US Medical Care vs Canadian System
 

If you don't know what a PET scanner is it's a functional image scanner, it sees things CT and regular MRI scans can't and is mostly used in the diagnosis/treatment/research of cancer and brain disorders including dementia and psychiatric disorders.

I just did a little research. In the US state of Oregon there are 20 PET scanners for a population of 3.9 million people. In the Canadian province of British Columbia there are 2 for a population of 4.6 million. In Canada's largest population province of Ontario with 13.6 million people there are 13 PET scanners and they are only available to those who meet criteria the government has decided on.

In Oregon, roughly 15% of the population has no medical insurance.

Even more fun facts

Canadians can drive across the border and pay for a PET scan of course. If you're uninsured and sick in Oregon, well don't come here looking for treatment.

Here's the thing. There is World Class healthcare available for the right price in most countries. There are hospitals in Costa Rica, staffed by American trained doctors with all the latest equipment and literally have orderlies closer to bellhops that bring your meal on real silverware you order off the menu. The price is very reasonable too. My friend had to pay for his radiation therapy over the course of several days and the total bill was $1500 or so.

Some of the very best medical facilities are in the United States, for sure, but they're deeply mired in this private healthcare bullshit that makes it far and away the least efficient system in the World. The problem is further compounded by a litigious atmosphere and brutal tort laws. "My Doctor, even though he was doing his best, made a mistake and now I want $1,090,032,034,022 for my pain and suffering". Imagine if your system was reasonably efficient. Wouldn't that just produce even HIGHER quality of care?

If you're poor and have health problems you're better off in Canada, if you're middle class and your wife gets breast cancer you're better off in the US.

So in general you're happy paying far and away the most for healthcare of any nation World wide? You don't see any benefits for you, as an American, in having a more efficient healthcare system? You don't think that famous American ingenuity could produce even better results in a more efficient system?

who is to say that 20 scanners per 4 million is a correct supply of healthcare? The US system has abundant incentive to overspend. why do you think there are so many unnecessary tests, procedures, & endless drugs? everything in our system is incentivized to make more money by doing another test, selling another pill. more & more the system is financed by the taxpayer which is like a bottomless piggybank to wall street & Big Healthcare.

:2 cents:

Can you not get private healthcare in Canada?
My parents are from the UK, but both have private healthcare, I used to aswell. Came with my old job.

Use the National Health for doctors/A&E and private for anything else.

Is there a shortage of PET scanners in BC or does Oregon have too many, just so they can bill people for shit they may not need?

Is there need for more PET scanners is the question. Since US health care is known for its huge inefficiency.

*sigh* here we go again. This tiresome debate all over again.

All I'm going to say is this: over the past 2 years alone I've had treatments, appointments, scans, tests and x-rays that would have in total cost an uninsured US citizen roughly $300,000+ in medical costs. In a few more days I will be having another facet block intervention procedure, something that runs anywhere from $20k to $40k per treatment in the US. I will be having another MRI scan done on my lower back in the late fall as well, and by then I will be due for my next course of injections to my back.

The bill to me so far: $0.00. And the care has been exemplary.

My sister in law was diagnosed with cancer in her lower abdomen roughly ten years ago. She had all of her medical care done here in Canada and still does... what would have amounted to hundreds of thousands of dollars in bills in the US. She's alive and healthy today and has had $0 bills handed her. (St Boniface General Hospital in Winnipeg has an excellent cancer research and treatment facility, as does Vancouver where she is currently going for all of her ongoing followups)

Don't even get me started on how much medical care my mother has required in the past dozen years, including several lengthy hospital stays. Probably over a million bucks worth if she were an American. Again, $0.


Any Canadian griping about our healthcare is free to seek out other doctors in Canada, other specialists, go where the care is more to your liking, or else get your ass south of the border and pay through the nose. No one's holding a gun to anyone's head here.

