Ac*cia Showdown...
 

So, it's down to the wire for me with these assholes. I've received two copies of their glossy horseshit package, both at my po box, over the last eight months. Last week their letter arrived, complete with the CNET reprints -- reeking of the sleaziest scare tactics, demanding I comply by Nov 30.

So, here's my hit on what's goin' on, after I made calls to several players (some of them "large") in this biz, that are also work-related friends. Each of them, asking that I not repeat what they said, confided that they'd settled with Ac*cia. Each of their stories followed the same trajectory. We got the packages, we turned them over to our attorney and told them to "get us out of this hassle," or whatever, and then each attorney came back to them and recommended settling, rather than paying the huge legal fees that would accrue. Was it worth getting their lawyers involved? Yes, in that the lawyers were able to "alter" the demands that Ac*cia was making -- a bargaining situation, obviously. Apparently Acasholes were willing to take almost anything offered, just to have these different folks signed up for the bogus lisc. Proving themselves to be the fucked up whores that they are.

Everyone I spoke to also shared the same sentiment of feeling raped, but in the end looked at their decision to sign as the most financially sane -- something that would just let them get the fuckers out of their hair.

Of course I hung up with each of these folks and felt ill. That, coupled with the sinking feeling that this is going on in a lot of cases, and we're just not hearing about it 'cause no one wants to look like the loser asshole that caved to the sleezeballs.

Different folks told me different things regarding my "FINAL NOTICE" letter, suggesting I just close down the PO BOX and let the assholes work harder at finding me, others suggested my attorney get involved. But fuck, I probably know more about this than my attorney -- so why pay him 200 an hour to tell me stuff I already know?

Like all of you that have stayed in the background with this thing, I've hoped by the time it got to critical mass it would have all blown over, the courts proving the patents bogus and everyone happy and back to making porn -- yeah right.

I love the idea of FightThePatent and what everyone there is trying to accomplish, but right now I need to make decisions fast. What am I supposed to to? Join FightThePatent and then have them show up in court for me so my sites aren't all shut down? Is that how the thing works? What is the D-Day date for Acasholia? Meaning, is there a court date scheduled that will prove that the patent claim is bogus, via all the prior art that's been discovered? Or is that just some vauge "day in the future" thing that we're alll waiting for? Any specific facts would be appreciated. Far-L -- what's the lastest? Help. Any clarification or discussion related to this post would be appreciated -- I'm clueless as to what my options are, other than settling for the lisc. and getting on with my life. It's looking like the clear and easy approach -- and yeah, I'll catch shit for saying that, but I'm betting a lot of you are thinking the same thing but just not voicing it.

And yes I'm a long-time participant on this board, using a bogus handle and computer at my library to post. So sue me.

:BangBang: :BangBang: :BangBang: :BangBang:

mmmm...I love the smell of desperation in the morning.

Just do what's best for your business and be careful. Don't sign a contract that is good regardless of if the patent is overturned.

just take video down for a few months. If they actually file a lawsuit, dont let them get a default judgment. Show up and say that you do not use video.

This thing will blow over within 6 months. I can feel for your situation. I'd rather die than give those theifs one red penny.



One thing that would be interesting is which hosting companies are willing to say that if Acacia tries to force them to shutdown a customer , will tell them to go fuck themself. Stand up and be heard.

Last month I was thinking the same thing of rather to just pay the license and get them out of my hair or ride it out. I've chosen to ride it out and give what I would to Acacia instead to FTP. I made this decision after talking to Brandon from FTP. I got my 2nd package last week that you got.

Just do what you feel is best for your business. If that means getting the license, then you gotta do what you gotta do. Some people might look down on you for that, but most of these people don't have to make this kinda decision yet cause they have recieved a package from Acacia yet. Who knows, if and/or when I get a notice to show up in court, I might change my mind and sign for the license (I doubt I'll sign though). This is what I feel is best for me and my business. Personally, if I were you, I'd wait until you get a notice to show up in court, but do what is best for you and your company.

