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mineistaken 03-07-2014 07:56 PM
Programmers, coders - how long does it take to create mobile (ios/android) app?
 
Hi, how long does it take to create ios/android app compared to the same thing created in a "regular" php way as a website?

For example one programmer quotes $400 for something to be created as a website and $3000 for the same thing created as Ios app.
I know that per hour rate is a bit higher for app development as opposed to "regular" programming, but even considering this it appears that creating an app takes 5 times more time than creating same thing as a website?

Wellness Cash 03-07-2014 08:46 PM
Sounds about right, its a different language and theres a lot of specific functions that differ between how ios and android work app wise.

freecartoonporn 03-07-2014 08:57 PM
too many factors.,
but app coding is much expensive.

baddog 03-07-2014 10:32 PM
I would not trust the one that said he could do it for $400; make him provide the product up front.

blackmonsters 03-08-2014 07:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddog (Post 20008283)
I would not trust the one that said he could do it for $400; make him provide the product up front.
:1orglaugh

When you read it you will know.

blackmonsters 03-08-2014 07:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mineistaken (Post 20008238)
Hi, how long does it take to create ios/android app compared to the same thing created in a "regular" php way as a website?

For example one programmer quotes $400 for something to be created as a website and $3000 for the same thing created as Ios app.
I know that per hour rate is a bit higher for app development as opposed to "regular" programming, but even considering this it appears that creating an app takes 5 times more time than creating same thing as a website?
It's not the code in the App; but the 15 phones they have to buy to test it.

:1orglaugh

EddyTheDog 03-08-2014 07:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mineistaken (Post 20008238)
Hi, how long does it take to create ios/android app compared to the same thing created in a "regular" php way as a website?

For example one programmer quotes $400 for something to be created as a website and $3000 for the same thing created as Ios app.
I know that per hour rate is a bit higher for app development as opposed to "regular" programming, but even considering this it appears that creating an app takes 5 times more time than creating same thing as a website?
Make sure the web site is coded in HTML5 and is responsive - Then you can make it into an Android app for much, much less - I think it should be easy to do it for iOS as well - Not my thing though...

FetishBar 03-08-2014 08:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddyTheDog (Post 20008477)
Make sure the web site is coded in HTML5 and is responsive - Then you can make it into an Android app for much, much less - I think it should be easy to do it for iOS as well - Not my thing though...
+1 about html5 and then use appsgeyser to make android app

adultmobile 03-08-2014 08:42 AM
It depends if the app is written as native (Objective C for IOS and Java for Android, 2 very different source codes and languages/API), or, if the guy is going to use tools.

For example, just knowing web (css, jscript) you can use Adobe Phonegap to create ios/android apps:

http://phonegap.com/

A very nice article:
http://mobile.smashingmagazine.com/2...art3-phonegap/

Top apps you should make native (games etc.), because phonegap is not so fast or supporting all, but native apps should cost $thousands depending what you do. For most not-so-top-of-the-edge apps, you can use phonegap and should cost like a web app.

johnnyloadproductions 03-08-2014 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adultmobile (Post 20008511)
For example, just knowing web (css, jscript) you can use Adobe Phonegap to create ios/android apps:

http://phonegap.com/

A very nice article:
http://mobile.smashingmagazine.com/2...art3-phonegap/
Phonegap, titanium, Corona SDK, selenium, etc. Many choices.

fris 03-08-2014 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddog (Post 20008283)
I would not trust the one that said he could do it for $400; make him provide the product up front.
ya 400 is incredible low, even $3000 is pretty low, i guess it depends on the app

baddog 03-08-2014 09:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fris (Post 20008527)
ya 400 is incredible low, even $3000 is pretty low, i guess it depends on the app
Apparently we both read it wrong.

mineistaken 03-08-2014 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddog (Post 20008531)
Apparently we both read it wrong.
Of course you read it wrong. How can you say that 400$ is low for website if you do not even know what is it and how long does it take to create? :1orglaugh
Maybe the site I am talking about takes 2-3 hours to create.
This was relative example to show the difference in pricing between same thing coded as website and same thing codes as Ios app..