$0. High quality care. Is it perfect? No, no system is. But from where I sit it's a whole lot better than the "Insurance System" they have going on down south.

Warchild's post --- spot on.

In America just say you have "no papers" and you heath care if free.

Sorry for prying into this thread. I have a question however. Let's say, you have no paid medical insurance at all (like me, for example). What will happen if you break an arm/leg etc, have an appendicitis, intestinal infection or so? What if your wife is pregnant and is going to give birth? Let's consider you called for an ambulance to deliver you/your wife to the hospital for an x-ray or tomography check, surgery, childbirth (for your wife) etc. Will you have to pay for that? If yes, how much?

Thanks a lot for you answer.

P.S. Asking this question because in my country it's all 100% free (the ambulance, the surgery, the essential meds etc). Yes, we also pay taxes (6% or even 13% from what we gain), but we don't pay for the essential medicine service here. Even the basic dental medicine (say you need to treat caries or remove a dead tooth) is available for free.

If you have no insurance a hospital will still treat you. Depending on what your issues is can determine how much help you get. For example, if you have a broken arm or need an emergency surgery for your appendix they will fix that problem so you can get better. They will then bill you. If you don't pay they may take legal action against you. I'm not sure how that would work if you are from a different country and are visiting here.

Now, if you have ongoing issues they may or may not treat you. Say for example you have some kind of injury that requires physical therapy. The hospital may determine that your financial situation is such that they will treat you for free and write it off. If you have cancer they may choose not to treat you and require you to pay for you chemo or other treatments in advance. It really is a case by case basis.

How much? Say for the ambulance transfer, appendix surgery and the hospital stay + meds?

I see, but actually it sounds really scare. Especially about the cancer. In my country everybody will get a free treatment in case of cancer, HIV or any other potential fatal disease. Course that will be not the best meds, but at least they will be the essential ones. So does it mean that in your country a person with a cancer, hepatitis or HIV will left to die if he/she has no paid insurance money for the meds?

For example, my father is a former boxer, so he has a Parkinson's disease, and ye is receiving all the meds for free. Even his wheelchair is free because he is disabled.

It's not necessarily that Canada don't have money for PET scanners, it's that PET scanners are likely to make the Cancer worse. The fact that the US has more is a sign that the US is more corrupt; Cancer is an industry. :2 cents:

Patrick Quillin, Ph.D., R.D., C.N.S., is director of nutrition for Cancer Treatment Centers of America in Tulsa, Okla., and author of Beating Cancer With Nutrition (Nutrition Times Press, 1998).

"The medical establishment may be missing the connection between sugar and its role in tumorigenesis. Consider the million-dollar positive emission tomography device, or PET scan, regarded as one of the ultimate cancer-detection tools. PET scans use radioactively labeled glucose to detect sugar-hungry tumor cells. PET scans are used to plot the progress of cancer patients and to assess whether present protocols are effective.18

In Europe, the "sugar feeds cancer" concept is so well accepted that oncologists, or cancer doctors, use the Systemic Cancer Multistep Therapy (SCMT) protocol. Conceived by Manfred von Ardenne in Germany in 1965, SCMT entails injecting patients with glucose to increase blood-glucose concentrations. This lowers pH values in cancer tissues via lactic acid formation. In turn, this intensifies the thermal sensitivity of the malignant tumors and also induces rapid growth of the cancer. Patients are then given whole-body hyperthermia (42 C core temperature) to further stress the cancer cells, followed by chemotherapy or radiation.19 SCMT was tested on 103 patients with metastasized cancer or recurrent primary tumors in a clinical phase-I study at the Von Ardenne Institute of Applied Medical Research in Dresden, Germany. Five-year survival rates in SCMT-treated patients increased by 25 to 50 percent, and the complete rate of tumor regression increased by 30 to 50 percent.20 The protocol induces rapid growth of the cancer, then treats the tumor with toxic therapies for a dramatic improvement in outcome.

