Those who have received Acacia packets can relax....
 

[edit] ok so I messed up on my thread title - supposed to be "Those who have received Acacia PACKETS can relax"

The letter is only a letter.

A lot of you have been sent packets with invalid contact info.

You have not been served.

Do not do anything rash.

Check on the boards and keep up to date, but more importantly.... focus on making money.

Things are happening behind the scenes that many don't know about and I assure you that it is not time to panic.

The letters you have received are not a summons to a court preeding. A packet from Acacia does not mean you have been found guilty by our judicial system of patent infringement.

I know it sounds basic but don't feed into the fear of pending litigation when you don't know if that's going to be a reality.

I will be coming out with more specific information later. There is a reason you are receiving letters and not being served.

Because it's cheaper maybe?

For the people that have nothing to do with video (ie host, designers, etc.): Wouldn't it be best not to call up Acaca and let them know ahead of time, but to wait and let them waste their money and find out in court?

I've been through the legal process and know how stressful and draining it can be and don't wish it on anyone... that being said.. GFED is right. Like a fish goig for bait.. nibble.. but don't bite the hook.

It is within everyones right to wait to be served by Acacia. I am not advising anything here.. and everyone has their own choice to make based on what they feel is best for them. I would say it's calling their bluff and I'd want a judge to decide if I should pay someone money for the next few years! These packets are not legally binding documents.

A judge has not ruled on the cases pending.

let them waste their money - they are PANICING - as they can only last less than 2 years with their reserves

Only worry when you get something like this



http://www.juicylinks.com/law1.jpg

http://www.juicylinks.com/law2.jpg

lol juicy cheers :glugglug

I would love to see these guys go down for extortion..

No, but it is a blatant accusation. The first paragraph: "You provide access... blah blah blah"

not: "IF you are....." or "You have in the past...." or "We think you might be...." or "If this pertains...."

it was exactly: "You provide access to digital audio/video content via your website(s) without a license from Acacia, and are therefore liable to Acacia for patent infringement."

My fucking white haole ass.

I was accused of something that does NOT hold up, for the purpose of extorting money from me. And I'm not happy about it.

Acacia better wise up. Quick.

I'm with you there. All the time and effort we've all spent regarding this issue is fenominal. The word Acacia makes me sick. I'm tired of hearing about it BUT the issues do have to be faced.

From what you've said .. they are accussing you. And you have a right to be heard by a judge.

This isn't a third world country. It's the United States of America and EVERYONE is entitled to their day in court.... EVERYONE There are a lot of your out there who have received these packets and EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU is entitled to your day in court.

How much money does Acacia have? How many lawsuites would have to be filed? How many people will have to be served? How much will it cost to have each and every one of your served? How many days and times in court will the Acacia attorneys have to spend to address EACH AND EVERY ONE of these letters?

I hate to say it, but on a minimal scale, the patent will expire before every case is heard in a court of law. You have a right to a fair trial.

I wonder if they are extorting people. I'm not an attorney so I don't know, but I do know that you have a right to a fair trial.

What were those papers for again? Pandering or prostitution? I forget. Or was it for that time you were drunk and disorderly outside the Quicki mart on Martin Luther Kind blvd? :1orglaugh

you got that right Brisk!

lots cheaper. There are real costs to filing just one lawsuit, let alone tens of thousands. Just the court costs, jury selection, discovery, outside counsel, travel expenses, meals, rental cars, airfare. Money that acacia has to front!

IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, because everyone in the know knows that their patent will be invalidated.

acacia has banked their whole approach on the idea that adult webmasters are a bunch of kids fearful of the "legal" system, intimidated by lawyers.

Here's what is really going to happen.

IF acacia really prevails on the patent issue they will be in the big sugar.

But the big sugar will not come from webmasters or universities.

The big sugar will come from big media, microsoft, sony, manufacturers of DV equipment, etc.

Why?, because unless a deal will be made with the patent holder it will basically stop the sale of consumer DV equipment, it will stop most transmission of digital media over the internet, it will stifle the development of the international information superhighway---IF the patent holds.

Think now.

