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Mr.Fiction

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Idiots in Congress waste more time on flag burning

06-04-2003, 09:58 AM

House passes 5th flag-burning ban in 8 years
Senate approval seen as less likely; measure also needs states' OK

WASHINGTON - In what Democrats called an annual GOP rite of spring, the Republican-controlled House on Tuesday passed an amendment to the Constitution to criminalize flag-burning for the fifth time in eight years.

Senate passage is less likely. The constitutional amendment needs a two-thirds majority in the House and Senate and approval by three-fourths of state legislatures.

Burning an American flag shows disrespect for America, and the majority of the American people approve of legally protecting Old Glory, supporters said.

"If we allow its defacement, we allow our country's gradual decline," said Rep. Steve Chabot, R-Ohio.

Democratic Rep. Mel Watt of Charlotte tried to amend the bill to protect people who consider their desecration of the flag an expression of their First Amendment right to free speech.

Watt's amendment was voted down 296-129.

Lawmakers have debated the flag amendment almost annually since a 5-4 Supreme Court decision in 1989 saying flag-burning was a protected free speech right.

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/6008358.htm

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06-04-2003, 10:01 AM

This issue is sto stupid. If you restrict the way people are allowed to express themselves it is no longer the land of the free and the flag doesn't mean shit.

As long as you don't violate anyone else's rights, it nobody's business. There is no "right to not see anyone burn the American flag". If they pass this bullshit, I want to see all the pants made out of flags come off the shelf and all the trucks with flags in their back windows ticketed and homeowners who fly their flags improperly fined. Otherwise it's just hypocrisy.

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06-04-2003, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by SpaceAce
This issue is sto stupid. If you restrict the way people are allowed to express themselves it is no longer the land of the free and the flag doesn't mean shit.

As long as you don't violate anyone else's rights, it nobody's business. There is no "right to not see anyone burn the American flag". If they pass this bullshit, I want to see all the pants made out of flags come off the shelf and all the trucks with flags in their back windows ticketed and homeowners who fly their flags improperly fined. Otherwise it's just hypocrisy.

SpaceAce

I bet they will make it so it has to be "intentional", that way they can enforce it against people they don't like only.

No Southerner flying a ripped up flag on the back of his pickup will ever be targeted, but every punk kid in Berkeley will be fair game.

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06-04-2003, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

I bet they will make it so it has to be "intentional", that way they can enforce it against people they don't like only.

No Southerner flying a ripped up flag on the back of his pickup will ever be targeted, but every punk kid in Berkeley will be fair game.

I comfort myself with the fact that they have failed to make this law stick for like the last 30 consecutive years.

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06-04-2003, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by SpaceAce
This issue is sto stupid. If you restrict the way people are allowed to express themselves it is no longer the land of the free and the flag doesn't mean shit.

I agree.

Take note Mr. Fiction, I disagree with the Republicans.

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#6

06-04-2003, 10:15 AM

You know, I agree with the whole free speech thing, but damn it sure must be a big slap in the face to the hundreds of thousands who have served during wars, and to the hundreds of thousands of survivors of those who died during wars.

While it is just a "symbol." There are men and women who gave their lives in honor of that "symbol."

You can argue that they were in battle fighting only for self preservation, or defending brothers-in-arms lives, but just speaking to the men in my family who served in WWII they'd let you know they did it for country as well and the flag means a hell of a lot to them.

So yeah, give the fucking hippy pussies their right to burn something they have no clue about and spit in the face of men and women they have no respect for.

We are Rome, let's continue to Fiddle while the flag burns.

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06-04-2003, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by Sly_RJ

I agree.

Take note Mr. Fiction, I disagree with the Republicans.

In this case, it's not just Republicans. While it is a Republican issue, there are a number of Democrats who are stupid enough to vote for this anti-American bullshit too.

Isn't it nice when you and I agree, though.

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06-04-2003, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by eroswebmaster
You know, I agree with the whole free speech thing, but damn it sure must be a big slap in the face to the hundreds of thousands who have served during wars, and to the hundreds of thousands of survivors of those who died during wars.

