Internet porn in France
 

You rarely see French WM's floating around (which probably pleases many here) so is there some kind of law in France preventing it? I know they've cracked down of videos with heavy taxation but is running sites from France illegal or restricted?

French are too busy desecrating graves and vandalizing synagogues to be posting nudie pix to TGPs.

French have buried themselves, their future is past.

I think it has to do with the fact, most french people are to stupid to make money on the net....

In France, it's all about dialers instead of creditcards. You don't see many French webmasters on here because most focus on the French market, where money is easier and competition is less fierce.

Wow. I'm glad you are arrogant enough to view your competition in that way.

If you want to use logic, it'd be quite easy to answer your question. French webmasters would likely be on a French webmaster board if they didn't know English.

Cheers,
Matt

Not really no. Go to any adult WM board and check out the very high % of people who have English as a second language and still post, especially dutch. Many French have a good grasp of English but they don't show up on boards so there must be another reason. Even the dialler thing would only partly explain it as there's no reason the wouldn't/couldn't also run English language sites if their skills in it are good enough.

Why would they spend time and money on running English language sites that bring less profits than their French language sites?

There is a couple webmaster Boad for french webmaster only like bizadulte.com and webxfrance.org/ and there is a couple french TGP to post and Frensh AVS like adulteid.com..

Why not? WM's from most other European countries do and they are in the same situation. Credit cards are also now far more widespread throughout Europe than those living outside of it often seem to think.

The obvious answer is simply the non-French market is MUCH larger so why not hit both if you have the ability? Again, like I say it doesn't seem to stop germans (even with the laws they have about it), Dutch, Spanish and many others from popping up. However, I've yet to bump into many French doing this.

Even then the dialler argument makes little sense. That would maybe limit the sites they build but would be no reason to stop them coming onto boards for the odd chat or bit of info from the wider 'non-french' market. This is a global business no matter what country/language you target most and many elements (purchasing content for example) aren't particularly limited to one country.

Here you go, idiot:

http://www.hautdebitx.com/soft_dynamique.asp?site=10


BTW, eveything is allowed in France with the exception of CP.

Beastiality, ws, fisting, caviar and so on...

Porm was not invented by tthe mighty US as you may want to beleive, after all it was called "French Postcards"....

really, GFY

:321GFY

Guess there must be quite a few French doing this then. Just odd that they never seem to pop up on English speaking boards whereas just about every other nationality does. Thanks though. That sort of answers the original question :)

behind germany and the UK, i'd have to say that the french are my biggest foreign customers....I LOVE THE FRENCH

Actually, IMO, it was Hugh Hefner who "invented" porn. He created Playboy, which therefore polished up the foundation of what is now the adult industry.l

Are you fucking kidding?????

What about B&W old 1920 movies... That was Hefner also???

He started his career at minus 10 years old....

Now you wonder why the french webmasters don't come here? Because of you obvious stupidity...

:helpme

What a strange notion.

With that logic, all niche site webmasters should go into mainstream. After all, the mainstream market is much larger than any of the niches, right?
There are French webmasters that do English language sites (e.g. http://www.xnxx.com/ ), but most don't simply because they have access to a market more familiar than them, which is less competitive and very profitable.

Also, for your information, I am European, and run European websites. You don't seem to get the dialer argument - dialers make WAY more money than memberships. $20 a month recurring or $40 an hour, you choose what you want to get...

Why do you say that? Enlighten me. :winkwink:

Again you totally failed to read the posts and totally missed the argument. The question was that the French market is little different from much of the rest of Europe and you see WM's from other countries running English sites and more importantly posting on English language boards. I was curious why the French specifically don't.

And again there is no reason to not run both French/European/Whatever dialler sites and English language CC sites. BOTH markets can make good money so why limit yourself? There are a LOT of European WM's who successfully do both myself included. To say I don't get the dialler argument just shows your total inability to read and understand very basic posts in English.

WTF though. This was never started to get into a pissing match with those a little simple and the original question was more or less answered so I'll leave it at that.

Any others? I don't speak french but I love my Freedom porn.

Apparently you still don't get it. Yes, both markets can make good money. So can selling used cars. Or running a grocery store. Or programming for microsoft. However, that does not mean it would be efficient to do all of those things, now would it?
If you were in a very profitable niche, would you leave that niche just because money can also be made in other niches? Even though those niches take more work and bring in less money, and you could just as well spend that time in your current niche and make more money?

