Business Thread: One reason sales are down that nobody ever discusses. Your Thoughts?
 

I was recently in attendance at a tech conference keynote where the speaker discussed that many mainstream companies are now struggling online. In the past most online companies relied on mailing, seo and banner advertising as their bread and butter. Those days are long gone. Mailing open rates continue to decline, seo has completely changed and banner click thru rates continue to decline as well. Each of these three areas not only yielded great results but were FAST results. They were easy results. You didn't have to work very hard for them relatively speaking. The companies doing well today are those companies that have invested time and money in developing relationships with their clients.

As I sat their listening to this it really hit home. This has happened in adult as well. A large majority of adult companies that had great success were very successful at banner advertising, seo and mailing. How many adult companies have develop relationships with their existing customers? I would say very few. How many of them spend time developing relationships with prospective clients? Even fewer. I know when I ran Twistys and GayTube I made sure the entire team knew the importance of the customer, the relationship we had with them and making sure they were happy. On Twistys I spent a lot of time on the Members Forum discussing everything from suggestions to complaints to ideas to site upgrades. It was very important to me that the members knew I cared and more importantly I appreciated them as a customer. We didn't always see eye to eye but I cared about them. I think that played a huge role in Twistys weathering the tube storm that hurt many pay sites. I didn't do near enough with non members but the mentality was there and I know if I ran it today I'd have a number of strategies in place to really connect with people and get a huge following for the brand/site.

I thought up of a few starting points for anybody who would wants to try to improve their business in 2014.

#1. If you don't respect your customer change your thinking NOW! He's not a dirty porn surfer. He's not a loser. He's your customer and if you are a pay site he's made the decision to share some of his hard earned money with you. If you were walking down the street and a stranger walked up to you and gave you $25 or the next time you go out to eat some stranger picks up the bill for you. Would you appreciate it? Of course. Would you thank them? Of course. Why not do the same with your members?

#2 Make sure you are close to whoever does your customer support. Don't outsource you customer support. Customer support holds the answer to many of your problems and can give you the pulse of your industry. Make sure you have control of it and full access at all times to all support tickets.

#3 Know when a certain segment of the market is growing and when it's declining. Mailing can still be profitable but it's not going to make a comeback. Know that you will most likely see decreasing returns on mailing from today moving forward. Also know that there are new areas that open up daily for you to explore. Is your brand on Twitter? On other adult friendly social media platforms? Are you working those platforms properly? Or are you applying the same tactics across all of them? Ie are you blasting the same content in the same way across Twitter, Tumblr, Instagram, and Facebook? or are you catering to each market and what works best on each?

#4 Do you have any way to communicate with your customers and do you know much about them? Ie Do you know who your best customers are? Where did you get them? What other sites do your customers like? etc etc

Those are just a few quickies. If any of you want to discuss this more by all means let's discuss it. If you'd like any direct feedback for your particular situation I'd be more than happy to try to drum up a couple of ideas for you.

I'd love to know what your thoughts are on this. Fire away :)

Happy Holidays and a Happy and Prosperous 2014 to you all :thumbsup

Actually I push femdom so my customers like to be called losers:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Some good points there Shap. Happy and prosperous 2014 to you btw.

Stopped reading here.

You sold your websites to the people who conspire with card bangers and rob surfers for $150 per sale. They are making millions, while webmaster who treat surfers like valuable customers are out of business.

Go fuck yourself.

Thanks for taking the time to write all that Shap! Here are my thoughts:

First, if you ran Twistys today, I think you'd be shocked that no matter how interactive your Members Area was your rebills would still be anemic. Many, many webmasters who have "thriving" Members Areas with high interactivity are seeing rebills go down. I think it's a state of the Industry and economy.

But to your points: The issue I have with 'love your customers more' is that many paysite members do not want 'interactivity'. They come for the jack, to whack it and sack it, hit and run, etc. Now maybe niche sites, amateurs, cuckold and other more personal porn sites can benefit from such interactivity but I know from my own experience: the LAST thing I want is some porn site I've joined contacting me for 'feedback'.

Mainstream is finding it difficult these days because they do not know how to 'soft sell' so their ad campaigns become ever-increasingly shrill and obnoxious until their customer base tunes them out. Most mainstream companies (giant corps) cannot figure out how to tone it down a bit. So they do what every small-minded/desperate fucker does: try to squeeze more out of the customers he DOES (still) have.