While it is just a "symbol." There are men and women who gave their lives in honor of that "symbol."

You can argue that they were in battle fighting only for self preservation, or defending brothers-in-arms lives, but just speaking to the men in my family who served in WWII they'd let you know they did it for country as well and the flag means a hell of a lot to them.

So yeah, give the fucking hippy pussies their right to burn something they have no clue about and spit in the face of men and women they have no respect for.

We are Rome, let's continue to Fiddle while the flag burns.

I'm not saying it isn't a slap in the face to our vets. I am also not arguing why our veterans fought. They did, and that's what counts. You won't catch me burning the American flag. There is no right to respect, though. Just because you did something doesn't mean others have to appreciate it. I think the vast majority of Americans appreciate the sacrifices made on their behalf by our soldiers. You can't have a free society if you spend your time silencing dissent, though.

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#9

06-04-2003, 10:20 AM

You tell your stupid Democrats to switch their vote and I'll tell my stupid Republicans to switch theirs. Deal?

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#10

06-04-2003, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

While it is just a "symbol." There are men and women who gave their lives in honor of that "symbol."

They gave their lives to defend the constitution, which says that it is ok to burn the flag.

Congress wants to deface the constitution to protect the flag.

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#11

06-04-2003, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by Sly_RJ
You tell your stupid Democrats to switch their vote and I'll tell my stupid Republicans to switch theirs. Deal?

They don't listen to me, I don't donate over $100,000 a year, or whatever the minimum to be heard is these days.

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#12

06-04-2003, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

They don't listen to me, I don't donate over $100,000 a year, or whatever the minimum to be heard is these days.

Ahaha. Yeh, I bet my $50 donation doesn't give me much pull either.

Ok, now we need to stop agreeing. This is creeping me out.

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#13

06-04-2003, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

They gave their lives to defend the constitution, which says that it is ok to burn the flag.

Congress wants to deface the constitution to protect the flag.

This is exactly what I meant, you can try to spin it however you see fit, but the flag is and was a symbol of all that they were fighting for.

You don't see them raising the constitution at Iwo Jima do you?

You didn't see them covering Saddam's face with a copy of the constitution did you?

No. You saw the flag.

As I stated above, I agree with the free speech aspect of the issue.

However only those who sould stoop so low as to utilize it are nothing but a bunch of fucking hippy pussy wannabes who have no concept of sacrifice.

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#14

06-04-2003, 10:30 AM

::sigh:: idiots. all of them. the freedom of exspression that that flag represents is all encompassing. i'm not endorsing flag burning. but by all means if you feel the need to do to exspress yourself in some way then goddamnit isn't that what america is all about? besides, half the reason anyone burns a flag is because they KNOW without a doubt that it will cause a reaction. if you don't get upset their protest means nothing. i think there are far more rpessing issues that they need to deal with, such as affordable healthcare for everyone, medicare form, education, aid to the poor, and legalization of marijuana.

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06-04-2003, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

They gave their lives to defend the constitution, which says that it is ok to burn the flag.

Congress wants to deface the constitution to protect the flag.

please show me the line in the constitution that says "The unalienable right to burn flags..."

until then shut up dipshit.

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06-04-2003, 10:30 AM

The constitution will not be ammended...but I reserve the right to dislocate a couple of joints of any asshole that attempts to burn a flag in my presence.

When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

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06-04-2003, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head

please show me the line in the constitution that says "The unalienable right to burn flags..."

until then shut up dipshit.

When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

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06-04-2003, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head

please show me the line in the constitution that says "The unalienable right to burn flags..."

until then shut up dipshit.

Please show me the line that says "you do not have the right to burn flags".

Can you?

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#19

06-04-2003, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head

please show me the line in the constitution that says "The unalienable right to burn flags..."

until then shut up dipshit.

It's called free speech.

Show me where it says in the constitution that you have the right to say that the government sucks.

That's what I thought.