Seriously, how the fuck do you know if 400$ for website is low if you do not know what is it? :helpme

kjs 03-08-2014 11:56 AM
Consider doing your app it in straight HTML5. We dumped objective C and went with building apps that look the same, perform better, we can update server side, etc. Build a wrapper for it and push it to app store. Works everywhere.

mineistaken 03-08-2014 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjs (Post 20008635)
Consider doing your app it in straight HTML5. We dumped objective C and went with building apps that look the same, perform better, we can update server side, etc. Build a wrapper for it and push it to app store. Works everywhere.
I just read that app store likes to reject apps constructed like this, unless they have some features that website does not. Anyway, my question for you:
Does it really take 5 times more time to develop same thing in objective C as it takes to develop same thing as a website?

Meaning - if it takes X time to build picture rating website it takes 5X time to build the same thing in objective c? Or if it takes X time to build weather website does it take 5X time to build the same thing in objective C?
That is what I get from quotes - if they want X$ for website they want 8X$ or 10X$ for the SAME thing as objective C app.

BareBacked 03-08-2014 12:22 PM
from 1 hours to infinity lol

BareBacked 03-08-2014 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjs (Post 20008635)
Consider doing your app it in straight HTML5. We dumped objective C and went with building apps that look the same, perform better, we can update server side, etc. Build a wrapper for it and push it to app store. Works everywhere.
this sounds like good plan

Klen 03-09-2014 01:59 AM
Yikes,i wanted to ask same question,but considering price i think i going to learn it by myself.After all i already have experience with mobile programming,been at windows mobile programming workshop,tho documentation is kind a poor.And yes i also had in mind to go with HTML5 as that is universal platform,works on apple,android,windows etc..

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candyflip 03-09-2014 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddyTheDog (Post 20008477)
Make sure the web site is coded in HTML5 and is responsive - Then you can make it into an Android app for much, much less - I think it should be easy to do it for iOS as well - Not my thing though...
There are folks that do this, but it's not the same as a native app.

brandonstills 03-09-2014 06:00 PM
Apples and oranges. They behave different and involve different skill sets. Best option is to be very specific with the specs and have a programmer quote you.

fris 03-10-2014 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mineistaken (Post 20008610)
Of course you read it wrong. How can you say that 400$ is low for website if you do not even know what is it and how long does it take to create? :1orglaugh
Maybe the site I am talking about takes 2-3 hours to create.
This was relative example to show the difference in pricing between same thing coded as website and same thing codes as Ios app..

Seriously, how the fuck do you know if 400$ for website is low if you do not know what is it? :helpme
I thought this was for a mobile app on the appstore thats why I was saying that was low.

mineistaken 03-10-2014 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonstills (Post 20009645)
Apples and oranges. They behave different and involve different skill sets. Best option is to be very specific with the specs and have a programmer quote you.
I know that they are different.
I am not sure if I can be any clearer than that:

Does it take 5+ times more time to code the SAME thing in objective C than to code the same thing as a website?
Example: picture rating site. Same thing created as a website cost X$. Same thing created as Ios app cost 8X$ or 10X$.
Even considered that objective C programmer's hourly rate is a bit more than "regular" programmer's it still implies that app would take at least 5 times more time to create.
Is that true or not? Simple question.
It is difficult to imagine such a programming language that would be so unflexible that people would need to waste 5 times more time to do the same thing...

Lykos 03-10-2014 12:00 PM
Doesn't meter how much time it takes, lol...

It is that not many ppl like PHP can do it, not so many developers doing that like other technologies , just starting to be big. And therefore they determine the price

mineistaken 03-10-2014 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lykos (Post 20010329)
Doesn't meter how much time it takes, lol...

It is that not many ppl like PHP can do it, not so many developers doing that like other technologies , just starting to be big. And therefore they determine the price
It absolutely does matter, because I already calculated the different (higher) hourly rate into the mix.
I was reading stackoverflow and threads about objective C programmers hourly rate and it was up to 1.5 higher than "regular" programmers (again info from the same stackoverflow). Even if I consider super generous DOUBLE hourly rate it still implies that it takes 5 times more time to do it because price is 10 times higher...

Mikex 03-10-2014 02:10 PM
I think there are a lot of factors which we have to consider.

Today there are a way more PHP developers than iOS (objective C) developers, that's first factor and main in my opinion. Just like Ruby developers, these days they are much more expensive than php developers. So when mobile apps become so used and much more popular for programmers i think those prices will be smaller.