Who are the richest people in the world. And what will THEY do if their business enterprise is threatened by a small company of bottom-feeder lawyers in California?

if acacia prevails they will be absorbed (bought out) by big media---and that is what acacia is hoping for in their fantasy.

And, it is a fantasy.

Bill Gates could write a check for acacia during his morning coffeebreak, and then order another croissant.

Or he could instruct his lawyers to keep them tied up for the next 20 years in litigation, and then change the subject to the world series.

This is a man that beat the US government. This is a man that's thinking about curing aids in Africa. He's not losing a wink of sleep over acacia...and there's a reason he's not.

I like you.

Ok.. in all fairness Bill did just lose that case for about 1/2 a billion dollars regarding patent claims.

That said.. you have come up with some very accurate information. :winkwink:

Squirtit-

that may be true. But there is a legal technique called "papering" the opposition. It is my understanding that the relevant acacia patent expires in approx 8 years.

Just Microsoft (not including any other big player) could toy with acacia like a cat playing with a dying mouse for that long.

And, for Bill Gates, half a billion is a bar tab.

Yes, and papering is a whole nother issue ... not even considering the hundreds, or thousands , or cases they will have to open, serve and appear for. It can be done. DirecTV is suing THOUSANDS right now in Florida... last month alone they filed 300 suits. Law.com article regarding this

Acacia is not DirectTV.. and DirectTV has a clear cut case... Acacia doesn't. Nine-year-old DirecTV is a division of Hughes Electronics Corp., which in turn is a unit of General Motors. Hughes had 2002 revenues of $8.9 billion

DTV has boatloads more cash too, always helps when you are sueing

Squirtit,

again you are correct, a plaintiff can initiate hundreds, even thousands of lawsuits, but you are comparing apples to oranges.

Hughes DOES have a case. And their lawsuit is a SIMPLE one. Is the defendent paying for the satellite TV he's receiving, or is he not. Easy to verify, easy slam-dunk for Hughes, a hugely profitable enterprise, with a VERY easy case to litigate. Only a fool would go into court against Hughes---why, because if you are found guilty of stealing from Huges it is no longer a CIVIL matter---it will be a criminal matter (misdemeanor) and you will now have a criminal record. People will settle, people will get default judgments if they don't settle, and if they continue theft of service the sheriff will come out to the guy's trailer and charge the fast freddie with the crime.

Now consider the acacia lawsuit. A difficult lawsuit to explain to a jury. A jury that probably has seen AOL and CNN stream video over their own home computer and wonder why this webmaster can't do it, but CNN and AOL can.

Then consider the fact that acacia, no matter how much they economize the scale of it, probably cannot appear in court with you for less than maybe $5000 out-of-pocket (probably more).

Anyone can dispute the numbers, but in my estimation $5000 is bare minimum that acacia must allocate to begin litigation against a single webmaster outside of California.

So take that times maybe 10,000 in the USA alone.

Make them take you to court and prove their case to a jury of YOUR peers.

Ain't gonna happen.

I'm happy with the numbers just multiplying it by 1,000 he he he
That would cover all of the company assets (at least as of the Q3 financial report) :glugglug

Good points. In addition, this is a company of 22 idiot lawyers with little money to spend. Let's bleed them dry. If you are more than a few hours from So California, ignore them. They don't have the staff or the money to deal with a jury trial in a million different jurisdictions. They are at our mercy to cave in to a threatening letter. Considering that they didn't have the resources to even verify if a site had video, it's obvious they are desperate.

Give the lack of research in to which sites have video, I'm betting they spent as much (little) effort doing prior art searches.

:thumbsup

Scorescash was in New York and they got owned by Acacia.

"They don't have the staff or the money to deal with a jury trial in a million different jurisdictions. They are at our mercy to cave in to a threatening letter. Considering that they didn't have the resources to even verify if a site had video, it's obvious they are desperate."


RiverRat has analyzed it very succintly.

Don't ignore the lawsuit. Make them prove their case to a jury in your locality. Do NOT take a default judgment. See them in the courtroom, belly-to-belly.

You are MUCH stronger than you realize. Remember, everyone in the jury will have seen video streamed to their computer on the internet. They WILL wonder why you are being called an infringer by this outsider company who doesn't have the balls to take on microsoft. All juries will have college kids in the jury pool---who have computers, and have seen video streamed online.