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06-04-2003, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by Sly_RJ

Please show me the line that says "you do not have the right to burn flags".

Can you?

don't need to.... the fact that it isn't specifically guaranteed in there allows for my elected officials to make as many damn laws banning it as they deem necessary. The constitution doesn't specifically point out all the rights you DON'T have.... only the one's you have.

Sorry. You lose.

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06-04-2003, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head

don't need to.... the fact that it isn't specifically guaranteed in there allows for my elected officials to make as many damn laws banning it as they deem necessary. The constitution doesn't specifically poitn out all the rights you DON'T have.... only the one's you have.

Sorry. You lose.

You are joking, right?

Where does it say in the constitution that you have any right to disagree with the government at all.

It says you have a right to free speech.

Been an American long?

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06-04-2003, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head

don't need to.... the fact that it isn't specifically guaranteed in there allows for my elected officials to make as many damn laws banning it as they deem necessary. The constitution doesn't specifically point out all the rights you DON'T have.... only the one's you have.

Sorry. You lose.

A law maker proposes some law and you're going to go along with it just because your elected official thinks it's a good idea? Shit. And people call ME a sheep.

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06-04-2003, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by eroswebmaster
You know, I agree with the whole free speech thing, but damn it sure must be a big slap in the face to the hundreds of thousands who have served during wars, and to the hundreds of thousands of survivors of those who died during wars.

While it is just a "symbol." There are men and women who gave their lives in honor of that "symbol."

You can argue that they were in battle fighting only for self preservation, or defending brothers-in-arms lives, but just speaking to the men in my family who served in WWII they'd let you know they did it for country as well and the flag means a hell of a lot to them.

So yeah, give the fucking hippy pussies their right to burn something they have no clue about and spit in the face of men and women they have no respect for.

We are Rome, let's continue to Fiddle while the flag burns.

uh, and can americans criticize their own country? Or would that be a slap in the face of men and women who gave their lives for the country??

if you are a hippy or whatever that is Anti-Globalization, anti-capitalism and hate what your country is about and standing for... yes it is your right to show your disaproval by burning the flag!!!

p.s. will booing national anthems be illegal??

Last edited by xxxdesign-net; 06-04-2003, 10:41 AM.
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#24

06-04-2003, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

It's called free speech.

Show me where it says in the constitution that you have the right to say that the government sucks.

That's what I thought.

Me saying "the government sucks" is free speech. You burning a flag has nothing to do with speech. It's you burning a flag and trying to justify it by calling it speech.

And here we go.... now the wheel of debate can begin to spin madly out of control.

How does one define 'speech'.... (I'll save you the trouble cuz I already know it's coming.)

Well, if you consider your flag burning 'free speech'.... some twisted form of expression.... I'm going to burn your fucking house down and call it free speech.

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#25

06-04-2003, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head

Me saying "the government sucks" is free speech. You burning a flag has nothing to do with speech. It's you burning a flag and trying to justify it by calling it speech.

And here we go.... now the wheel of debate can begin to spin madly out of control.

How does one define 'speech'.... (I'll save you the trouble cuz I already know it's coming.)

Well, if you consider your flag burning 'free speech'.... some twisted form of expression.... I'm going to burn your fucking house down and call it free speech.

You need to do a similar comparison there buddy. You can't burn down HIS house. But by all means, burn down yours. Nobody will care.

Have fun. Oh, don't try to collect fire insurance on it.

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06-04-2003, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by Sly_RJ
But by all means, burn down yours. Nobody will care.

actually, I think they will. Whether I call it free speech or not, it's still arson.

anyway.... whatever. I'm not getting any deeper into this shit today, I got a ton of shit to do.

go burn your flags.

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06-04-2003, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head

Me saying "the government sucks" is free speech. You burning a flag has nothing to do with speech. It's you burning a flag and trying to justify it by calling it speech.

And here we go.... now the wheel of debate can begin to spin madly out of control.

How does one define 'speech'.... (I'll save you the trouble cuz I already know it's coming.)