The irrefutable role of glucose in the growth and metastasis of cancer cells can enhance many therapies. Some of these include diets designed with the glycemic index in mind to regulate increases in blood glucose, hence selectively starving the cancer cells; low-glucose TPN solutions; avocado extract to inhibit glucose uptake in cancer cells; hydrazine sulfate to inhibit gluconeogenesis in cancer cells; and SCMT.

A female patient in her 50s, with lung cancer, came to our clinic, having been given a death sentence by her Florida oncologist. She was cooperative and understood the connection between nutrition and cancer. She changed her diet considerably, leaving out 90 percent of the sugar she used to eat. She found that wheat bread and oat cereal now had their own wild sweetness, even without added sugar. With appropriately restrained medical therapy -- including high-dose radiation targeted to tumor sites and fractionated chemotherapy, a technique that distributes the normal one large weekly chemo dose into a 60-hour infusion lasting days -- a good attitude and an optimal nutrition program, she beat her terminal lung cancer. I saw her the other day, five years later and still disease-free, probably looking better than the doctor who told her there was no hope."

$14,000 for what exactly? For an x-ray and gypsum? Is that for real? Shouldn't the country provide it for free to their own citizens? I'm not trolling or something like that, because in my country it's 100% free. Fake boobs, lips, liposuction, porcelain teeth etc will cost you a money (perhaps a lot of money). But a broken arm? WFT?

You are so so so right about how it should be, but Barry is right about how it actually is in the USA.

When I broke my ankle, I just waited until the next day when I could get a doctor office appointment. So I could avoid the hospital costs. Some breaks are worse than others to do this for though.

At least a few thousand dollars. My niece broke her leg a few years ago. My brother took her to the hospital in his car so there was no ambulance ride. She had to have the bone reset then got a cast. Total is was about $4,000. You can assume at least another $1,000+ if you had to go in an ambulance.

She was covered under his insurance so most of it was paid for by that, but it is still a crazy high price for spending a few hours in the hospital.



It depends. Most states have some kind of a welfare style health insurance. If you are very poor or disabled you can get it and be covered. If you are disabled you can also get federal disability which normally gives you some money and some health insurance.

The people that end up screwed are the ones that have too much money to be considered for the poor/welfare insurance, but not enough to pay for their meds or treatment. There are a lot of charity organizations that can help as well, but there are people who end up dying or getting worse because they can't afford it.

One of the problems is how long it takes to get any kind of government help. Several years ago my mom got very sick. Her doctors says she would qualify for disability. We applied for regular disability and "emergency" help which wouldn't be much money, but would arrive quickly. The "emergency" help took 9 months to kick in.

It is sad that our system is such that a person has to make that kind of decision and chooses to wait an extra day and live with that pain while potentially having the injury get worse to save some money.

So many millions of people in the US get worse healthcare then Russians. Not surprised there but what the hell

I surely agree.

the two scanners at the BC cancer Agency are in use non stop, so it would be interesting to see the volume they do vs the 20 in oregon...

You're a grown adult and you really think you are getting hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical treatment for $0 aka FREE? If you are that means you aren't paying taxes.

The Canadian system is rationed healthcare, it has to be, there's a budget for healthcare imposed on it by the government, and the reason you are getting good treatment is that budget is huge and funded by huge taxes.

I have no problem with the Canadian system other than its prohibition on private hospitals. With the vast majority of Canadians living close to large American cities there should be the option where you can go to the US for treatment and get reimbursed for the amount the Canadian system would spend on that treatment. Ontario had HORRIBLE wait times for cancer treatment, still does but it's improving but when your life is on the line you should be able to get treatment. A friend of my dad's needed heart bypass surgery, waiting list at the time was 6 months, he died of a heart attack long before his surgery date.

