Consider this on Acacia
 

A group of attorneys come to you and threaten to sue you. So you call your attorney who calls their attorneys and bam they strike a deal. This is before there is any prior art found.

How does something like this happen? Easy the owner of (big program here) says to his lawyer I have to much to do I pay you to make things like this go away.

Acacia didn't want to get good deals for the first few companies that fell. They only wanted names we as webmasters would recognize so we would scramble and in their eyes settle. They have succeeded. Look at the boards. Wether they got the money out of the people that have settled or not they met their goals.

Now everybody's yelling at these big companies because they did settle. Is this right? I think so but I am but a small fish in a big sea. But the real deal here isn't that they settled. The real problem is now there are lists out there of webmasters with personal info. Which brings me to the topic I really wanted to put my thoughts on.

How many of us have seen email lists for sale?

How many posts are there about buying mailing lists of ibill's customers among others?

Do I really think that Matrix Content, CE Cash, Platinum Bucks, or any other program sold or gave up our information to Acacia? No way. Sure they took a sweetheart deal from Acacia to make the Acacia problem go away for them. And unfortunately now that there are inuendo's about stolen lists flying around I'm sure they in hindsight would rethink signing those deals now. But I don't for one minute think they sold us out. There are other very possible explainations to all of this.

1.) One of their employees could have stolen the list and seen an opportunity to make some side cash. (This is not unheard of)

2.) The lists were stolen by hackers. Again look at how many stolen lists are flying around these message boards. (This is not unheard of)

3.) Internext was only in August during the time that Acacia was building up steam. Could they have rented one of AVN's scanners to get our information under the guise of another company? (This is not unheard of)


Before we go destroying the good name of content providers or sponsors who sold out to Acacia, because of it being an easy way out of another problem thrown at the owner of the company, keep in mind they and only they know the reasons they sold out and signed.

But should we automatically stop using their programs? Possibly.

But what would be my reasons for stopping my business dealings with them?

Well if it was their lists were stolen then how safe is my information with them?

This issue won't be going away none to soon. But I hope I brought up some points to think about. I will say this though I am an affiliate and a customer of all the programs listed, and I have yet to get my Acacia package along with other people I do business with.

So before we go accusing good programs of such dirty deeds please make sure we have all the facts straight before we turn into the old wild west lynch mobs again and just hang people for bad information.

By the way I purposely waited till the mail was delivered to my house today before I posted this.

JFP if you need to borrow my shredder hit me up

http://www.juicylinks.com/LICENSETHIS.gif

I don;t have my package from them yet ... But I'll keep your shredder in mind :thumbsup

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Actually thats probably the most intelligent post regarding this Acacia deal Ive seen on here.

PS, pick up your fucking phone sometimes JFPDUDE!

All kidding aside now the points are very good you brought up.

But we still got to see what happens with this situation name being sold,hacked ordeal

too lazy to read it all.. but still :thumbsup :thumbsup 2 thumbs up

You left out a possibility:

4.) Since there is no tangible evidence possible (such as access to every database to show that a unique address or name spelling exists) some people could simply be engaged in a baseless smear campaign of some programs.

Not saying or even suggesting that such a thing is happening, only pointing out the possibility and the fact that this industry has been known for dirtier tricks in the past.

Again, in JFPDude's words:

"So before we go accusing good programs of such dirty deeds please make sure we have all the facts straight before we turn into the old wild west lynch mobs again and just hang people for bad information."

Spikes lead trial attorney should address this during the hearings so as to show character of the plaintiffs *if* they did such a thing.

Its not unheard of at all for the judge to demand to know the source of such things.

All 3 points involve breaking a criminal statute and would weigh heavily on the case and validity of acacia's truthfulness.

*IF* the above points have any truth whatsoever.

Spike are you around? ;-)

You bring up some valid points. Nice insight into a difficult topic. :thumbsup

Absolutely all my claims should be investigated by defense attorneys against Acacia because all of the above is illegal.


Mikeee I just tried your phone ... ring ring ring ring ring ... also left a message in ICQ bro.

Fiveeyes thats another possibility.

Could it be, that they get some good deals, if they gave the info about the webmasters?

If i had one of those companies there have settle, i would scan my papers, so i could show everyone that, that is not part of it.

Until then i belive, they got some great deals, so Acacia got the lists and webmaster info and then Acacia allso got some names to add to there settlelist.

Just my :2 cents:

Nice shredder.
WG

"1.) One of their employees could have stolen the list and seen
an opportunity to make some side cash. (This is not unheard of)"


Possible, but I dont think they are stupid enough to buy an obviously stolen database.


"2.) The lists were stolen by hackers. Again look at how many stolen lists are flying around these message boards. (This is not unheard of)"


Same answer.