Well, if you consider your flag burning 'free speech'.... some twisted form of expression.... I'm going to burn your fucking house down and call it free speech.

Burning a flag isn't free speech?

Is a painting free speech?

Is a song free speech?

Is ripping up a picture of someone free speech?

The Internet is not mentioned in the constitution, does that mean that no one has a right to free speech on the Internet?

You either believe in free speech or you don't. Apparently, you don't.

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#28

06-04-2003, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by xxxdesign-net

yes it is your right to burn the flag!!!

Can't read can you?

Show me where I didn't say it wasn't.

I have stated twice in this thread I agree with the whole free speech aspect on this issue.

But it still does not negate the fact that this country is imploding from within.

It does not negate the fact that we are bunch of disenfranchised consumers who know nothing about our neighbor so could care less about them.

It does not negate the fact that civility is all but lost on our streets.

It does not negate the fact that we respect ourselves so little so why should we respect others.

We are Rome, we may not see it fall in our life times, but it will surely fall.

And it won't fall because of our enemies, it will fall from within.

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#29

06-04-2003, 10:43 AM

Mr. Fiction... couple months ago I remember seeing people ripping up posters, flags, and statues in Iraq. Hmm...

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#30

06-04-2003, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

Can't read can you?

Show me where I didn't say it wasn't.

I have stated twice in this thread I agree with the whole free speech aspect on this issue.

But it still does not negate the fact that this country is imploding from within.

It does not negate the fact that we are bunch of disenfranchised consumers who know nothing about our neighbor so could care less about them.

It does not negate the fact that civility is all but lost on our streets.

It does not negate the fact that we respect ourselves so little so why should we respect others.

We are Rome, we may not see it fall in our life times, but it will surely fall.

And it won't fall because of our enemies, it will fall from within.

I tend to agree with you. No superpower stays on top forever. The time will come when the United States is no longer number one. Probably not in any of our lifetimes, though.

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#31

06-04-2003, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by Sly_RJ
Mr. Fiction... couple months ago I remember seeing people ripping up posters, flags, and statues in Iraq. Hmm...

Yep that represented a government that no longer exists.

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#32

06-04-2003, 10:45 AM

Just a question...

I thought burning was the only way to destroy a tattered flag, since they aren't supposed to touch the ground?

" My flag is old and ready to be retired. What should I do?

Section 8k of the Flag Code (see below) states, "The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning." We recommend that you contact your local VFW Chapter and ask them for help properly disposing of your flag. And be sure to consider providing a small donation to them for their assistance. Or you can contact your local Elks Lodge (who created the idea of Flag Day, established officially by President Truman, himself a member of the Elks) or the American Legion. Some Boy Scout and Girl Scout troups also can provide this service."

Also interesting:

" Is it okay to have a flag t-shirt with words written on it?

No, the flag should never be worn and no, the flag should never have marks or words written upon it. Section 8d (see below): "The flag should never be used as wearing apparel." Section 8g: "The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.""

"s it okay for an advertisement to use the flag? No. Section 8i (see below) reads, "The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever.""

These are from This flag site

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#33

06-04-2003, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

Yep that represented a government that no longer exists.

All due to burning a flag, no doubt.

So why didn't I see anyone complaining about those flags burning?

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#34

06-04-2003, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

Burning a flag isn't free speech?

no

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

Is a painting free speech?

no

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

Is a song free speech?

yes

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

Is ripping up a picture of someone free speech?

no

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

The Internet is not mentioned in the constitution, does that mean that no one has a right to free speech on the Internet?

that one's more complicated that say.., writing a book, but generally speaking, yes.

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

You either believe in free speech or you don't. Apparently, you don't.

I do.... but I don't agree with your hippie ass definitions of what is 'free speech'. Your need to "express yourself" in ways that the creators of the constitution never envisioned is not my problem. It's yours.

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#35

06-04-2003, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head

don't need to.... the fact that it isn't specifically guaranteed in there allows for my elected officials to make as many damn laws banning it as they deem necessary. The constitution doesn't specifically point out all the rights you DON'T have.... only the one's you have.