Not a bad thing at all but by no means is this a long-term successful strategy, especially in adult with declining rebills and loyalty.

Websites themselves need to change, to be less IN YOUR FACE and more seductive and things that draw you in. I'm still working on this aspect of the Internet. LOL But remember (some of you) when you could walk down a "red light district" and see all those flashing XXX/Live Nude Girls signs? Kinda cool at first but then annoying as time went on. Most porn sites are like that now.

Anyway, at least we know how Shap is spending his time!! :)

Interesting - It does kind of clash with the points about respecting the client...

I have recently started a new network of blogs and I went into it with the idea of taking my time and making it something very surfer and customer friendly. I have ads and promote sites on them, but I am trying to make the sites user friendly so that people will have a good experience. I feel if they have a good time they might be a little more inclined to click a banner or ad if they see something that intrigues them than if I just try to filter them through to a sponsor as fast as possible.

One interesting things is that the sites are getting a lot of mobile traffic. About 65% of the visitors are on a phone or tablet. I have had a few people tell me to just redirect them, but instead I have worked to make the sites mobile friendly and it is starting to pay off.

The sites are laid back and have minimal ads and yet I am starting to see click though rates that are better than just about anything else I have. Also, Google is showing me some love. They may take that away, but it feels good at the moment.

Trust matters. Unlike brick and mortar, websites don't exist in a neighborhood. A customer can't see that you are in an expensive building with a high rent and other reputable businesses nearby the way they can offline. Anything you can do to increase the feeling of trust a new buyer or recurring member feels for your site is essential. Many customers choose not to buy because they fear hundreds of dollars of charges, bogus offers, misuse of their private information, etc...

It does not matter if your site is honest nearly as much as it matters if a prospective customer feels it is honest. People buy what they believe is safe, and if your site is littered with typos, is hosted in dubious ways, uses billing methods that feel shady, brought them to it in a way they distrust... It damages your ability to convert or retain them - even if you are a squeaky clean business. There are plenty of ways to improve consumer trust and they are likely the fastest way to improve sales from your new or existing traffic.

That's true for any online business in 2014, mainstream or adult.

Happy New Year

Customer respect is of course #1 - but an aspect about this to consider is what are you respecting?

Many customers of online adult content appreciate anonymity. Are you respecting this if you approach them somehow?

To refine what you're saying:

Although direct email might not work, newsletters function as customer-approved means of contact. Those who won't submit their email addresses don't want you to approach them in any way - or rather, don't want to have a record anywhere of their "contact" with your site (forget Snowden and the NSA - think of the wife!).

Think also of the huge deleted/junk/spam/whatever folder of most freemail providers now - who the hell ever purges those unless they unrealistically must?

However, having a separate contact form in your members area, with a corresponding inbox section, can help invigorate the personal interaction with members/customers (think social network applications, bulletin boards, something along those lines).

Depending on whether you have a solo site or multi-model site, you could/should have a drop-down referring that customer's communication targetted specifically to their "favorite" - or by other subject/topic/niche.

In the best of circumstances, this could be replied to by that "favorite".

This could be an option offered only to those who need anonymity.

Those who don't can use standard email-reply, newsletter or other interactive responses... like paid custom-fetish recorded video replies (online or downloaded upon request) or just a drop-shipped custom photo or basic calendar....

I'm spitballing here so bear with me :)

If you're big enough to require direct phone support, I definitely agree with having direct, "personal" support (from past experience with all kinds of Indians who are trained to say stuff like "So how about that [insert local sport or weather phenomenom]?" while they're waiting on more specific technical responses...

Definitely agree: do not spamblast the same message across multiple social platforms; I've blocked or removed contacts across many who either repeat the same shite over and over or constantly post consumer-oriented stuff to industry-oriented forums/groups/you-name-it.

To know what other/other-kinds of sites customers like, run members/social area polls.

To reach out to those who request absolutely anonymity (and who clear cache, offline files, cookies, etc. because of other people's access to their computer), grant customer loyalty specials, discounts or bonuses targetted at them specifically and keep a list of users who don't submit email addresses vs. those who do - and if you can try to provide separate access/tours/welcome-paths between each.