"3.) Internext was only in August during the time that Acacia was building up steam. Could they have rented one of AVN's scanners to get our information under the guise of another company? (This is not unheard of)"


That they bought/aquired that data from another company is a more likely scenrio.



Personally I wouldnt trust companies like Babenet, etc. They arent exactly upstanding people.

excellent post

things need to be thought through

If they are planning to go ahead to the court and sue us for money they will have to announce how did they got our home mail address and personal information.

I personally agree with your answers however we are not talking about a very bright company here. To date they have already falsely accused 3 of my associates with infringing on their patents and these people have no websites.

Just because they have lawyers working for them it doesn't sound like they hired the brightest lawyers in the pool.

Aha! it was corvett, in the mirc room, with the candlestick.
:winkwink:

I don't think this is the case, there are too many different people who are Matrix customers who have said that they got the notices to their Matrix addresses.

For it to be a smear, it would have to be one or two people, or a group of people with a problem with Matrix. A number of those who have come forward are unrelated to each other, and some of them are fans of Matrix.

Or consider the Acacia letter campaign to be very well thought out. Which I am very more inclined to believe as I never under estimate the machiavellian tactics of lawyers.

Yes they obviously outsourced this bulk mailing, and yes it went to alot of people that do not even deal with video. Yes they spent .517 cents per mailing and at face value it looks as stupid as hell and that they are highly unorganized.

It may get them some fear based license agreements which will look good on paper and could boost the shares. That in itself it beside the point looking at the big picture.

It is painfully obvious that as an industry we do not get along with each other on many levels which makes us easy prey.
It is also obvious nobody will heed our cries because they see us as scum.
We do generate money, which does give them a reason.

Looking at the time line and being one of those that was contacted back in 2002 about this. I personally think I see a bigger plan in action.

They started with going after content providers, leased and those that sell. I think to get targets, since providers keep records of webmasters, and we all seen the initial licenses.

Next they went after some programs, mostly sweetheart deals for name appeal and to prevent them from fighting.

We then see a counter strike with the IMPAI forming against their desires. They do not like this and try to block it.

Next we see a mass mailing to nearly everyone and their brother. Odds are they did get some databases, either via license or some other legal way. To me this was not done to scare up licenses but to make us not trust each other and turn our attentions away from working together.

just :2 cents:

Hopefully it will do the opposite and IMPAI will see a big increase in donations.

If anyone gets a letter and doesn't send at least a few hundred dollars, and probably a lot more than that, to IMPAI, they are stupid.

Disclosure is a wonderful thing in the legal system :thumbsup

1.) a. Who has access to the database? Surely not everyone at the company. I think it would only be upper-management?

b. Would Acaca purchase an obviously stolen database from an employee that contacted Acaca on the sidelines? I don't think so.

2.) a. I think a list was stolen by hackers, there would have been more people complaining about "so-and-so" spam, or "so-and-so" sold my info to spammers before now. Unless the they hacked the list solely for sale to Acaca, but I don't think so.

b. Would Acaca purchase an obviously stolen database from a hacker that contacted Acaca on the sidelines? I don't think so.

3.) Didn't Acaca have their own booth? I don't think they would have disguised themselves as another company. But if so, it should be easy to go through a list of the people that rented scanners and find out who it was.

4.) In my opinion, there are too many people with the same story.

5.) I believe there is a blacklist in order. At least the smaller webmasters will blacklist the companies that signed, because some of us believe in being united. I think we will see a lot of those companies being rejected on a lot of TGPs.

Dog eat dog.

Blacklist is great ... but put yourself in their shoes.


Settle and get a sweetheart deal

or

Spend thousands upon thousands in legal fee's and manhours fighting it.


Sometimes small business owners don't always like to think like the big guys. But in a nutshell thats what it came down to in my opinion.

Now we should support the guys that are fighting this more then the guys that have settled because they are the pioneers thats clearing the way for us little guys.

But don't discount the guys that settled without knowing all the facts.

The sponsors/companies I saw listed as settling can all afford to fight it if they really chose to...but sadly they took the selfish approach and chose to settle, knowing damn well that will hurt the adult industry as a whole...

...one thing they may have not counted on though is the building backlash against those sponsors that settled without truly fighting Acacia...

At the current rate, there are going to be a lot less sponsors this time next year due in large part to them selling the adult community out...reputation is everything in this business!

Ron

DOH!! should have know ... :1orglaugh

and in a weird perverted way, also thins out some of your competition in the adult field too doesn't it?

Part of your post seems to forget one item.
The info our first packet had. (yes we have gotten 2 so far).

The first packet came to a particular name and address that was only used at ONE place.

