Is This Rape?
 

Reading this summary of the girl's statements to the police I don't think this is rape. I do believe everything the girl says, mostly because there are many opportunities where she could have made Bryant look much much worse being a 'he said, she said' case. I think Kobe was wrong but to me this isn't a rape, certainly not one worth putting him behind bars for.

When an adult female flirts with a celebrity, accepts an invitation to his hotel room alone late at night, then engages in a 5 minute long make out session consensually ............ sorry, things happen, she got fucked when she really didn't want to, boo hoo, happens hundreds of thousands of times all over the world. She did say 'no' a couple of times, according to her,not that forcefully.

I've already spoken to people who are interpreting Kobe's request to her to keep her mouth shut as some kind of admission that he knew he did something wrong. No - what he was asking her was to keep her mouth shut so his 18 year old wife wouldn't find out. That's what Kobe was worried about. I don't think he thought he was taking her against her will.

**************************************************







Summary Of Accuser's Statement To Det. Doug Winter
Alleged Victim Tells Detective She Was Raped From Behind, Against Chair

UPDATED: 8:01 p.m. MDT October 9, 2003

Eagle County Detective Doug Winters said he talked to the alleged victim at her parents home and convinced her to be interviewed at the sheriff's department.

The alleged victim told Winter that she was excited about meeting Bryant, a new guest at the resort. She said that while she was showing Bryant and two people in his entourage up to their rooms, he pulled her aside and asked her to give him a tour of the hotel.

She said there was "mutual flirting" during the tour, Winters said.

She said Bryant invited her back to his room and she went in and sat on a couch while he sat on a chair nearby. They chatted about tattoos and he asked her to show the tattoo she said she had on her ankle. She did. He asked if she wanted to go in the hot tub and she said no.

Winters said that her shift was ending and that she wanted to go home. "She was starting to feel a bit uncomfortable," Winters said.

When she thought she was leaving, she asked for Bryant's autograph in which he replied that he would give it to her later when she came back to his room.

She said he asked her for a hug and she gave him one and then he began kissing her mouth, her neck -- actions she said she agreed to. She said the kissing lasted about 5 minutes. She said he then began to grope her breasts and butt. He began putting his hand under her panties, and she told him that she had to leave.

She said she was trying to leave when Bryant "grabbed her around the neck," Winters said.

She said that he was trying to block her movement. She said she was afraid and he started to follow her as she moved toward the door. She said that he had both of his hands around her neck and was "controlling her movements."

She said he then bent her over a chair, pulled up black dress and pulled her panties down. She said that she told him that she needed to leave "and at one point, stated 'No,'" Winters said.

She said she began crying when the sexual intercourse started and didn't stop until it was over about 5 minutes later. She said the sex was painful.

She said she told Bryant "No" at least twice. When asked if she was yelling "No" she told Winters that she said "No" in a normal voice. She said he had ignored her.

She said that while the intercourse was occurring he asked, "You're not going to tell anyone, right?" She said no. He asked her to look at him and again confirm that she would not tell anyone. She said she did that because she was afraid he would hurt her even more. She said when the incident was "about to end" she started prying his hands off her neck, and then he stopped.

She said Bryant wasn't holding her neck so tight she couldn't breathe but she was afraid that he was going to choke her.

She said she turned around and pulled up her underwear. The woman said that Bryant forced her to kiss his penis after the attack. She said Bryant asked her to go clean up in the bathroom. She said she was in the bathroom for about 5 minutes, fixing her hair and wiping her face. Before she left, Bryant reminded her that she shouldn't tell anyone and she said she would remain quiet. She said she then went down to the front desk and finished her work and then told the bellman everything that had happened.

Winters said that while he was interviewing her, there was another deputy in the room as well as a victim's advocate. The interview was videotaped but the videotape was not allowed to be submitted in the preliminary hearing because it was deemed too prejudicial. An audiotape of Kobe Bryant's statement was also pulled from the preliminary hearing.

Winters said that before she began telling her story, he told her that if this was a false accusation, that she would be in big trouble. She said that she understood.

Winters said she sounded serious when she was telling him her story.

Quicker then uncle ben's rice!

cliff notes?

An incredibly stupid point of view.

Was the girl dumb or niave?

Maybe.

Does that mean its ok to rape her?

No.

I hope some of you guys with this viewpoint someday end up in a hotel room drunk with a big gay jock who anally rapes you while choking you, just so I can say:

"You should have known better."

Guys have to get with the program. A girl can say no before or during sex. Consenting to have you kiss her is not the same as consenting to get fucked. Maybe his incredibly bad breath turned her off; it doesn't matter.

If the story is true, Kobe is a looser and an asshole.

sorry pal this just isn't a huge tragedy, i think Kobe did wrong, I just don't think what he did was criminal. She was making out with him 20 minutes after meeting him alone in his hotel room. And if this was my sister I wouldn't feel much different. Men are men, we are programmed to be sexual aggressors - he didn't drag her into his room, he didn't force her to kiss and pet for 5 long minutes - he ignored a couple of 'no' 's from her, hell he was so worked up he may not have even heard them - she admits she didn't raise her voice.

