Most paysites are pathetic
 

It's true. Most paysites either have way too little content (a few dozen picture sets and some plugins simply isn't enough) irrelevant content (why the hell would you put more cumshot and big tit sets on a bondage site than actual bondage sets?) or overused content (who the hell wants to pay to see porn that he already has seen dozens of times?).

Aside from that, many paysite owners seem to have failed to notice that videos don't just come in plug-in packages.

And what the fuck is up with navigation? If TGPs can give their *free* porn descriptions or preview thumbs, then your *paid* porn can also. 1000 pics, with 9 pics per page, on pages named "Page 1"-"Page 112" won't cut it.

Here's a few hints if you have a paysite:
- Have a nice amount of unique content. If you can't afford unique content, then you shouldn't have a fucking paysite.
- Have video clips (unless your site really isn't aimed at that - beautiful photography can go a long way too). If you can't afford those, or can't afford the bandwidth they burn, then you shouldn't have a fucking paysite.
- Have a large amount of relevant content. For fuck's sake, it's what people join your site for in the first place. 20 picture sets won't make the surfer want to pay $20 a month. If you can't afford a good amount of relevant content, then you shouldn't have a fucking paysite.
- Have good navigation with good gallery descriptions or preview thumbs. Preferably both. If you aren't willing to put in the time to do that, then you shouldn't have a fucking paysite.
- Update regularly, and visible to the members. (also, previews of future updates help rebills) If you can't afford regular updates, or aren't willing to put the time in, then you shouldn't have a fucking paysite.

After you have all those things - and ONLY after - start thinking about:
- Having a crapload of filler content. If you wait for specials and such, $10k will go a long fucking way.
- Having a bunch of plugins. They can be a nice add-on, but they're not the reason the surfer joins your site.


Maybe surfers are less likely to buy memberships because of all the free porn out there. However, the ones that do sure as hell won't do it again after having paid for a couple of crappy paysites. My guess is that the thousands of shitty rip-off paysites out there are at least as much to blame for bad ratios as the amount of free porn.

So, the next time you paysite owners out there complain about free porn "ruining the business", ask yourself if maybe you aren't at least as much to blame.

That about sums it up....:thumbsup

I was in a teen site the other day and it had femdom content in it.

sorry..i thought u wouldnt notice

ya, all you with shitty paysites are saturating the market, die bitches :BangBang:

If the majority are shitty, won't a great site really shine even better?

Was it at least teen femdom? :winkwink:

I was in a bondage site tonight, and it actually had 18 bondage sets and hundreds of completely irrelevant sets.
And a bbw site, which had 26 bbw sets and a page full of plugins.
And an asian site, which only had a long list of "Page 1", "Page 2", "Page 3" etc on the main page, each leading to a gallery - low quality pic sets spread out/chopped up over multiple pages, all subcategories thrown together.
Etc.

check out my spanking site tell me if I deliver what I saw I will, ICQ for user and pass

It would, unless ofcourse the surfer had learned his lesson after a few failed tries.

i love it :glugglug

does this mean you are going to chargeback the membership you bought to my site?

If you don't mind the review being put online, I'd gladly do that tomorrow :glugglug

word

What paysites would u say are great?

What paysite do you own?

Just curiouse...

no prob I ICQed you the login

thanks

I got a boatload of unique content with big crystal clear tv quality videos...

So I would say that I have a great paysite...

Do you think shitty sites help your repeat members and overall retention?

Surfer sees your gallery, joins your site. Gets off for a month, decides to try another site. Sees another gallery, joins, absolute crap. Cancels new site membership, comes back to you, joins, and stays much longer.

I'm sure this happens. The real question is, does it happen enough to make a difference?

--

You don't really say much in regards to operating a good site. But every now and then you leak out little tid bits or make suggestive comments. I've picked up on them and am in the process of implementing them.

Thanks a lot for the help. I do appreciate it.

I joined kobe tai's site.. it had 2 movies .. only 1 was hardcore... I cancelled about 30 seconds after I watched the 1st movies and am seriously considering charging back. What a blatant fucking rip off.

Besides the video, I have it covered :-) I need to do the previews of the upcoming content, I need a voting system so my members can tell me what they want to see next. Im sitting on so much content its not even funny :-) just gotta work it all.