Much of that would be software/programming steps, which are not undoable, just additional time/resource/expense factors.

There, I seem to have spit the last ball :P

OH except - (post)Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and generally happy holidays to all!

:D

Actually I agree with everything else you said except for the above.

Because - a user and/or potential customer builds their own "neighbourhood" the more they surf and find good, not-bullshit links and sites.

I know things are different now than they were say ten years ago - but actually not so much. Pop-ups have become pop-unders, half-page ads have become IM/Sim popups, etc...

And if you are/were any kind of porn consumer, then you develop a list of "safe" sites or bookmarks that you go back to over and over again. Because of model, niche or whatever other kink they serve.

And every day or whenever you get that free-time window, you go back to the same 'hood you've developed, just to see updates, new additions, and what/whoever...

It's been true for me since the start :)

Happy New Year!

:D

Good stuff, I quoted above what I think are the best few points. Shap, are you going to be at the Phoenix Forum. I would love to connect if so.

But...they all want the option of interactivity. To say that the customer doesn't want a possible channel to the seller flies in the face of decades of research on and offline.

By non intrusive, yes, but give the customer the option.

You still bill with ccbill so all of your thoughts are void.

Member interaction = controlling billing
customer support = controlling billing
unique offers = controlling billing
innovative ideas = controlling billing

As you send in a ticket to ask permission... i just do it.

Talk about what is holding back growth is staring you in the face mr peabody and shapster

He sold his sites close to top of market to one of the versy few buyers that was going to pay anywhere near what they were worth in an industry skewed by a false sense of risk.

No offense but unless you have been in his shoes and taken a different path your judgment is baseless. I treat my surfers and affiliates like gold, however I would have made that choice for my family.

What would you have REALLY done?

Sorry if I wasn't clear because I agree with you 100%. More choice is (usually) a good thing. What I meant was how much time does a company devote to the Members Area's 'interactivity'? It seems a tendency to become slavish to it, to become slaves to updating, forums, etc. I would be 100% convinced if I saw rebills at the 10-12 month levels via high interactivity, then I'd say the effort was worth it. But rebills being 3-4 months tops, and in most cases 2-3 months, it doesn't seem worth the effort. I am probably missing something here and I know some will say they have rebills of over a year etc. I'm saying most mid-sized webmasters are seeing stagnant rebills so in that event I wouldn't spend a lot of time on Member interactivity where it took MY time to focus on it.



First, congratulations on your success! I know it must feel great to get any love or traction at all and to see your efforts paying off for you. That is AWESOME!! Enjoy it for now and for however long but never forget that feeling, it will help during the slow times. :)

In your case, a Blog network is much differant than paysites or tubes etc. Your success will depend largely on your writing skills, and people love to take their tablets/phones to the bathroom with them and peruse whilst pooping. LOL So I see only growth for you! When you control the writing you control the focus so doing things in a laid-back "I'm just showing you something cool, I don't need the money; in fact don't pay me, pay THEM" way works amazingly well with Blogs. Again, congrats and keep going!!



Anyone with a brain would've taken the money and run like heck to the Bahamas mama. Shap is a Hero.

I think what also gets lost in most retention metrics is returning customers being tracked in regards to their overall CLV (customer life-time value)

NATS, Mansion, and others did your ears perk up? They should have.

$ per subscription is a great metric. However a better one would be true CLV. I have had many customers join off and on over the course of a decade. The value of each subscription may be $85-$95 per go, however when you track that user joining three separate times it goes up significantly.

In short this is where the increased customer service and interactivity shows up.

Retention rates of 2-3 and 3-4 quickly get to 1 year+ when it is tracked that way

Yes I see what you mean. I try and add a new paysite to my network about once every 6-8 weeks and that helps with rebills but many of my Members cancel then re-join a few months or even years later, to catch up on all the new sites, features, etc. Long-term thinking, I like it!! :thumbsup

Lol you got me :)

This thread was intended for people that actually make money not a moron like yourself

Sorry you feel that way :/

Thanks Same to you!

Well done! Keep it up sounds like you are headed in the right direction.

Well said

No plans to be at Phoenix. Don't go to any shows anymore :/

I don't want to troll - Really I don't - But how is he wrong?..

Is it a case of 'Don't do as I do, do as I say'?....