I became aware of the BC PET scanner situation just reading some forum not even health related, a woman with cancer, I think breast needed/wanted a PET scan - she had to go to California, when she talked to the doctors there and told them her province had just 2 scanners they were stunned. I'm not an oncologist, I don't know how important PET scanners are, from my quick reading the PET scanner is a big help in early detection and can see metastases long before other tests/scans.

Wow, if that doesn't prove the system is broken, I don't know what ever would or could.

I really hope your ankle is fine now :2 cents:

In all honesty thats what it should have been but that would put private health insurance out of business....The USA is the last country on earth where they make big money, and all of that is going to go away, mark my words.

Yes they have a huge lobby but The ACA is simply the first step on the road to Universal care.

One of my wants was a private insurance that would be much more affordable but if I needed any kind of surgery I would have been able to do it in Thailand or some other place with excellent hospitals and western trained doctors that charge 10% or even less of what it would cost to get it done here.

For what my insurance paid for out patient sinus surgery a few years ago they could have flown me to Thailand, had the surgery done at Bumrungrad hospital in bangkok put me up for a week with a private nurse at a nice hotel and saved 50%.

amercians do not understand healtcare they did not grow up in a free country with free healtcare and we are being mean to them...like north koreans will defend their supreme leader no matter what, americans will defend their 800$ aspirin...

its mean to mock blind people like it is mean to mock americans for healthcare...

Every citizen of Spain is entitled to free healthcare, but doesn't cover everything. However if you are paying social security, you get more stuff for free.
Even illegals get min healthcare.

They have started charging everyone for meds though, which is a good idea. You had oldies going to the doctors, just cause they were bored, getting meds they didnt need and sticking them in a drawer. Now they have to pay for them (only 10% of cost) but enough for them to stop getting $100's of meds they didn't need.

But the costs for non resident aren't bad. Before I was registered here, I broke some ribs.
Doctors/Xrays were about $70.

I'm a firm believer that sugars feed tumours myself, but the amount in a test like that is literally negligible and wouldn't be enough to matter, you'd probably get more sugar in you eating a carrot in other words.

if anything ct scans, or having a fair amount of them is far more of a risk. They seem to use those for everything these days and i'm pretty sure they give off a lot more radiation than an x-ray would.

Any EU citizen is entitled to free healthcare ( or very reduced cost) in any EU country regarding if he lives there or not. I went to hospital in Czech (even before they were in EU) Spain and Sweden and never paid nothing.

Just get one of this cards

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europea...Insurance_Card

Only country I avoid public Hospitals in EU is Cyprus they are third world country better pay for private.

The US medical system creates up 99% of all innovation in medicine. The rest of the world (especially canada) benefits from taking the latest US techniques and using them. WE have the greatest healthcare system in the world.
The government is tearing it apart so it can take control of it and further enslave people to its will. Obamacare will not (according to CBO numbers) get any more people covered than before it was implemented.
Oh, and when you do a search on medical wait times, all of the socialized medicine countries pop up in the results. the US does not. We can pretend wait times don't matter but here in the US, I can make a same day appointment to see my doctor. If he wants a cat scan, MRI, ext. I can get it the same day or next day.
Politicians won't tackle tort reform because most of them are lawyers and their constituency is made up of bottom feeders looking for a payday, not doctors or other intelligent people.
The US system has its problems but its still 1000 times better than what's going on in canada.

and it is pretty funny watching people talk about "free healthcare"
in detroit they're demanding free water, soon it will be free food. I wonder how many of you realize that this is the beginning of the end of our current society.
or that the next one won't be ANY better for any of you.

So those that pay for a social insurance have a different base healthcare level in Spain? Asking this because in Russia is doesn't matter if you pay the the taxes/social insurance or not. The state clinics will threat you the same way. Course we have a paid medicine here as well, so if you are an employee of some company, that company may provide you a special paid medical insurance in a commercial clinic where you can get a better service, but the basic medicine (free ambulance transfer, free place/food in a clinic, free tests, free treatment and free meds) is the same for everybody here.