When we work on evaluation of the project, clients mostly want web site and app together so we are providing quote for everything (website - php, mysql database, app code and designs of the app and site)

sumeet.kaleido 03-10-2014 02:21 PM
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blackmonsters 03-10-2014 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mineistaken (Post 20010308)
It is difficult to imagine such a programming language that would be so unflexible that people would need to waste 5 times more time to do the same thing...
You clearly don't know jack shit about programming in C then.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

mineistaken 03-12-2014 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackmonsters (Post 20010539)
You clearly don't know jack shit about programming in C then.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh
That is exactly why I created this thread, genius.

If someone who knows about objective C could come out and say "yes it takes 5 times more working hours to create the same thing in Objective C, because of this, this and that" it would be appreciated.

brandonstills 03-12-2014 11:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mineistaken (Post 20010308)
I know that they are different.
I am not sure if I can be any clearer than that:

Does it take 5+ times more time to code the SAME thing in objective C than to code the same thing as a website?
Example: picture rating site. Same thing created as a website cost X$. Same thing created as Ios app cost 8X$ or 10X$.
Even considered that objective C programmer's hourly rate is a bit more than "regular" programmer's it still implies that app would take at least 5 times more time to create.
Is that true or not? Simple question.
It is difficult to imagine such a programming language that would be so unflexible that people would need to waste 5 times more time to do the same thing...
I can't speak to the exact numbers in this situation, but as a programmer who has been doing it for almost 30 years now I can say the claim does not sound unreasonable. You have to factor in that PHP is a much easier language to program in than Objective-C. PHP has more tools, knowledge, and tutorials available to learn how to do a particular task. This allows for greater efficiency with PHP. There are fewer people that know Objective-C (less supply, greater demand = higher price). Objective-C can take 10 lines of code to do what other languages can do in 1 line of code. Objective-C programmers tend to live in wealthier areas and therefore they demand higher salaries. PHP programmers can be found everywhere and so there are downward pressures on the price due to increased competition from 3rd world countries. Also, venture capital dollars are more likely to find their way into programmers of Obj-C programmers than PHP programmers?that causes even more of a price spike.

Quote:
It is difficult to imagine such a programming language that would be so unflexible that people would need to waste 5 times more time to do the same thing
Actually this is the norm. There is a great deal of difference in terms of developer productivity between different languages / platforms / technologies.

Have a look at this artice: http://www.drdobbs.com/jvm/the-compa...ramm/240005881

It stops at ASP which is still a fairly unproductive language. If I were to estimate other languages using the same scale I would add the following:

Ruby: 1.2
Python: 1.4
Coffeescript: 1.8
Javascript: 2.5
PHP: 4
Objective-C: 11

brandonstills 03-13-2014 12:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackmonsters (Post 20010539)
You clearly don't know jack shit about programming in C then.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh
Hehe, try assembly code. I didn't even know there was such a thing as C when I was writing assembly. C was a god send at that time.

mineistaken 03-13-2014 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonstills (Post 20013523)
I can't speak to the exact numbers in this situation, but as a programmer who has been doing it for almost 30 years now I can say the claim does not sound unreasonable. You have to factor in that PHP is a much easier language to program in than Objective-C. PHP has more tools, knowledge, and tutorials available to learn how to do a particular task. This allows for greater efficiency with PHP. There are fewer people that know Objective-C (less supply, greater demand = higher price). Objective-C can take 10 lines of code to do what other languages can do in 1 line of code. Objective-C programmers tend to live in wealthier areas and therefore they demand higher salaries. PHP programmers can be found everywhere and so there are downward pressures on the price due to increased competition from 3rd world countries. Also, venture capital dollars are more likely to find their way into programmers of Obj-C programmers than PHP programmers—that causes even more of a price spike.


Actually this is the norm. There is a great deal of difference in terms of developer productivity between different languages / platforms / technologies.

Have a look at this artice: http://www.drdobbs.com/jvm/the-compa...ramm/240005881

It stops at ASP which is still a fairly unproductive language. If I were to estimate other languages using the same scale I would add the following:

Ruby: 1.2
Python: 1.4
Coffeescript: 1.8
Javascript: 2.5
PHP: 4
Objective-C: 11
Thanks for reply, finally somebody was direct on topic which was as simple as difference in number of hours that takes to do the same thing in php and obj C.

ps: hourly rates are irrelevant to my question as I already taken that into consideration by quoting "5 times more time" when quote per project was 10 times higher. So I already considered very generous double hourly rate for objective C programmers (while stackoverflow threads suggested only up to 1.5 time higher hourly rate).

So please, everybody, no more posts about higher hourly rate as this was already taken into consideration at the very beginning! :)


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