Acacia can go fuck themselves before they'd ever get me to give in i'd spend every last penny i had to make sure i took them out cause the one who does will be seen as a godsent for those who can't fight them just my :2 cents:

SGP, I have had many webmasters talk to me about the very same predicament you are in, with receiving the 2nd letter. i have some that have also told me that they intend to settle, because they just can't afford to fight, and hate having to license, but it was the best business decision they could make.

The 2nd notice says the amnesty date is Nov. 30th... they have put you on notice, so that means you won't hear back from them til Dec 1st...which if you do, would mean a court letter taking you to court... at which point, you would have to make the decision to defend yourself or settle.

If you wish to fight, then you need to have the $$$ to do so.

I talked to Far-L at IMPA about this issue, since many webmasters are asking me what my opinion to the situation is.

Far-L said that webmasters can contribute to the Defense Fund, a few thousand a month... just like like the 7 other defendants.

The first 7 will get their court date first, then any new ones after that. The money you put in could be allocated to your defense by the attorney firm they have hired.

This means that can contribute to the fund that supports those ahead of you in going to court, with the idea that they will be the ones knocking out the patent, thus you many never have to deal with it.

This strategy involves having sufficent money in the Defense Fund (which is different then people donating to the IMPA) to fund the attorneys efforts to do all the legal manuevers that takes the first defendant to court.

I believe that the first batter up will be the one that hits the home run, thus ending this World Series absurdity quickly.

I am not an attorney, just a techie... so my opinion goes as far as those that believe in the same.....

You can very realistically take a wait-and-see posture, and see what happens after Nov. 30th. If you do get a court order.. having your letters sent to your PO box is a good indication that they haven't taken the time to track you down and could pose a roadblock for them, so they'll try to pick on easier targets.

If Fight the Patent Foundation was operational, I would have defense attorneys talking to you right now in helping you to prepare your case and answering their attempts at "convincing" you to license. But FTPF is not up, and i do feel frustrated in my efforts to be proactive in these patent abuse issues..... best i can do is to provide information, generate awareness, help find prior art, and raise donations for FTPF.

The first defendant is still waiting for their day in court...the date keeps getting pushed back due to the way the court system handles case scheduling, given the fact that one company is sueing many people, and have shown an intent to sue more.

Feel free to email me at brandon -at- FightThePatent.com and i can pass on contact info for Far-L.


Fight the Patent!

Taking down the video doesn't protect from past infringements...

Since they already have documented that he has infringed on the patent, all that taking the video down is stop the clock, but of course Acacia would have to know that...but it doesn't matter... they could still take him to court for past infringements...which means opening up your books and them charging you license fees all the way back to day 1 of your business.

Remember their tactic with V-Chip... got $25M in licenses before the patent was found invalid..... now, try to "convince" webmasters to pay them a licensing fee before the patent is found invalid...hmmmmm........

Already inquiring to an Securities Attorney about this....sounds fishy doesn't it?




Fight the Patent!

So that you can display three things:

1. That you don't believe the patents to be valid and/or that they apply to your business model as they are filed with the USPTO.

2. Your willingness to spend $200/hour to convey this message.

3. Your attorneys letterhead.

This pains me to repeat, but I'll say it here..... I have said to some webmasters, if you feel that you are totally backed into a corner and can't afford to fight, then licensing the patent before Nov. 30th date will keep you from spending 20X more than that on attornies fees and protects you from the retroactive fees should they target you.

YOU WON'T GET YOUR MONEY BACK WHEN THE PATENT IS FOUND TO BE INVALID! This is what Acacia took advantage in the V-Chip cases and what they are applying now in this audio/video patent claim.

I have had many tell me that they decided to license the patent, and I do not look down on their decision (and i have kept their info confidential), i understand they couldn't afford to fight..... of course, those with deeper pockets that settled don't get my sympathy or empathy.

If you do the wait-and-see stance, then understand that they can go after you for past infringement... BUT, at the point where they do find you, and give you a court invitation, join the Defense Fund, and stand in line to take a swing in the game... I believe you won't get your chance at bat, because the first batter up will be the slugger that cracks the home run.

If you have some money in your pocket, contribute to the Defense Fund. This is where your money goes directly to supporting batters waiting on deck.

Pledges to FTPF would help for the next patent abuse cases to come around....given the current pledge counter total below, doesn't look like FTPF will be able to be involved directly with this Patent Abuse World Series.

