Sponsor Shaving - Age old discussion worth having again
 

You have 2 sponsors. You are sending basically the same traffic in the same niche, quantity and quality to each sponsor.

The first sponsor converts well and you are making $x,xxx.xx dollars a month on a consistent basis.

The second sponsor doesn't convert well and you are making $xx.xx dollars a month.

It is revealed that Sponsor 1 is cheating. They are doing a 20% shave on payout.

Sponsor 2 is rock solid and the most honest sponsors in the adult space. They are the type that would go out of business before they would lie to you or shave their affiliates.

So, what are you going to do?

Are you, on principal, going to stop sending to sponsor 1 because they are shaving and start sending all traffic to sponsor 2?

Or are you going to continue to send traffic to where you are making the most for it?

Discuss.

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Hate to say it but I'd send it wherever it makes the most money, provided I was getting paid weekly.

Send traffic to the sites that make the most money and grow up.

Of course (almost) everyone would send their traffic to the first sponsor. The money is all that matters at the end.

Affiliate programs that falsify stats deserve hacking.

If you're looking to invest any serious efforts going forward then it's a no-brainer for me, that is if the variables remain the same in the future, sponsor 2 all day long.

it's not regulated market, affiliates are located worldwide and can't do shit, $100 here, $1000 there and programs get away with it.

just stick with who makes you more money.

I remember when we would vilify a sponsor that shaved around here.... now the mass census is to send money to the cheaters and grow up over helping the virtuous program grow.

Probably the main reason I have 95% phased out.

no brainer... send to the highest epc. If at some point the shaver falls below the other epc, switch up.

I don't actually think there are too many programs that shave these days (though am certainly not naive enough to think none do), but if they skim and I still get more epc than anywhere else, that's where my traffic is going

If sponsor one was found to be dishonest I wouldn't want to work with them, whether I was being negatively impacted by the unethical actions or not. shady ish has no place in my life

I'd drop option one and start testing new options to replace it. would stick with option 2 during the transition. if I liked and believed in the site I'd prob tweak things to see if there was anything I could do to raise sales on my end of things

Point the hackers to every adult dating company.

how do you know that sponsor #2 isn't even more dishonest than sponsor #1?

Best sentence EVER

You lost me after this... 'basically the same traffic'? That is pretty open ended. Same niche? unless its the same content that doesn't matter, some peoples content are better than others, some tours as well. No sites are the same, no tours are the same. conversions will never be the same for any two sites ever. For the most part? people don't have enough traffic or sales to gather sufficient data to even determine this with any degree of accuracy anyway. Or if they do it would take a few months of sales data to determine with any confidence.

Basic rule of thumb? If your traffic converts better for one program/site than another? stick with it. It's not because one is shaving, its because one converts better with YOUR traffic and sales practices. Run with it.

Start your own program and then you will have first count on the money.

The premise is that you know it, doesn't really matter how you know it. The premise is that you know program 2 is honest as they come and you know for sure that program 1 is shaving 20%.

You know it because that is how premises work ;p


Same traffic, you are running an A/B split at the source so all traffic is coming from the exact same place.

Please see my comments above regarding "premise".

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No making up new choices dammit.

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Internet affiliates have no direct contact with the customers' acquisition and lifetime spend e.g.; Affiliates don't get the customer to sign on the dotted line and take the deal back to the office. Affiliates do not process the payment transactions. In a word, most of this shaving stuff is supposition.

Trust is a factor and you have to go where the money comes in. There is nothing anyone can say that will appease the doubts really. The other problem is that unless you make a large number of sales every day your selling pattern will run in streaks -- regardless of what you are selling -- this is a reality of sales.

Excellent idea :2 cents::thumbsup

i don't think aff program do that, i'm so innocent ?

This :thumbsup

Trust is probably the biggest factor when it comes down to it. Affiliates do not have access to see what is really happening behind the curtain so at some point they are trusting that the sponsor is treating them properly.

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yes..............

And that is what killed the industry

Nothing against you personally OneHungLo it's a particular capitalist mindset that is akin to slash & burn deforestation or to one eating their feet because they can't wait for dinner.

Release the Kraken!!!

http://www.qhdu.com/Kraken.jpg

You know how many clicks you sent, you know how much money you were paid per click. You know the cost of each campaign. Do the math. It really is that simple.

If someone shaves 2/3rds of your sales and still manages to pay you 43 cents per click overall anyway, while someone who is completely honest shaves nothing and pays you 6 cents a click... send your traffic to the one paying you 43 cents.