Though, im differing on the "relevant content" part. If you are just buying content to fill your members area, why not go for a few different niches? Sure, get lots of filler content of your main focus, but a few other things wont hurt. Heck, Carol's members come see me, and im way different than she is :-)

one thing i've learned from selling content to some quality paysites - members do return to those sites, they might cancel but a bunch will return eventually. that doesn't happen with cookie cutter plugin sites.

With relevant content I was referring to both exclusive and cheap relevant content, the filler content I mentioned (which comes after, and only after the relevant content, and is nowhere near as important) covers all niches. So, I think we are pretty much in agreement :glugglug

It's an interesting phenomenon though that many amateur paysites easily beat most of the "pro" stuff. Probably because they actually care about their sites :)

Seriously? Damn that's brutal....:BangBang:

bad paysites do much for the video rental biz.
you can rent a porn vid for 99cents or $1.99, no bullshit to put up with.

thats a customer lost.

like the man said if you can't do it right don't do it.

the internet is no longer new or novel, its just another way to spend time for surfers, like TV or anything else.

better do something special if you want that surfer dollar.


thats my
2 cents worth

Don't forget research!
If you're going to get into a niche, at least learn what about it turns people on. Don't just buy a bunch of themed content shot by photographers who dont know wtf they are doing.
95% of my material is shot in house. I cant stand dealing with models, but it's the only way to get the job done right, and satisfy my members.
SUBSTANCE SELLS!

Have you ever checked out insite adult?s membership area? OMG, how high are their chargebacks and how low is member retention. Their pay sites are prolly the same as most 4free sites:)lol
I think homegrownvideo.com has to be one of the best amateur sites around. No one has a bigger REAL amateur video collection online. I wouldn?t be surprised if they still have members from last year. It?s a shame CE makes ?em charge so much a month. I bet 25-30 bucks a month would blow member retention threw the roof.
A lot of the reality sites have good member?s areas too. I like how the actual movies are on the preview/tour, so the surfer knows exactly what?s inside.
Also, the movie archives (avs movie sites) like adult bouncer and deluxe pass have the right idea. I mean a $20 a month membership at adultbouncer gives the surfer access to 1000?s of gigs of dvd quality movies. I bet they make more off each sign-up than the mega sites that charge 40-50 a month do.
One more thing, let?s chill on the cross bills guys. Don?t have to stop ?em all together, but 1 unchecked box that?s a free trial or at least costs less than your trial would be great. Just imagine how things will be like 5 years from now if we keep this 4 cross bills per $2.95 trial up. It?s like some dude after a few drinks one night buys a free trial to some hardcore site and gets billed 30 bucks for some mature tranny slaves that like to get pissed on by twinks with monster cocks site.

Don?t know why I posted this, I guess it?s just that there?s so much over priced crap out there and it?s only going to hurt the industry. If more sites were like the few I mentioned above, charge backs would be a lot lower and the money would be a lot better or at least a lot cleaner.

Does better content acutally retain more members when you are paying out on a trial.? I dont think so.If exclusive content retained much better most of the big pps programs would be paying out more on their reality sites then they do on their normal paysites

good thread. some nice information in here

I think reality sites have advantageous and disadvantageous.

On the one hand they're unique and interesting. On the other hand, many of them are merely a novelty to the surfer so they buy a membership from sheer curiousity but not to remain a member for months.

Maybe an analogy would be hearing a joke more than once. It's great the first time but the punchline gets old after hearing it over and over again (not that it works this way for all sites, or all the time, but I think it does sometimes).

good point, i also thought about the same thing
it must get old quick for the members

amen

I agree with these sentiments. Even though I am a producer of original content myself, I recently spent over a grand on extra photo and video content in my fairly narrow niche for BrazilXXX.com so that I will have a lot more targeted content for members to peruse. I haven't been operating for long, but I can already see that it is tough to retain members nowadays.

This is indeed a good thread, for new and experienced alike.

Punkworld's advice is good, in my opinion, even if you can't make all the people happy all the time. It honestly shocks me, how many sites have damn near the same off topic shovelwear content on the inside. People promote the sites, due to payout or whatever, but have never even seen the inside of the sites they are selling as "great!" At a certain level, sure, I don't expect everyone to have seriously tried hard to get off to all the sites they promote, but I like people with some degree of familiarity with the sites they sell, barring high traffic TGPs, where the expectation is a little different.

I know our traffic likes good quality photography of unique girls. Stuff they won't see everywhere. But, as someone who likes hot content, I really love the sites that show me stuff I couldn't see elsewhere as well.