I am looking to spread the cost of starting FTPF by attracting 2,500 webmasters to pledge a one-time payment of $100. The total below has several pledges that are greater than $100, and i totally appreciate the pledge by those individuals. I am looking for the masses to come forward to unite.. $100 is not alot of money, considering the options of paying additional license fees and attorney fees for issues like i posted titled: Congress Supports Tax on Adult Websites (http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=187728)

If anyone wishes to chat offline, email me at brandon -at- FightThePatent.com and I'll send you my phone number.


Fight the Patent!

Yeah, it's easy to be flip and smug when you don't operate a substantial business that involves sane financial management, a staff and how cash flow effects THEIR future, etc.

Your "site" notes:

"I do not classify myself as a "designer"."

Jesus, that's the understatement of the century. Go back to the Barbizon School of Graphics.

Which brings up an interesting question.

Are those that have settled, settled because they honestly believed Acacia had a good case against them, OR because the financial cost of going to court to even WIN the case would be more costly than buying the license?

I'm of the mind that these are true "ambulance chasers" that are betting you'll settle out of court because you don't want to go through all the hassle. That's why I'm looking forward to someone that finally goes to court and WINS!

On a side note, do those that have been pretty involved with Acacia get the impression that they are basically targeting the "big boys" and leaving the smaller (Under say 100,000k a year) sites alone?

since we are not privy to the conversations of the patent attorney and the big players that settled, i can only assume that they spent $3-5K in doing a prior art search, and found prior art.. afterall, we are all amateurs and we're finding prior art...

Then the CFO might have stepped in to say, it will cost us alot less if we just settle, than take on litigation...which in the end, we believe we will win based on what the patent attorney says, but we don't get our money back when we win the case, so let's just pay the sweetheart deal and go on making money.

The CEO will understand that they will take flak from everyone, but will think that this is business, that other people are just competitors, and that there is no community, just everyone acting in their best interests....



I think their strategy is opposite than you suggested... make sweetheart deals with the larger players, and use that as a way to target the under $100,000/year webmasters... they make good money, but not enough to fight....so hit them up for $1,500/year for a lciense, and they'll just settle up...

Look at the numbesr... 100,000 websites paying $1,500/year = $150M per year!

More money by targeting the mass number of smaller players than getting the big players.. classic "divide and conquer" tactic, that i would say is working...but they didn't count on 7 companies who are defending themselves, they didn't count on people like me stepping forward to bring awareness and help find prior art, they didn't count on the Many, Many webmasters who have joined into donate to IMPA, to Pledge to FTPF, and to help find prior art.



Fight the Patent!

Check out the thread i started tittle:

Congress Supports Tax on Adult Websites

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=187728





Fight the Patent!

Oh Christ, obviously the later. Only a moron would consider these patents legit -- this is what is so fucking insulting about the whole thing. If you actually study their patent paperwork/claim, it reads like something generated by a staff writer on Star Trek.


On a side note, do those that have been pretty involved with Acacia get the impression that they are basically targeting the "big boys" and leaving the smaller (Under say 100,000k a year) sites alone? [/QUOTE]

They're targeting anyone and everyone that has a porn site, regardless of "size", even if the site streams content or not! I've got friends that don't even show video on their site being hammered with their "press kits." It's all a big "pin the tail on the donkey" approach, line 'em up and then start randomly poking.

I probably should have used $50k for the "smaller" sites.
I would think a lot of them would just close up shop (at least the site name) and lay low for awhile and/or start up under a different name than pay.

Would be interesting to find out how many are actually doing that.

And when is CNN etc going to step into the fray since they rely heavily on streaming media?

Then how long until an injunction can be issued to halt their actions until a decision is made on the patent?

Given my conspiracy theory that Acacia knows their patent is not valid (*cough* v-chip *cough*)... why take on large companies that have the financial ability to hold them up in court for years?

Go after the "low hanging fruit" as Berman said.

Sony stepped up to the V-Chip challenge and got a ruling in their favor that the patents did not apply to them..


Fight the Patent!