For example, any adult in Russia has to pass a free x-ray and the basic medical tests every two years. Course nobody can force you to do so, but in some companies you may have a problem with your labor contract if you ignore these tests.

That's not a big money for a commercial clinic actually. We have about the same prices in commercial clinics here.

yes yes you hold a monopoly on world intelligence and north korea won the world cup :1orglaugh

oh and disregard the painfully obvious fact that the rest of the world gets it for free and you get ass raped :1orglaugh


so can most people in my 3rd world country for free but you will never understand how stupid you sound...man I can get a private MRI scan for 40$ I do not even have to make an appointment I can go right now out of pure boredom...fancy new german Siemens MRI not that american bullshit...

I know reality is bitter to any american, but your technology is produced a few months later in china for 100/th of the price, your technological "supremacy" is imaginary, just look at your auto industry, US cars are not superior in any way shape or form to european or jap cars...in fact, they suck balls and do not sell for shit in europe :2 cents:

north koreans and americans will just never get it :1orglaugh

leave it to the 3rd world to talk about cars in a heathcare thread.
what country are you in again?

He's from serbia

He's alos OTR advocating rape.

I figured. fairly typical of the "nuh uh" crowd.

are you accusing me of being a rapist in a heltchare thread? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

man that healthcare must hurt your asshole so much that it forces you to go loooooooooow in defeding it :1orglaugh

***Make an accusation like this again that violates the rules and you will enjoy a vacation from GFY! - Eric

I think you've upset the Johnny Third World.

as someone that worked for Siemens Medical and Henry Schein (http://www.henryschein.com/), it made me chuckle a little :winkwink:

I didn't defend us healthcare. I pointed out you're from Serbia a country with truly shitty healthcare.

I have a rash.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2091rank.html

#169 the United states of America
#170 shithole serbia :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

oh this is infant mortality and our shithole free halthcare country has (According to the CIA) 6.16/1000 and the world superleader i-healthcare USA commander-in-cheif healtcare manages 6.17 deaths from 1000 :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

how how the FUCK do you explain that when serbia quote "has truly shitty healthcare"?? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

you fucking north korean stupid shit LOL...now go accuse me of being a rapist but you are in fact just projecting what your healthcare is doing to your asshole on me LOL

remember if it has "US" written in front of it, for example:

US education
US foreign policy
US politics
US healthcare
US army

then its a scam :thumbsup

Dipshit, I'm not the one talking shit re: your country every chance I get. That's what you do. Youre in here talking
shit while your situation is shitty.

Nevertheless, your link shows infant mortality rates not overall healthcare.

You can see how shitty yours is at http://thepatientfactor.com/canadian-health-care-information/world-health-organizations-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/

But yet the life expectancy in Canada is 80.5 and the USA is 76.

These threads are so stupid. My country is better than your country blah blah blah.

Health care is not free here we pay for it in taxes. That said I'd rather our system then the states. Anyone that thinks canadian healthcare is shit (baddog, 12clicks etc) has no idea what they are talking about. Everything here is prioritized. It's not perfect but it works. Going through personal experiences as a kid and now with my dad I have first hand knowledge how good it is here.

They treat you. Bill you out the ass. Let you settle, if you fight, for 1/4 the initial billed price. Then they'll even let you make payments at your own pace.

Course nothing s free. Everybody pays taxes. Furthermore, usually the working people pay for those who can't afford to pay any taxes as all. The question is how big the tax rate is (in %) and have you pay something else over that in case if you need a health treatment. This is a very essential moment actually.

man according to your list colombia has better healthcare than the USA :1orglaugh so does saudi arabia, morocco ect....

right next to you is cuba :1orglaugh:1orglaugh and my shitbag country is right up there with croatia and slovenia our healthcare is not listed on your bullshit list :1orglaugh

anyway: we get it for free and you will never understand this :1orglaugh

now go back and wave an american flag and defend your 500$ aspirin :1orglaugh