I wouldn't have done what Kobe did - but i just don't think he should go to jail if this is exactly how this went down.

WTF??? *IF* you believe her like you said you did....then of course it's rape! Just because she make out with him doesn't mean she would have sex with him willingly.

Now, that being said.....

I think women should start taking some responsibility for their actions. She did not deserve to be raped, but she was putting herself in the situation for it to happen. If a strange man walks up to you on the street, and wants you to go into his hotel room, would you? And don't give me this crap about him being famous, and feeling like you know him through TV. Sports stars have never really had great reputations.

you have got to be kidding me? You lose all credibility when you say ' A girl can say no before or during sex.' hahahaha...... you must be a virgin. So I'm 15 minutes into sex with a chick, she's sucked my cock, i've eaten her pussy, and i'm on top of her for 5 minutes - then she goes 'NO' - and I carry on - I'm a rapist? HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHHAHAHH.............. .......

Sorry judge. " I had the bitch bent over with my hands around her neck pushing her face into the arm of the chair and wall as I forecfully probed my thick black king snake in and out of her tight hole. How was I supposed to hear her say no. Judge, I am innocent.'

:1orglaugh

yep.

http://teenadvice.about.com/library/...gsdaterape.htm

'NO MEANS NO! If a person says no to sex (no matter how quietly or unconvincingly) and you go ahead with it anyway, that is rape'

http://www.injusticebusters.com/index.htm/NOmeansNO.htm

Well Koby is black! And blacks have bigger dicks right? She lived in a town that is probably 99% white! So, she's probably never fucked a black guy before! :1orglaugh :1orglaugh That's why it was probably so painful!

jDoG

What I don't get and maybe the ladies can help me here. is If a girl gets raped is she going to tell someone right away like a bellman? Not be embarresed and then tell a close friend.


She said she then went down to the front desk and finished her work and then told the bellman everything that had happened

Sounds like a set up to me.
I know girls who look and sound like they can do no wrong and I've seen them also lie like no tomorrow.

There are a lot of laws that I disagree with. He's guilty of something here probably but not rape in my view. They should make another classification for this - convict him of 'pig like behaviour' - $1,000 fine and you have to take some senstivity training.

I think it is good for the NBA.

Maybe the Mavs have a shot in the West! 4-5 white guys that can play, gotta love it!

Women act in many different ways after being raped. Some tell right away, and some never tell. Personally I am a little skeptical of the whole damn thing.

Mutt - You are a fucking pig!

So, if I hold you down by the neck and shove my dick up your ass, while you're saying no, it's not a crime?

Wanna go camping?

fraid not sweetie, i am about as docile a guy as they come. this girl was ready to play with a married man in his hotel room.

IF this was any other man other than Kobe Bryant or a celebrity this wouldn't have gone this far. It would have been written off as a 'bad experience', she wouldn't have gone to the police because she knew she bears alot of responsibility for getting herself into the situation. It's only when she thought to herself 'Kobe Bryant just fucked me and treated me like a cheap whore' , that's when the wheels started turning in her head. "Kobe Bryant just raped me!' ......... if his name was Joe Shmoe she'd have done nothing.

well the girls blood was found on kobe's shirt so not looking too good for him

the great master, Son of Rage, once said "No, means Yes" :glugglug

If I go on a camping trip with you and I start making out with you for 5 minutes , if i wind up with a dick up my ass I'm not going to be shocked. I'm certainly not going to go the police and say I was raped. I was stupid enough to flirt and make out with somebody who turned out to be a pig. You cad!

heh, fucking weirdo. If he did do it, he deserves to goto jail for a few years so he can get ass raped and see how it feels. But, that will probably never happen because he has so much money he can pay the right people.

sick

Hey, I resent that. I am not a cad. I'm a scoundrel.

I agree with you on most parts. I think she was asking for it, BUT that doesn't mean she *deserved* it. I just don't understand how you can believe everything she said and think it is not rape! Do you have a daughter? You would want to kill the mother-fucker (at least I would). Then I would kick my daughters ass for putting herself in such a stupid situation. You have to remember she is very young, and young people make some really stupid decisions.

Depends on the jury.

i never said she 'deserved' it. I said she shouldn't be shocked that it happened which is a long way from saying that she 'deserved' it. She played with fire, she got burnt. From her own statement this was not some violent act, it was a brutish sexual act. I would feel much differently if there is evidence of scratches and bruises on both parties indicative of a struggle. Why didn't she scream 'NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!'?