Sorry. You lose.

when our government was first thomas jefferson believe that no government should ever have the power to impose moral law over it's people. believe me, i respect the flag and the people that have fought and died to protect it. and i love this country, but i love this country because you're allowed to have your own beliefs. it's like saying that because the 10th amendment didn't garuntee the right to homosexuality, that they could make a law against it?

Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war.
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#36

06-04-2003, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by Sly_RJ

All due to burning a flag, no doubt.

So why didn't I see anyone complaining about those flags burning?

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#37

06-04-2003, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by Sly_RJ
Mr. Fiction... couple months ago I remember seeing people ripping up posters, flags, and statues in Iraq. Hmm...

what does that have to do with anything?

You're comparing the US Constitution to a third world country that just lost a war and overthrew a dictator?

enlighten me....

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#38

06-04-2003, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

Can't read can you?

Show me where I didn't say it wasn't.

I have stated twice in this thread I agree with the whole free speech aspect on this issue.

But it still does not negate the fact that this country is imploding from within.

It does not negate the fact that we are bunch of disenfranchised consumers who know nothing about our neighbor so could care less about them.

It does not negate the fact that civility is all but lost on our streets.

It does not negate the fact that we respect ourselves so little so why should we respect others.

We are Rome, we may not see it fall in our life times, but it will surely fall.

And it won't fall because of our enemies, it will fall from within.

mmmh feisty!

the first part of my message was in reponse to yours...

THe other parts was in response to the thread....

Last edited by xxxdesign-net; 06-04-2003, 10:52 AM.
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#39

06-04-2003, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by xxxdesign-net

mmmh feisty!

the first part of my message was in reponse to yours...

THe other parts was in response to the thread....

LOL sorry

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#40

06-04-2003, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head

what does that have to do with anything?

You're comparing the US Constitution to a third world country that just lost a war and overthrew a dictator?

enlighten me....

Posters, flags, statues are symbols of a country. You just stated so. Has nothing to do with having a Constitution. By destroying posters, flags, and statues (that are symbols and represent a country) you're also spitting on the people that have fought for that country and stood up for your beliefs.

So, is it only wrong for people to burn their flags simply because we have a Constitution? That's ridiculous.

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#41

06-04-2003, 10:54 AM

Republicans tend to respect the flag as a symbol, and they have absolutely no respect for the principles that symbol embodies, such as free speech and the right to protest.

Amp I thought you were smarter than Henry Hyde.
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#42

06-04-2003, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by Sly_RJ

Posters, flags, statues are symbols of a country. You just stated so. Has nothing to do with having a Constitution. By destroying posters, flags, and statues (that are symbols and represent a country) you're also spitting on the people that have fought for that country and stood up for your beliefs.

So, is it only wrong for people to burn their flags simply because we have a Constitution? That's ridiculous.

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Amputate Your Head

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#43

06-04-2003, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by Sly_RJ

Posters, flags, statues are symbols of a country. You just stated so. Has nothing to do with having a Constitution. By destroying posters, flags, and statues (that are symbols and represent a country) you're also spitting on the people that have fought for that country and stood up for your beliefs.

So, is it only wrong for people to burn their flags simply because we have a Constitution? That's ridiculous.

"spitting on the people that have fought for that country and stood up for your beliefs"?

dude, we were killing them and throwing them the fuck out of that country. A little spit was the least of their worries, and at that point, truly moot.

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Amputate Your Head

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#44

06-04-2003, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by dig420
Republicans tend to respect the flag as a symbol, and they have absolutely no respect for the principles that symbol embodies, such as free speech and the right to protest.

Amp I thought you were smarter than Henry Hyde.

What never fails to amaze me is how people of your thinking seem to never see the stupidity in fighting for the right to burn the very fucking symbol that represents your right to protest the thing that's giving those rights to begin with. It's fucking ludicrous.

Typical hippie mindset.

But again.... do whatever you want man.... go burn your flags. In fact, if you really wanna make a statement, go to Sturgis in August and stand in the middle of the street and burn your flag.