A footnote:

Another enlivening bit of news, that I forgot to mention in my initial post, involved the "sideline" requirements that were involved when some of these "big players" signed their "sweetheart" (puke) deal. Acashia required that they list and report to them (Ac*cia) the names and addresses of folks who were using/leasing their streaming content/consoles. One of my friends told me she refused to do this and had her attorney write that "out" of the contract -- while others complied, no problem.

So, if some folks are wondering "how" they EVENTUALLY "found" you, well -- NOW YOU KNOW. Ah, loyalty.

yup, there are a number of my friends and business associates that have settle and not made it a public thing. or they are planning to settle just kind of riding it out and wasting time.

and as much as i disagree with thier decisions, I am not in thier shoes so i cant make, and realisitically settling is like an insurance policy, its all gamble either they win or lose. but its good to have insurance. worst that happens to the companies that settled is they spent $1500 on a license to a patent that was later found to be false.

i myself would tell them to kiss my ass and do anything within my powers to fight. america was built on an idea. "live free or die
" you know, liberty or death and all that shit, and id rather have my business closed down with me still at the helm fighting every fucking inch, then to bend over for some bully.

you give them your lunch money today, and your gonna have to tomorrow as well. then some other bully is gonna show up, and want some too.

Brandon

I'm not ignoring your extremely helpful posts, just so you know.

I've gotta get out of the library (yes, ours is open on Sundays -- MY tax dollars at work) before someone reports me to John Aschhahahahaha's possie.

I'll contact you via email when I get home.

Thanks again buddy.

SGP

Do you really think they're going to take anyone to court? All I see them doing is weaseling out as much money as possible from the suckers who chicken out and pay the fees. I FedEx's my first package back to them with a letter from my attorney requesting a court date. Haven't heard back since. They're going to keep threatening and threatening as long as possible, getting as many people as possible to sign contracts. Once you sign, you're fucked, you have to keep paying them. Read it carefully, once the patent is overturned, the contract is still valid. Everyone who has settled with them is going to look like an ass in a year, especially Ron Levi with his worthless Acacia stock. I can only pray that eventually everything about how they got all of our information comes out.

WOW this is a great thread! I'm still catching up and reading. A lot of great information here. I also wanted to post our updated list here and add anyone interested. This is a strong reminder of just the few I've found in ONE DAY that have supported the search for prior art, have donated resources, time, money or effort to the cause. This list has just begun. Acacia has 22 employees... how many people do we have on the case?

We stand together against this challenge and are making a difference. Please add your name to the list if you stand behind IMPA or FTPF:

Anonymous Donor ( a tribute to all anonymous donors to FTPF and IMPA )
Amputate Your Head
LeeNoga
Fiveyes
Pleasurepays
Charly
XXXPhoto
Dchottie
Vicki
GoBigtime
Far-L
TheFLY
Fletch XXX
PreciousB
Crockett
Xenium
NoCarrier
Freeadultcontent
DJRCyberAVS
Titmowse
Ravener
BrentD
MrPopup
Hyper
Bambi911xx
Yadayadayada
Icedemon
Greg B
Squirtit
FightThisPatent
Kevin2
ONS
Ludedude
Tootie
Eroswebmaster
LadyMischief
Latinasojourn

It's all about the benjamins..


first and foremost, you cannot ignore them until their Patent has been disproved.

Which means let them take you to court.

Do your homework.

Specifically tell the judge why you believe this patent does not hold validity.. (thats where your homework pays off)

Don't forget the documented resources about their method of enforcing their patent and how you dont see microsoft getting any publicity about settling with them

Present your case to the judge, he is the only one who decides in the end

So after all this input SolarGodPower what are your thoughts?

They have to prove when you had the videos.

I have been in business for almost 4 years but I sure as hell never had paysites or videos the FULL time .

Gez Louise.

I am curious. Is there a case with Microsoft ?

That's right. They have to prove how long you've had video on your site.

MOST sites started out as picture only sites and not until the last year or so put video up.

In any court case you have to PROVE damages. That's the law. You can't just be awarded licensing fees for being on the web for 5 years when you only had video for 1.

Burst.com is suing M$.

They have a video patent as well, theirs is much earlier than Acacia...

M$ was in discussions with Burst.com, then broke off the talks..


