfer sitting at his monitor.

That wasn't what I was talking about Herb, your original comment was that you could find California producers selling M/F for $250. Show me who's selling for that low?

Charly = Bigotry at its best!

Lol yeah I have noticed that.. some reality sites are getting some fugly women lately.