The seocnd came to a commonly available name. address.

Sorry, but the "maybe it was stolen or hacked" just doesnt cut it with us.

Also I am not trying to slam anyone, as I have not once revealed on any board who it was that gave those scumbags our info.

one thing they may have not counted on though is the building backlash against those sponsors that settled without truly fighting Acacia

I'll still use sponsers till they stop bringing in money!

As far as I'm concerned, unless you are hosting the movies on your box and not pointing to hosted galleries or submitted galleries, and are just running a TGP where it links to movies galleries, you didn't infringe on the Patent. I'm not infringing I know that, I'm using no TECHNOLOGY - besides fucking hyperlinking - that incompases transfering video from MY domain to the end-users computer!

So fuck'em! They ain't getting none of my money!

jDoG

Let's consider a few things.

If you had a patent that you knew was solid would you be acting like Acacia or would you be pinning a few medium to larger companies to a normal license or taking them to court and beating them there?

Then with that under your belt you tell everyone sign up or suffer the same fate.

If you have a patent that you know any judge with two working brain cells is going to kick out, do you try scare tactics to extort as much as you can before some renegade says no and does take you to court? Where you lose, but still have all the money from the cowards.

Consider the actions of Berman and make your own judgment.

Now, for those that signed the license.

If you have not noticed we are in the Porn Industry, not computers, Internet, traffic or what ever else you might like to think this is.

We always have been and always will be on the edge and blamed for anything and everything plus any politicians whipping boy. We are also considered easy targets because of the reluctance of many to stand up and shout for what are our rights. One of our strengths is in sticking together and presenting a united front.

Some are small companies that could not afford to fight and may be forgiven in the future.

The rest should not get off so lightly and should be taught that if you split from the pack when it suits you do not expect to come back in when it suits you. Why is simple, if we do not show the medium to big guys they should be standing next to IMPA when it matters, why should they give a fuck about us next time and the time after that?

If they are only interested in their self interest then fine, let us do the same and show them that our self interest is in sticking together and showing those that want to stand apart, because it will save them a few bucks today, that it will cost them thousands in the future.

Did someone who signed up to Acacia give them a list of affiliates or clients? Please give me a break, that is not in dispute the only decision to make is which one of them did it?

One of the early people to sign up, told me he did it to protect his clients and it written into the license. Well unless he told Acacia who his clients were, how did he protect them? They then have the list of clients they cannot pursue for buying from him, but can pursue for buying from me or anyone else.

We stick together and support those leading the fight or we might as well look for new jobs.

Look at next year and not tomorrow. I know you have to make a living but one of the things I have found in business is integrety is priceless.

Good point!


Instead of speculating you guys go into action. Here are some things you can do to get answers. If you ever have to goto court you'll have a record of what certain entities have said to you.

A) Send an email to your billing companies and Sponsors with these questions:

1) In the terms of our contract are you allowed to give my personal information to a third party?
2) Have you given my personal information to a third party in any way, ever?
3) If you have given my personal information to a third party why? Who did you give it to?
4) If you have given my personal information to a third party I request contact information for the third party.

* Make sure they answer these questions point by point. If you ever goto court you'll have written documentation of what these entities told you regarding your personal information with them.

B) Research what happened with Holio. There case was DISMISSED.. which means that it's possible Acacia dropped it. Why would Acacia do that? Does Holio have a case pending against Acacia in a California court? What are the claims being made in that case? Is Acacia being sued by Holio for breaking a deal? I don't believe Holio has signed a license with Acacia so what deal has been broken, if any?

C) After you start getting results from the different processors and sponsors... post the results on here.

:thumbsup

1. Acacia is made up of lawyers. They would not purchase stolen lists, it is too risky and it *would* come out in court.

2. There are far too many people who have received packets to a specific name or address that was only given to ONE company. Yes, people *do* do this, just as they give an email address such as [email protected] or nickname-maxcash to track who their email is being sold/given to.

JFP your post is based less on solid fact and more on wishful thinking that your favorite sponsors/content providers couldn't be such low-life sleazeballs.

There is a LOT of dirt in this industry where companies have done some very nasty things to their webmasters or to each other in the name of the almighty dollar.
STOP thinking that these companies are like you and have morals or ethics. They do NOT. They are only interested in their bottom line, and rightly so - any and every business should only be interested in its bottom line. You just hope that the CEO has an actual soul.

What if they didn't purchase them? What if they obtained them with assurance of a confidentiality agreement? Does Holio have a case pending against Acacia for breaking an agreement of some sort? I'm not saying Holio gave our info out, but what kind of case do they have pending in California court with Acacia?

Instead of speculating find answers. Read my post above and take action.