100% correct. Unique content producers like me with sites are rare because affiliates build up the scammers for quick profits, even when they know they're being shaved, or will be ripped off by the scammer sponsor in the end.

Affiliates even promote stolen content sites for quick profit, strangling industry growth further.

Incidentally... anyone who was sending to a very high paying offer and wont send to it anymore because you believe its possible that very high payout is after a few sales were shaved... please send me the name of the sponsor so I can replace your traffic in their inventory.

with all due respect you're replacing sarettah's scenario with your own here. his opening post had to do with proof of unethical action, acting in a deceitful manner incongruent with the promise made/terms presented to to affiliates when they joined the program

not drama llama supposition as to 'shave'

I figured you'd weigh in here as it's clear from past threads this is a topic about which you have passionate opinions. which is cool, the metrics you bring to the topic are super-helpful when parsing value amongst sponsors


genuinely curious as to your thought process in posing the following:

you run a service which has as one of its standards of inclusion:

"The product or service must be provided in useful, complete and working condition up to the quality standards promised as part of the tour, sales pitch or marketing materials."

meaning honesty in biz practice and not fucking around with people. following through on terms presented.

why should affs or anyone else on the b2b side of things expect or tolerate a different, lower standard?

genuine bafflement without a point to prove as aff stuff is small portion of my overall income so don't have a significant stake in the debate.

just don't understand why anyone would want to associate with peeps comfortable with dishonest practice just cuz they make you money. like they'd be any less likely to fuck over you massively if they could rationalize it? or their website clients?

Angelou stated it best: "When someone shows you who they are believe them; the first time"

enjoying reading everyone's POV's, do honestly see some merit in each perspective. just for the bottom-line-above-all'ers don yo flea collars =)

Jesse,

In business like anything else you must make decisions based on the information you have available to you. As an affiliate you do have direct access to some information, and you will never have access to other information. Fortunately, the information you need is the information you do have. Affiliate marketing is an auction and always has been. Sponsors compete for your traffic by making offers. Novices, hobbyists and idiots compare the offers. People who make a living in this business ignore the offers almost entirely and compare the results instead.

When someone offers you a set of terms... that's what they say they will do. When they offer you up to a certain amount per sale, that's what they say they will pay. However you will never know if they will actually pay you when the bill comes due, and you can never know if they shaved your sales or did some other thing outside your POV that is negative.

On the other hand, here is what you do know..... you know if they paid you the last time. You know exactly how much they paid you. You know exactly how much traffic you sent to them. You know if your traffic got fucked (because you should be doing test joins and cancels etc on your own). You know what the campaign cost you to run because you should be tracking your own expenses. You know how quickly the payment arrived. You know what other offers are out there competing with this one.

Based on that information, if a sponsor isn't damaging your brand or your traffic, and is paying you quickly every time and is paying you the most... the rest of the analysis boils down to conspiracy theories, guesses, rumors, and sour grapes. If you don't like the business model, that's great... neither did I... so like many others I decided to launch my own sites. That's always an option. You can also do your own due diligence and make whatever ethics based decisions you want.... but at the end of the day, you will still be dealing with the information you do have... and the information you don't have.

Decisions based on Net EPC are the best ones you can make based on the information you do have available as an affiliate. That has always been true, and will remain true. :2 cents:

Excellent thread starter Sarettah. :2 cents: :thumbsup

:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

correct. that's so basic I'm not sure why it would need stating?


this is where I think there's a disconnect between the thread topic and your posts in it. you're presenting a position you've argued before; that it's useless to engage in supposition in determining the value of a given sponsor. I agree with you on that

that's not the scenario presented in sarettah's op though. he's referring to a hypothetical situation wherein one discovers that a company with which one shares a lucrative relationship has been proven to be knowingly engaging in dishonest behavior aka unethical practice.

thus the question (as I see it, anyways) involves an additional factor not found in the scenario you often present. from where I'm standing your answers thus far address a different question based on a different set of facts.

the additional factor here is not just whether one currently earn the most per click with said sponsor in a haze of gossip, but whether one chooses to continue to work with people who have been proven to engage in shady ish.

I was curious as to your stance on that. that's all.

anyways, interesting topic

I'll chime in here because I see an alternative thrown around about starting your own sites.

If you are looking to start your own program, HIT ME UP! I'll get you into NATS!

Carry on... :thumbsup

Anyone ever see a sponsor try to blackhat their affiliates?

Well sarettah , you know what I'd do ;)

you've seen it :)

There is only one stat that matters....... = $$$$$$$$$

:)

Now stop trolling me ;)