If you take a quick look at the different European countries, it shouldn't be really hard to see why French webmasters mostly stick to French sites while German and Dutch webmasters aim for the international market. Germany has very strict porn laws, Holland is very small and most of the people there speak English quite well.
France, however, does not have very strict porn laws, does have a large population, most of the people there either don't speak English or speak it very badly, and on top of that, in France dialers are the porn payment option of choice.

Now, if you STILL don't get it, I don't think you ever will.

Hmm... I could have answered your question slightly easier: Idiot.

I believe that France has a 60% tax on adult related businesses and that is why there are less French webmasters.

walk at night on paris streets and you will see more porn action then anywhere.

Those few french webmasters sure are productive then...
http://www.google.com/search?lr=lang...UTF-8&safe=off

False. They have in France a " Value Added Tax " (VAT) that varies on the type on goods purchased. So luxury item ( read non-necessary ...) are taxed at the higher rate which is around 28%, far from your 60%.

It is not because you don't know of French Porn that it doesn't exist and strongly .

What hey don't have is all those free fucking TGP all over the place like with the US webmasters.... So you see less of the free stuff, they charge to view... and yes dialers are popular.

I am based in Europe and your statement is absolutely and totally incorrect. All of Europe has VAT and this has nothing to do with the income tax which I mentioned in my earlier post.

I do business with the major players in France, producers ( Concorde, Dorcel ) , broadcasters ( Canal Plus ) and sex shop operators ( mainly retired porn male stars ). I asked a few times if they had " special taxes". The answer was no, just the VAT.

It is very hard to supply a link to a site that would say that it doesn't have a special tax ( would require millions os sites denying rumors...), but it should be easy for you to post a link where it confirms the existence of that tax.

Taxes are not rumors, they are based on laws and decrees that are published.

Otherwise, I can say that in Pakistan there is a tax of 90% on BinLaden posters...

:Graucho

They are too busy surrendering to do porn.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...810471,00.html

Dont talk about things you know absolutely nothing about...

I thought the french spoke english, german etc etc and several others. you never know who is going to invade them next.
Maybe the should start speaking NewZealandish because I hear there is an army of sheep headed their way.

frightening.

they have tabatha cash :thumbsup

I'm a french webmaster and there are too much taxes. That's why big french webmasters like thierry from mmm100.com went to spanish. Anyway, Dialer works great but CC too.

In France, pupils have 2 times more school hours than in England Germany... so... yes they speak english, deutsch...

Perhaps they were not the major players you thought then?

But TV and such is mainly in French, even American movies. That's something that makes a huge difference. Most of the French people I know (university students) speak English rather badly.

Read carefully ( from your link: first paragraph):



This proposed law was not passed. The tax is the 33% VAT. They have a surtax on their net profits of 33%.

We have here various ' surtaxes " on different type of commercial activities, as much as " rebates" on others...
But needless to say, net profits are near non-existent in the porn business, at least officially.

We are saying roughly the same thing, but not the same way.
:thumbsup

Do you consider "VMD - Dorcel" a minor player. Shoots one movie with budgets of $200,000.00 equivalent to 10-15 american movies... Distributed worldwide, including in the USA, and played on Satellite and pay-per-view across Europe and some in the US.

http://www.dorcel.com
http://www.dorcelvision.com

Concorde has the biggest " hyper-store " in Paris suburbs, and supplys with his productions most EU countries. He also is the major buyer for American productions.

http://www.concorde.fr

Search the news links on tax that go a little deeper and you will find why all the French webmasters moved out of France.

BTW, we dont pay VAT on online subscriptions.

Tipsy,

There actually are a LOT of French webmasters, after German and English speaking webmasters the French section on http://www.europeanwebmasters.com actually receives the most traffic proportionatly.

As far as laws go, to my knowledge there are no laws pertaining to being an adult webmaster in France however, as you rightly pointed out, the new taxation class for imported videos is being implemented (if it hasnt already) although, this taxation will only affect those adult webmasters selling tangiable goods through a storefront.

Punkworld,

That is simply not true, in fact, it is estimated that only 17% of French citizens DO NOT own a credit or debit card compared to the 21% of the US based market. The problem that the French do have however is that they have been used to dilaers for so long they are not as abhorent at pulling the CC out as they should be.