I'd dig up the links for ya about it, but i am babysitting a 2 year old, and boy, are they active.


Fight the Patent!

The Next Acacia (besides USA Video and SightSound)?

http://www.burst.com


http://insight.zdnet.co.uk/business/...9116095,00.htm


Fight the Patent!

Didn't ignore your post, Squiritit -- but I'd left the library, before your post on the board. I'm still mulling everything over -- and preparing to talk with Brandon.

In the interim I've continued to talk on the phone with associates, with the consensus being that each on them has taken out a lisc. -- which leaves me dumbfounded. Most of them make 10 times the money I make each year, and they could easily decide to fight this in court and/or support the group headed by Far-L -- instead they've caved. The rational side of my brain says: "Well, if they're making a decision like that -- it seems clear what to do." While the other part of me, the part that dislikes injustice and bullies says: "Fight this bullshit." So I'm caught toggling between the two.

Those are my thoughts right now.

If you have not been served with court papers its not the end of the world yet. You have time to collect your guns and ammo.

Just because they send you a deadline does not mean its time to give up and feed into their abusive patents or shutdown. The deadline is ONLY for the sweetheart deal offer, not that on Nov 30th your going to end up shut down and in court.

Once you have recieved the court papers, show up in court and ask for a jury trial, this will give you another 3-12 months most likely to plan your defense. Even after the jury trial starts you could ask for a more time to collect more evidence.

I have recieved their email, packet and deadline letter, I am still not going to pay these fucks. They can not close down your website till a court order has been placed for one, so basically if they are not sueing your right now then they can not get a court order to shut you down.

Hang in there, don't give up so easy and so soon, support IMPA and FTPF as much as you can and plan your defense in case it is needed, but I don't think you should cave into them over a deadline letter, I won't.

FTPF would have to answer more on the issue to go to court with you and such, I am sure they will post in this thread (or have already before I read the whole thread) to give you some insight.

Yes that is a good idea too, we took all our streaming samples offline and replaced them with vidcaps for customers to see for our content sales of video until this thing is settled. If your no longer infringing then the only dog they can fight is the one for past infringing.

I'm not sane.

<h3>I will not report to Acacia.</h3>

So are you saying you would let it go that far in your case?
Not go to court, let them get a default judgement and then finally a court order to shut down your site?

Not true at all, I do not make $100K a year and they targeted me on the first round of packets like the other huge companies got. They go after anyone and everyone its doesn't matetr big or small. They will feed off the smaller guys better then the larger guys because they figure the smaller guys who can't afford to spend $350K to fight them will jsut pay $1500 a year and keep their mouths shut, well guess waht? I am not paying $1500 a year and I will not keep my big fat mouth shut either;)

No the post stated that I will not give into them just because they sent me 3 warnigns or wahtever you want to call them, I will pass on the sweetheart deal since I only started offering video samples on our site 2 years ago and have sold less then they think I have which would not constitute even $80.00 to them over the past 2 years let alone $1500.00 per year.

What I was saying is that I will not take the sweetheart deal, I will wait past the Nov 30th deadline to see what happens, but they can not shut me down yet because they haven't even filed to take me to court yet, so no judge will give them a shutdown order when they aren't even sueing me yet. If a judge does thern theres going to be a much larger battle against that judge and the court then acacia could ever think about;)

I cannot tell you not to settle.

I can tell you that we are commited to fighting it and look upon every day as one day closer to proving ourselves correct. The only pleasant thing about the wait is that more and more people are coming forward to search for the wealth of prior art that exists out there.

My best suggestion is to call Acacia before they sue you and ask them to explain in lucid detail and not hyperbole about how your method of transmitting video infringes their patent.

Get a dialog going. With us, and with them. Hear both sides. Then do whatever is best for your business.

Remember, Acacia has been threatening these so called deadlines too for months and they keep changing them and not adding all the new suits that have been long promised.

Does not mean that they won't be suing more soon. Just means that they have a really hard time keeping promises and deadlines.... and they think we are the unprofessional ones...

Do you think the search for prior art must continue or do you feel you've reached the apex with prior art and really don't need more?