If someone molests my child, they deserve to have their balls cut off, stuffed in their mouth, and left to bleed to fuckin death. That is still illegal. *IF* he did what she said, it was against the law, and he deserves to go to jail. Period. And, yes, a woman, or man for that matter, should be able to say "No" at any given time.

looks like there is no thing as talking ehh. What I want to point out here is that we are all very diffrent..and react diffrent. I know beacuse I'm more sensitive so I may have felt threat or a need to go there just to make it up for him. I mean it only a couple of minutes after all I can handle that!!! understand super-nova?

ohh..did you know about Bryants repetation before this?? read on

:)

I don't need to go to a strange mans hotel room to talk

HUH? You felt a threat so you go to his room???

I knew nothing about Kobe Bryant...never met him. Neither did she, and that was my point...super-nova!

There are obviously varying degrees of rape. Many rapes are violent horrific acts that usually dont even involve sexual intercourse. The rapist degrades and humilitates the victim via the most unimaginable acts of violence. I know a lot of people will say that rape is rape, and from a legal point of view that may be the case. But it is nieve to think all rapes are the same and all rapes should recieve the same sentencing.

This case with Bryant is "rape" but common sense would suggest that there are some mitigating circumstances and my opinion is that he may have misread the situation and ended up going too far.

I know in my younger years many girls I slept with would say no at some stage or an other, and I quickly learnt after being told to stick my cock back in that "no" actually meant "yes" These days if a girl even mentions the "no" I'm out the door, better safe than sorry.

Spooky

Question: What if AFTER you stick your dick in, with her totally consenting to it, and she jumps up and cries RAPE and runs out the door to call the police? What is a guy to do? Not only are we put in jail, forced to make bail, lose our job, but we?re also the ones forced to go through the harsh criminal legal system. Even after that, they?ll give you a plea bargain like: take the plea bargain now, plead guilty and serve 8 years OR take it to trial and lose and you're in it for life. And it doesn't stop there. There are so many rape shield laws protecting 'her' that getting her to even testify would be a task in its own sense. They act like women are not capable of lying and it's not like yelling "Rape" is such a hard thing to do considering how scandalous women are these days.

no means no

although im all for my black brothers....if the things happened exactly as she said i describe it as rape.


all start from here:

She said she was trying to leave when Bryant "grabbed her around the neck," Winters said.

She said that he was trying to block her movement. She said she was afraid and he started to follow her as she moved toward the door. She said that he had both of his hands around her neck and was "controlling her movements."

thats why every time i fuck a girl i ask her if she wants to have sex before i actually put it in.

you're doing good

i go a step further and have her sign a contract

better be safe, than sorry

You're an idiot, that's the law.

i've got about 50 IQ points on you so if I'm an idiot according to the medical books you are a certified imbecile.

For those of you not following the case..

Pamela Mackey asked the detective if the injuries and trauma to the vaginal area was consistent with a person who had had sex with 3 different people in 3 different days.


From the medial report from the hospital...

- No medical treatment was needed
- No topical ointment
- No painkillers


:1orglaugh

WTF. Nowadays Everything is blown WAY THE FUCK outta proportion. Its the norm for women to want to have the Male/Female are equal. I can do anything you can do.
What about the courts/Laws, why havent they followed suit. The Systems of court and law tailor themselves to the benefit of women no matter the case. If its man against woman in any type of litigatory action, the woman has the upper hand EVERY time and I personally think its Bullshit.

Some fucking women use that power to their Advantage. And I think every one of those hahahahas that do should be hunted down, RAPED FOR REAL, and left to bleed to death.

On this whole Kobe Deal...

WTF. All of you fucks preaching that if your in the middle of Consensual sex and the girl suddenly decides to say no stop i cant do this, that your going to stop right @ that second put your fucking pecker away and talk about the weather?

Fuck NONE of you will.

Now before you get all on me...keep reading...

Continuing to have sex after the word NO has been said is considered rape. BUT, is it the same if:

Were already engaged in intercourse and after a considerable amount of time has passed, one of the two engaged in the activity suddenly wishes to stop, but the other keeps on going,

As it would be if:

I pick up a girl off the street, And force her to do the deed from the beginning...

No. Its not.

My point is Rape is a strong word. The Punishment is the same for something that could be related to a miscommunication or accident, as it is would be for premeditation.

<h1>CLIFFNOTES</h1><br>
<li>The girl thats accusing kobe is hiding behind US laws that are tailored to protect women, when she could be just as much at fault as him. <br>
<li>The Laws That Protect women Are straight up BULLSHIT. Women want to be treated equally, lets make laws that reflect the equality as well.<br>
<li>Rape Should have a charge structure like murder. From manslaughter all the way to first degree<br>
<li>Any C-UNT that abuses the lobsided power of the law to "witch hunt" guys for rape and the like and put away these men, should all fall victim to that of which they accused. I mean if they are going down for it, at least make sure they are guilty of it. Let em rape the bitches until they bleed.<br>

:1orglaugh

who gives a shit.

Fuck it

yeah afer Pamela asked that, the judge stopped the hearing and brought the lawyers to the back to talk. ridiculous.