Mostly, I wanted to say that this is a nice thread PunkWorld, and it points out some stuff to keep in mind. Thanks. Although we have pretty much all the bases covered, I'll always look around for new ways to improve.

Forrest- :)

What? I should start 10 paysites soon? Okay.

I run some sites at DP and those guys and Clem kick ass. The surfer is truly gettin an awesome deal when joining. The sheer amount of dvd quality high res movies totally kicks ass. My retention is fuckin tight. The surfer on a 56k cant download all the movies before the months up :glugglug

well deluxepass and adultbouncer are different they have a shitload of content plus thtey dont have a trial

The best membersection I have ever seen is nastydollar's one!
massive pic, massive movies, download - stream everything! of high quality!

Sign up for captainstabbin, you'll get the other sites for free!
These guys must have a great retention!

guys with shitty paysites, pull the credit card sign up at one of their sites, watch en learn!

I'm not so sure that paysites with shit content are as pathetic as free sites with good content... That should be the real complaint...

Imagine a world, where Most everyone made people pay for porn.... Oh wait, that's 1996, when everyone in the biz made boatloads of money, we don't want that....lol

I don't want to come off as one of those old school whiners, but the reality is, that we could all be making more money... How much would a TGP make if they charged say $4.95 a month to view their listings? How much would freesite makers make, if they all chaged a nomial fee as well?

I say, if they're charging surfers to see, they are at least doing something right! I do agree that they could be doing more, in fact I pulled Making Bacon down, partly for that reason, it needed to be rebuilt with better member areas and give people more "bang for their buck", but the important part is the the buck, not the bang!:)

When I started my extreme amateur site I only had around 5,000 pics and 100 vids, plus heaps of bonus content. I did have trouble with the speed of my hosting, and maybe that had an impact but I did find that a large % of members cancelled almost straight after joining.

Now that the hosting has been fixed, and we have increased our exclusive pics and vids to over 15,000 (growing weekly) the members just don't seem to want to cancel, and if they do they come back after a month or so.

I am lucky that I can shoot all the content that I need myself, and if I did not have that luxury I would not be able to operate a paysite successfully. It would just be too hard to get hold of the content needed to keep the surfers happy...:glugglug

Spooky

I also run some movie sites and the retention is fucking insane!

Thats alot better than I expected.. well written! :thumbsup
And so true.. unfortunantly :(

cheers Sly :)

Shit - I've got a free site that has more content then any pay site I've ever seen and I've seen a shit load of them.

They invest all there efforts in advertising but when it comes to
there members area they suck.

That Russian guy Oliver works the same way.
I checked his site out once and it's a good thing I had a backdoor pass cause I would had asked for my money back.

What a rip-off !!! :feels-hot

:warning

a lot of bs sites out there with the plugin bullshit...kills the entire industry. Who wants to signup to a site for bs plugins. You get a surfer one time with that, and they are never signing up again

Great site you have there :thumbsup
Nice amount of high quality exclusive content, both pictures and lots of movies, pretty diverse and it seems you update quite frequently. I bet retention is pretty nice :glugglug

Some constructive criticism (not to take away from the fact that it is a great site): some more stories would be nice, some spanking/sex content would be nice, and a bunch of filler content could add a bit (for the occasional member in the mood for "something different")

Other than that, it's one of the better sites I've seen this year. Definitely :thumbsup :thumbsup

Something screwed this thread up quite badly :helpme

i gotta agree. i have a DP site and an AB site. retention is very good. i also have tried promoting paysite sponsors but i get much better ratio when i send my traffic to my own sites because crap paysites have poisoned a lot of good customers :mad: i think anything above 1:1000 is absolutely shit when the traffic is filtered and targeted.

Excellent initial post and resulting thread! Finally something useful and intelligent comes out of GFY :Graucho

Stacy, I did the voting option a few years ago by putting up a sample photo from one of three upcoming shoots and let them vote. THe downside is that you NEVER get to post that shoot that noone votes for, but which a few quiet folks might enjoy, like foot fetish or something. So be careful with that if you intend to publish the results of hte voting :)

Retention is possible. I have members who have kept coming back (I don't have any auto-rebilling at all) for four or five years now. They email me when they remember an archive set, and are still totally into the site. I think an important part that was missed is easy navigation for the surfer to find what he wants efficiently, without swimming around in circles.

my :2 cents:

sig too big

For my part
it's the consoles that pisses me off !!