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#45

06-04-2003, 11:11 AM

I don't want to burn flags. I want to have the RIGHT to burn flags if I choose to do so.

I also want to have the right to burn a picture of Ronald Reagan if I choose to do so. I want to have the right to say my government is wrong. I want to have the right to read books that the government doesn't like.

There is NO DIFFERENCE between outlawing the burning of a piece of cloth because of it's symbolic content and outlawing a book because of it's symbolic content (1984). It's a very small step from making desecrating a flag illegal to making public dissent illegal. oh but OF COURSE only us hippies have anything to fear right? THe government would NEVER do anything to bother right thinking mericans such as yourself. (Patriot Act, Tips, those are all aimed at hippies and muslims, they'd NEVER tap anyone else's phone)

There's no difference between banning flag-burning for it's disrespectful nature and throwing Rage Against the Machine in jail for their disrepectful music. It's a slippery slope, if you give them an inch they'll take a mile.
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#46

06-04-2003, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head
What never fails to amaze me is how people of your thinking seem to never see the stupidity in fighting for the right to burn the very fucking symbol that represents your right to protest the thing that's giving those rights to begin with. It's fucking ludicrous.

Typical hippie mindset.

what never fails to amaze me is how people of YOUR mindset never seem to see the stupidity in outlawing burning a FUCKING SYMBOL. It's a rag, a piece of fucking cloth. What counts are the principles that flag embodies - the right to complain against your government, the right to FREE SPEECH, the right to protest and to elect your chosen representatives. Outlawing the burning of the flag is a far greater desecration of that flag than burning it.
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#47

06-04-2003, 11:17 AM

Great... not only do I have to agree with Mr. Fiction, but also dig. The world is ending...

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#48

06-04-2003, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by Sly_RJ
Great... not only do I have to agree with Mr. Fiction, but also dig. The world is ending...

I don't even know who you are except you run a links list and you post a lot. Agreeing with me more might be a good idea for you.
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#49

06-04-2003, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by dig420
I don't want to burn flags. I want to have the RIGHT to burn flags if I choose to do so.

so burn a few.... I'm sure if you warm yourself by a nice fireplace fueled with US flags at your home, the flag burning police are not going to come and cart you off. The problems start when the hippie crackheads feel they need to make some sort of "statement" by standing on the White House lawn burning flags to show how stupid they are.

but hey.... you're free to burn away in the comfort of your own home... I'm reasonably sure you won't be arrested.

After all, that's what you said you wanted right? You want to be able to burn one of you so choose....? Well burn away....

oh wait.... that's no good because then no one will SEE you burning it. That's the whole point isn't it.... to be SEEN burning it in your act of defiance and disrespect. Burning it at home doesn't help.... you want the right to burn it in Times Square.

Originally posted by dig420

I also want to have the right to burn a picture of Ronald Reagan if I choose to do so. I want to have the right to say my government is wrong. I want to have the right to read books that the government doesn't like.

There is NO DIFFERENCE between outlawing the burning of a piece of cloth because of it's symbolic content and outlawing a book because of it's symbolic content (1984).

It's a very small step from making desecrating a flag illegal to making public dissent illegal. oh but OF COURSE only us hippies have anything to fear right? THe government would NEVER do anything to bother right thinking mericans such as yourself. (Patriot Act, Tips, those are all aimed at hippies and muslims, they'd NEVER tap anyone else's phone)

There's no difference between banning flag-burning for it's disrespectful nature and throwing Rage Against the Machine in jail for their disrepectful music. It's a slippery slope, if you give them an inch they'll take a mile.

your point is noted.... but not everything is a slippery slope. People are too damn paranoid.

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#50

06-04-2003, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head

your point is noted.... but not everything is a slippery slope. People are too damn paranoid.

when it comes to governmental power, EVERYTHING is a slippery slope. Any law on the books can be used against you.

Ever hear of the forfeiture laws?

the only thing you can count on besides death and taxes is that any power you give the govt will be abused.
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