I can live with that - I do it all the time - I am fantastic with other peoples money - My own finances however - Don't go there...

Exactly give options
Email
Web forum
Rating system
Content comment section
Website inbox
Accessible thru social networks.

Give them the options to reach you in a way that works for them

This will be my first in 7 years, I am feeling it though. I think now is the time.

Twistys clients have been well treated since the move. People hate Manwin for their tubes. From a paysite standpoint they treat their members well.

Shapalicious should hit a few of the bigger shows. Get out of the house, and perhaps kick around some business ideas and brainstorm with those who are left in the industry with some of your 'thoughts on life'. There is still money to be made, but you have to take some of those tools you mentioned and use them in different ways.

Email works fine. You just can't keep carpet bombing people and think that you will get 2001 conversions. The same can be said for just about anything online. Simply throwing shit at a wall hoping enough will stick to make a living is being phased out by better services focused on surfer/member wants. People pay $5.00 a video at clips4sale because they have control and a choice despite they can get 1000 videos for $19.95. You should be focused on providing that so of tailored service. Listen to the buyers, give them what they want. Track and data mine what they are doing, and give them targeted options based on preferences.

In short, this is not mystery science theatre. The answers are out there, and often times, provided for you right in front of your face with data and numbers you already have available to you. From there, you simply have to take that information, and craft it into a better mousetrap. Some of it takes time, trial and error. Others take cash. Either way, it can be done.

:2 cents:

OK - I will back away now...

Wow.....

Wow what?

I don't fault you for bailing out at the right time, but you out of place to be preaching about taking care of the surfers.

The likes of Manwin completely destroyed that business model. Now what is left is milking surfers for everything you can. Take their money and run.

Yeah, it sucks. I don't agree with it and won't be acting on it. But this is how some people "adapt".

Here is what I took out of your garbage...

I am a fat fuck behind a keyboard who lost my house, my possessions, and my gf of 14 years.

I don't have any clue, at all, what in the fuck I do except spew my venom on non suspecting victims. My name is....

CHRIS... THE ONE, AND ONLY, BIGGEST LOSER EVER.

I won't even mention your real name... but really... you have no business, at all, to tell anything to anyone. You are a loser mr. barefoot and kindly go fuck yourself!

:warning:warning:warning:warning:warning

OK - That's total BS - That's why 'wow'...

You asked.....

Do you think that Twistys' customers have been treated well?..

Come on Shap - You know that they have been fucked as well as I do - If not then again - WOW.....

Maybe Shap still posts here out of some twisted sense of guilt?

:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

I got the first one - What's In It For Me - but what's the second one?

Never Piss Sideways?
No Pakistani Snatch?
Nice Pussy Stench?
Nowadays People Suck?
Norwegian Psycho Sluts?
Nazis Perfected Santa?
Nine Pound Sausage?
Near Perfect Strangers?
Never Pay Spaniards?
Nowhere Private Shit?
Native Penis Suckers?

Damn this is killing me.....

Net Promoter Score?

What does that even mean?

No, no, it must be something like:

No Point Snuggling
Not Pretty Smut
Nice Party Shirley
Need Pepper Spray
naughty Polish Strippers

Fuck man help!

Fucked in what way cause I don't think I agree either here.

I can see what you mean from the tube site game and their advertisers raping potential clients but their paysites used to be pretty straight forward for members without any shady tricks.

Lets set up a meeting, want to meet you!!

That is funny :1orglaugh

Especially for ridiculing his pretentiousness :)

I think 1.65 million hits per hour to not even the largest tube site has a FUCKLOAD more to do with it than us not finding the right kind of advertisement.

Not true, websites do have neighborhoods and customers can often get a quick sense of whether or not a site is reputable or trustworthy just by looking at the domain name.

Keyword.com = Reputable business in good neighborhood
Silly-Hyphenated-Keywords.xxx = Questionable business in bad neighborhood

Agreed

Roald - Seriously dude - The guys selling the advertising are the same guys buying the advertising...

All those people buying AWE pop behinds on the tubes - Who do you think they are?....

One word - TAX...

Not too sure about that, I know a few of the guys (big media buyers) behind the dating, cam and toon offers and they are not the same guys.

anyway, what has that to do with their paysites and how they treat their members? I think thats more what Shap is after here.