However, my business model has taught me that they can and, will use their credit card should you not offer them a dialer as a billing solution first.

Tipsy,

You are quite correct about the high %age of webmasters with English as their second language and, from what i can gather, the foreign webmasters i have spoken to seem less likely than their English speaking counterparts to post on message boards. That's not to say that they do not visit them because they do.

As far as your comment about French/Foreign webmasters running non French language websites go, its pretty much the same argument as why many English speaking webmasters dont run foreign sites, they still havent got the idea that the internet is a global entity and doesnt end on the borders of their own country.

Punkworld,

Thats simply not a true statement.

As the current global climates rise in respect of internet usage we are beginning to see a trend of foreign sites entering the English dominated markets, thats why such companys as our own adult translations service can become helpful. The more foreign webmasters that start building site that there are the more likely hood we ourselves will need to embrace the foreign markets to get a fresh burst of traffic.

Look at it like this if you will, why would i send 100 English speaking surfers to the same paysite they have seen over and over again when, i could send 100 Foreign Language surfers to the same locally translated paysite which they havent seen before?

Tipsy,

Again you have hit the proverbial nail on the head.

As English speaking webmasters we have been told for so long that the only way to make any money from our foreign traffic is to send them to a dialer, whilst back in the mid-late nineties this was true we now have access to a variety of global billing methods ranging from SMS Billing to Euro Debit and Check Processing.

As English speaking webmasters we need to ensure that we are targeting the foreign markets even more than we are the English ones as these are the markets that are beginning to become the most affluent from a profit turning point of view online.

Also, as you mentioned, actually spending some time to learn about what your foreign traffic wants to see and target that traffic will pay off dividends just as it does with targeting our English speaking traffic.

The cultural differences throughout the global internet are much more varied than they are in America or England for example, most foreign countries view homosexuality as a sexual preference and many married straight men have male lovers that their wives know about.

In fact,t he only countries globally other than the backward arabic speaking countries that have a lesser view on homosexuality is America, everywhere else it is an accepted part of society.

Punkworld,

I would rather have the $20 a month recurring.

This is based on the fact that most foreign surfers, if you can market your site effectively WILL rebill in excess of three or four months.

What you have to realize, as i have already said, is that foreign porn surfers have been so used to getting hit by dialers that they think this is the only option open to them, we as webmasters need to start offering billing methods that will embrace the rapidly growing foreign markets (it is estimated that by the year 2005 the European market will be bigger than the domestic US market in respect of internet usage).

By offering our surfers multiple billing options in multiple currencys we are not only opening up our business to the global economy but are growing our businesses int he right direction.

Punkworld,

An excellent argument as to why English speaking webmasters NEED tp get their sites localized globally from translating them to offering multiple currencies.

If anyone would like to learn more about localization services or the foreign markets specifically feel free to head over to http://www.europeanwebmasters.com or, if you want to discuss human translation and billing of your existing sites you are more than welcomed to email me at [email protected]

Regards,

Lee

Just a quick jump back in to say nice post Lee. Never realised you were involved in translation and I may well take you up on that service in the not too distant future.

If anyone has more info and/or links on the tax situation from Internet porn earnings for France I would be VERY intrested and grateful for them.

What was my biggest mistake ::: I started with english and it took long time to discover markets like french, sweden etc... Yes french webmasters exists but most of them I know are sqeezing money out from french surfers. Why? Ask them what's the easiest & most profitable way. So, there´s quite little to share place like GFY if you are only working on very limited language area.

Now it's time to go to play & drink. I'm so fucking fucked today as usual.

I was referring, as my post showed obvioulsly, about videos & movies. I know you do not pay yet...

We didn't pay in Canada any taxes ( our version of VAT: GST) on online subscriptions, but they changed that a few months ago... could happen to you too... tough I wish it doesn't for your sake..

i use to post on webxfrance.org. Jusk ask admins to get more info about taxes. By the way, the advantage of France porn is that it is less saturated than us porn.

Tipsy,

We pretty much have our fingers ina bit of everything when it comes to the International markets from translations to billing solutions to plain old consulting services.

If anyone ever needs info on the foreign adult market then im always available to offer any help i can been working that online marketplace for the last 3 1/2 years hehe.