Acacia does not stand a chance in front of a jury. Not a chance!

not exactly;

it is my understanding that Scorecash SETTLED with acacia RATHER than litigate.

big difference.

Juicy stole my logitech cordless :)

Oh, nice, clean desk man. I would be embarrassed to show the piles of install docs and cd cases and shit on mine :)
(Where's my phone?)

You see.. one could speculate that they didn't feel they needed the time to verify if the people had video because they were advised that affiliate info they were given was correct and linked the affiliate with video. If that is what happened.. they were misadvised.

Whomever is advising Acacia is doing a poor job and costing them more time and money than necessary.

That was after Acacia received an injuction to close down scorescash websites

I think he's saying ignore them and show up for court when you're served. I could be wrong.

It seems to me like there is a simple answer to those papers. If you didn't sign for them........what papers?

If they just mailed them to you they have no record that you received them.
Make them serve you before you worry about it.

I think ACACIA is just a new way for Bush to make money for his re-election campaign.:1orglaugh

...and he still has over $50 billion cash left in the Microsoft checking account.

He was saying ignore them if you're not in California because he thinks Acacia is unlikely to pursue you if you're not in California. My point was that Scorescash was based in New York and Acacia received a court injuction against them and had their websites shut down. So being outside of California isn't necessarily going to save you from Acacia.

Very good insight!

Don't forget that the onus is on Acacia to prove how long you had video so as to apply damages.

I'm sure jurors will exist that watch CNN clips online etc. and will think it odd that a company who hasn't created and developed the technology wants the internet to pay them for the process patent they possess. Remember the results from Acacias V-Chip patent... this will come to play in a courtroom.

exactly right Squirtit.

Don't ignore a LAWSUIT, no matter how frivolous.

IF you are sued, respond, either with an attorney, or in pro per.

A default judgment is usually automatic if you do not put in an appearance. And if acacia gets a default judgment against you because you did not even respond to their lawsuit, they WILL notify your domain name service and hosting company to shut you down.

And if that happens (and you want to stay in business) you WILL have to settle with them.

But they can ONLY do that IF they have a judgment against you.

so, respond to a lawsuit, any lawsuit, and make them prove their case.

it is my understanding, that at this very moment, acacia HAS NOT PROVEN THEIR CASE IN ANY COURT OF LAW, and in at least one case THE JUDGE THROUGH THEIR CASE OUT!

anyone can correct me if I'm wrong.

make them prove their case.

OH you're right. To many hours in front of the screen. I gotta take a break! Thanks for pointing that out :thumbsup

Being outside California means nothing. It isn't unheard of for companies to hire lawfirms in different states to handle cases for those states... HOWEVER this is VERY expensive and would cost more then Acacia can currently afford ( according to their Q3 earnings report ) A national venture would be in the millions and millions of dollars... and if a lot of people demanded their day in court... the price gets higher, and higher and higher!

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh true

Scorescash was in New York, I believe their servers were in Chicago, but Acacia received an injuction to have their websites shut down from the district court for the central district of California.

Actually, I don't think their servers were in Chicago, they might have been in California?

Acacia shut down their site because they didn't respond to the summons and had a DEFAULT judgement entered.

Cummon guys.. think about this... isn't it strange that others are already in court and you are just getting letters in the mail? You have to trust me.. there are reasons you are just getting letters and not being served.

Good point. I wasn't suggesting you ignore a lawsuit. I was suggesting that if forced to file against everyone, they will go broke. Dont ignore a lawsuit. Ignore a silly letter that they have bulk mailed to a million people. It's just a fishing expedition. Bleed them. Make them do their work if they wanna get paid.

My point is that being based outside of California won't stop Acacia from taking court action against you.

Yes.. you're right. Beind outside California will not stop Acacia from taking court action against you if they so wished.

Your on the right track Squirtit;

Remember, all of these "big wins" for acacia are nothing but defendents FAILING TO SHOW UP. No judge heard any evidence in these cases.

And in the ONE case so far that a judge actually heard from a defendent party (Holio) guess what happened.

acacia's case was thrown out.

Also, I'll say this. I believe acacia will find at least two of the present defendents coming up to be VERY tough courtroom oponents.