Let me know! :thumbsup

Hang in there!:glugglug

We stand together against this challenge and are making a difference. These people stand behind IMPA and/or FTPF:

Anonymous Donor ( a tribute to all anonymous donors to FTPF and IMPA )
Amputate Your Head
LeeNoga
Fiveyes
Pleasurepays
Charly
XXXPhoto
Dchottie
Vicki
GoBigtime
Far-L
TheFLY
Fletch XXX
PreciousB
Crockett
Xenium
NoCarrier
Freeadultcontent
DJRCyberAVS
Titmowse
Ravener
BrentD
MrPopup
Hyper
Bambi911xx
Yadayadayada
Icedemon
Greg B
Squirtit
FightThisPatent
Kevin2
ONS
Ludedude
Tootie
Eroswebmaster
LadyMischief
Latinasojourn

More people behind you just on this list then all of the 22 employees of Acacia!! ;)

For each person that list there may be 10 to 100 people that they who would support this effort...so the numbers are growing, and so is the pledge counter!

Fight the Patent!

Squirtit: I am not an attorney so I am not the one to answer that question, but I bet the more the better and that every bit helps.

Not trying to beat a dead horse..just trying to understand is this:
if you get a court date, will you go to court then?
Should you lose the case in court, are you willing to go that extra mile and NOT pay them what the court rules you to pay?

As I said yes I will go into court and file for a jury trial as I stated before and then take that time to prepare a defense case, I cannot afford a high priced lawyer so I am going to try to defend myself using what prior art and such is found and the words and wisdom of those who are helping to fight this along with us all. So I would say in everyoens best interest lets beat this before I get up there and make an ass of myself trying to defend myself (if they let me, if not then I guess I will take a court appointed lawyer).

There are always the need for the gold nuggets within the rubble, harder to find, but have strong value.

The leads on http://www.FightThePatent.com/v2/Searching.html are some possible gold mines to be searching.

I have been making phone calls to track down people that were involved with the technology on the searching page...getting some good results, other results like Leonard C. is he's too busy to help.

This is where FTPF would have given him a reason to be motivated to help.... pledges still keep coming in...


Fight the Patent!

If the patent is valid or applicable then i am more than willing to pay. I am not anti-patent. I believe that Acacia's patents are not valid nor are they applicable by any stretch and that is what we are going to court to prove.

Hi Far-L,

My site is a little one that brings in less than 60k a year and doesn't rely on video. Any video I may have had is gone. I have not been contacted by Acacia either. I plan on supplying video to my customers via CD just like I did before bandwidth got cheap. Thankfully, I have that option while this patent crap gets hashed out.

Even so, I think everyone who cares should be donating to the defense fund for the very next court case. This is the most important cause right now.


Send me an email and let me know how I can contribute to the defense fund. It won't be thousands, but if enough people pitch in, it may help.

[email protected]

I hear ya on trying to work around the Acacia and other video patents, but another patent that lingers out there, is PanIP who has a patent for the graphical and textual presentation of information on a video screen for making a sale..transalation, selling stuff from a website.

Their patent is at: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/5,576,951


This website http://www.youmaybenext.com is trying to bring a group of defendants together to fight against this patent.

And judging by their message board, there is another company (http://www.internetretailer.com/dailyNews.asp?id=7838) that has similar patent claims.

The more you read about these patent (abuse) cases, the more and more your head hurts...

There should be a Congressional study on how much money is lost by businesses every year on patent litigiation, especially the statistic where the patent was found to be invalid.


Fight the Patent!

Actually, the more I read this shit the more I think about opening a hosting company in Ghana or some other lawless country! Anyone interested in that?

OI spoke to Spike last week and he said the more the merrier, because it is going to make Acacia look as if they firstly did not do their job in searching for it and that their tactics were typical in Patent cases. Frighten people into paying the license fees, by making it cheaper to settle.

I gave Squirtit $1,000 worth of free content from our sites and will do the same to any other person who finds evidence of "Prior Art" that Spike uses. Any evidence you find should be sent to Spike at Homegrown.com

What upsets me is I'm sitting in the Czech Republic and can pull everything back to here so easily and operate without having Acacia follow me, all I have is an unused Californian Corperation. But I'm so intent on getting this crushed, because if we do not there will be more Patent cases to come.