Regards,

Lee

European Lee, no offense, but what you are saying seems to consist of a lot of wishful thinking.

Yes, many Europeans (and French) have credit cards or debit cards. However, there are some factors you are forgetting. The European debit cards consist largely of ones using Maestro, not suitable for online payments. Besides that, many Europeans are not exactly eager to use their credit cards online, and prefer using dialers.
Now, nothing wrong with that - I know from experience that many "recur" if they like a site, that is, they come back quite often and spend a lot more money than creditcard users do.
Offering credit cards as an alternative is a good idea, but, at least for me, most of the money is made through dialers even then.

"Why would they spend time and money on running English language sites that bring less profits than their French language sites?" is not a statement, but a question. And whether or not it is valid, it does represent what many European webmasters ask themselves. They simply consider their own markets to be easier to work than the international market. In my experience, they are right. (did testing with multilingual sites, for me international/US traffic makes about a tenth of what european traffic makes)



Maybe I'm wrong, but much of what you are saying seems like en extensive plug for your services...


Oh, and:
I have no idea where you got such odd ideas about the rest of the world, but rest assured: most foreign countries have a fair share of homophobes as well. For instance, a Dutch phenomenon: "potenrammen". That is, stupid young men going out to beat up gay guys.
Although homosexuality may be officially accepted, culturally it most often isn't.

Now, straight married men having male lovers?? Maybe in certain swinger communities, but that most definitely is not something mainstream in Europe.

I've heard a rumor that selling adult material over phone lines is illegal in France but only occasionally enforced. This came up during a discussion about dialers, supposedly FranceTelecom will sometimes pay and sometimes not. It sounds a bit like a load of bull to me, but I really haven't investigated the matter.

Of course it does, bacause after three and a half years of constantly working the foreign markets i know shit about them :1orglaugh

You might want to head across to one f the largest online European ADULT billing processors and see EXACTLY what cards they process i would suggest heading to somewhere like http://www.2000charge.com ;)

Maestro, as you are no doubt aware is also referred to as 'Euro-Debit' in much the same way 'Visa Plus' is.

These types of payment card take the funds DIRECTLY out of the account of the card holder in the same way that 'Switch' A Natwest Bank Product (English Banking Corporation) does.

Having been born in England and lived there for oh i dont know 24 years, i think im pretty sure i know what types of cards i can and cant use online ;)

[quote]Besides that, many Europeans are not exactly eager to use their credit cards online, and prefer using dialers.[/b]

Which would explain why the German Government is trying to resrict use of or, maybe even ban dilaers, i guess the millions of complaints they had received each year from German dialer users had nothing to do with this. Yup, sounds like Dialers are preferred in Europe to me.

Not to mention the extortionate cost of monthly telephone bills in and around Europe.

in pretty much the same way that i dont know, say, even 1 year ago, nobody in the US was concerned with making money from their international traffic, my how the times have changed ;)

Keep an eye on what some of the large sponsors are going to be doing in the coming weeks/months.

Im pretty sure that they have more room to do 'testing' of sites before they get launched ;)


Your not gay are you :1orglaugh

You might wanna try it and actually do some travelling across Europe for a week or two :winkwink:

Regards,

Lee

You guys are all smartasses saying they not making money ... I don't know now but 1 year ago i used to make 100's a day just redirecting my french traffic to a french tgp with carpediem dialer . There they make huge $ with dialers . Anyways there are plenty of french tgps and shit and they make a shitload more $ . My friend from B2k made a porn0 and he was making about 50k's a month from 70k tgp traffic ...

Lee, I've been working on the European market for 5 years now, so no need to go boasting about your 3,5 years. :winkwink:

Besides that, 2000charge seem to screw up pretty badly, at least for my country, when you try to pay with a EU-debit card. The payment form for my language has a very odd mix of 3 languages, and everything that is in the right language is so screwed up that it isn't even funny anymore.
It looks worse than Japanese Engrish, with mistakes so big, obvious and idiotic that nobody would trust them with his bank info. (for the Dutch, an example can be found below - I wouldn't trust them, would you?)

I'm not gay, but I have lived in Europe all my life, have travelled across it numerous times and have visited just about every country in it extensively. I think I do have a clue as to European culture.