Jeff Miller of Sunup is very smart and very aggressive. He has a history of fighting for what he believes in, and he has won lawsuits against those that have toyed with him. I expect Miller not to just win, but to strike back. Spike Goldberg will also be a formidable opponent. These guys are not laydowns, they are very sharp business people that can present themselves VERY well on the stand if called to witness. I respect them for fighting this fight while other big companies lay back and watch.

so, what you're saying is, is that it's ok to take a shit on the papers they sent?

Yes but the whole Holio thing is questionable. Why exactly was Holios case left be? Why didn't Acacia appeal? If Holio won.. then why are there defendants still awaiting a court date? Holios win could actually have hurt us. Did Holio ever bite back at Acacia? Are there still any pending cases with them in the Los Angeles court system? Following the "win" for Holio.. what other things proceeded? Answers to these questions might bring light on the Holio "win".

I have every faith in the guys that are there fighting now and their ability to win this case. Support for them is tremendous now and I wouldn't be surprised if people outside the industry were behind them. The Acacia thing seems to have created a snowball effect. Since the colleges have been put on notice by Acacia, I would expect that mainstream corporations have seen this monster coming and are being proactive in dealing with he situation before it his them head on.

Nismo, I like the symbolism of your query. From a legal standpoint you have not been sued if you receive information, or a sales letter. Even a cease and desist would have been sent by certified mail.

What I'm saying is this. Gather information. Make your own decision. I have made mine.

I believe that acacia holds a patent that was improperly issued. I believe that patent will be invalidated, probably within 12 months from right now, almost certainly within 18 months from right now.

I believe that IF the acacia patent is not invalidated acacia will be offered megabucks by a big entity that needs to maintain the status quo, and either bought out and absorbed, or tied up in litigation until 2011.

Homegrown. http://www.gofuckyourself.com/images.../xyxthumbs.gif

When the patent gets thrown out, the whole adult industry should have a party for Homegrown and all of the other companies putting up the money and putting in the time to fight this.

Imagine if everyone just caved in like some of the other big companies.

Don't forget Spike when Christmas comes around. :)

Yes. These are not huge companies, but they are successful companies. And all of them could "afford" to pay the 2% shakedown.

Other companies that settled did so because it was financially expediant.

But the companies that did not settle did so because they know this patent is just plain BOGUS---even though they could well afford to settle, they did not.

And that says plenty about their integrity. And that will be remembered a LONG time.

The Homegrown group will probably be the ones to bust the acacia patent, and they will do it, because it is the right thing to do, for the betterment of all of us that use information.

There is a scene in the movie "To Kill a Mockingbird" when Atticus Finch walks into the courtroom and the people in the gallery quietly stand in his honor. It is a very poignant scene.

If you saw the movie you will remember.

In my mind the Homegrown group is Atticus Finch.

Umm.. why not use the David and Goliath example instead? I think they'd rather be called David then Atticus.. just a gues LOL :1orglaugh

I am entirely honored by your compliment and that is a great book.

I must humbly defer to the brothers and sisters we share in our fight, top bucks, Video Secrets, Gamelink, Lightspeed, AEBN, Audio Communications, ARS, and others that choose to remain nameless and help without regard for publicity or accolades. All these people are incredible and I look forward to the day I can reveal them for their generousity.

I hope one day all the heros and martyrs of this ordeal are fully remembered and recognized for the integrity they bring to our industry.

Every one of these companies will acknowledge that they came into this as a self interested "business decision". Today, not one of us would deny that this matter has touched our entire industry. It has the potential of reaching into everyone's pocket book and taking out cash... simply based on dubious claims and substantial threats.

We know now that we are the first and only line of defense that the industry has against this type of frivolous and malicious abuse of process. We all have no intention of giving in and we do intend on seeing this thing through to the end. We all realize this is a business decision for the health of all our businesses. That is good for business.

I thank you all for your incredible compliments and tremendous support.

I am just wondering why everyone is getting all fired up over what is nothing more than a sales packet. You guys get stuff like acacia sent out every day by other marketers. This is no different. What pisses me off is the fact that a certain large company gave our info up. I know the info my packet was sent to only ONE company had.