heres a thought why porn shooters are not working
 

something just dawned on me from recent interactions with producer types.

its funny to hear people complaining about no work or the state of the industry when you know some back history.

no offense to photographers or videographers or anyone in particular becasie this is a bit of a harsh reality as i see most shooters.

most adult shooters that i know or shooters in mainstream for that matter i know are broke and most are arrogant too.

why is this?

why would someone whos scraping by act like such arrogant douchebags.

heres my thought why they are broke as to the arrogant part thats a deeper issue but related.

most suck balls and they feel like their TRUE RATE $100-200/hr for 4-5 hours for camera work , average porn lighting and close to zero creativity.

some higher level shooters are surely more worth what they charge but the vast majority hardly work much and when they do i feel they need to charge crazy prices cause they dont work much and are check to check.

whats preventing them from doing other work between shoots?

i always say to myself if i think i should be making X$ a year then show results or in reality im not deserving of what i think i should really be earning.

sowhy is it most (not all) shooters feel entitled like they are better than other professions of equal skill that have lower rates on average?

even stranger is when they get a possible client and they wont take the work at a lower rate and rather chose to not work and the you hear them complaing about being broke and no work being around.

even stranger is when you hear them complaining there no work around...

when i was starting out and needed money i would work my ass of for whatever was around ....

I have seen very reasonable prices from most.

There is 1 guy i know is full of shit asking 5k for a solo shoot and had the nerve to start a thread saying buyer was a cheap fuck. The buyer happened to be malrboroak but thats another story.

But even those shooters charging $150 in their pocket for half a day, are still struggling. Inherently, adult is very cheap and it is because content is not worth what it was. But everything evens out eventually. When content dries up (now) major free tubes will dry up and surfers will then need to go elsewhere. Content needs will come back, likely take 5 years to get the shit out of thae way first.

sure i know a bunch of guys charging $150 for pov or solo for what ends up being a few hours of work and these guys you dont hear bitching and they are working regularly but the majority of :NO WORK IS AROUND: guys i know of are always asking for 100-200 and hour and refuse to work for less.

they might be good and worth it but if you refuse work at a lower rate you dont need to be complaining about the state of things cause ur just damn lazy imo

Brian from texas
Zigzag from czech... red glamour guy
Amacontent (shoots more then pov)

All people who are reasonable in prices.

You can also become friendly with site owners who shoot their own stuff and work out a deal.

Anyone asking $200 an hour can shove it, it is nowhere near the going rate.

Myself, as well as NaughtyRob shoot quite affordably...don't complain as described ib the first post, and try to work with people's budgets as best as possible.
I can definitely see the OP's point from some threads in here though!

Someone always has anecdotes like this. It's the same for affiliates.

"Most affiliates are lazy"
"Oh, you're promoting the wrong stuff"
"Your sites are from 1999 and never changed since then"
"If only you promoted HD content instead..."
"You must be in the wrong niches"
"You don't know how to get quality traffic"

Usually it's just some guy throwing these out about someone he doesn't know and for whom he has never seen a site of theirs. In most cases it's the most obvious answer which is correct. The whole sector of the business is simply down overall. I bet it's the same for most shooters too.

The reason they are broke is because the industry collapsed. Content is much cheaper. The reason they are "arrogant" is because they never used to work for pennies and they aren't all that eager to do that now. I can certainly understand the feeling.

we're a company with 4 fulltime and several additional freelance employees

a registered company with a tax accountant, paying tens of thousands a year in taxes, health and social insurance.

we don't kid around and our clients appreciate 100% reliability and 100% professionalism

we also don't shoot $400 POVs just because it's a convenient way to get your dick sucked at the end of the day and make some extra bucks on that

we get "budgets" offered on boy/girl shoots that don't even cover the rate we pay the girl and then we get asked if we can't negotiate the performers down. Performers that actually risk their health (see HIV threads) so that others can profit from that.

The truth is: For a successful paysite operator, the costs for content are negligible. When you do 500 new sign ups a day plus rebills, you can afford to spend good money for good content.

we are still pretty well booked and in the worst case we could still live from our shop alone - that's why we are way from desperate.

actually i don't complain at all. :)

Girls rates in LA are from $700-$1000 for BG scenes if they are hot. It takes about 3 hours to shoot a hardcore scene with setup, wardrobe, video, & stills. Good male talent is from $300-$700 depending on the quality of your stud. (My boy Chris Strokes makes $700 a scene and shoots 5-7 days a week for Bang Bros and other big companies that pay his rate) + $300 for 3 hours at a decent location.

So to shoot a high quality in LA cost anywhere from $1300-$2000 depending on how cheap of talent you use (you get what you pay for)

Lets say the shooter only profits $300 on the shoot thats $100 an hour
10% of the profit goes to CA state income taxes
20 % to the IRS
That brings it to $210 profit. You can make that waiting fucking tables in LA and that won't afford you any decent equipment with the cost of living out there.

Even at $100 an hour you just risked being sued for STIs and even prosecuted for obesenity laws. You give up your regular friends, family, and go under the social radar to be a pornographer.

Its not at all worth it even at $100 an hour to be shooting hardcore porn in LA. Fuck all the idiots who think otherwise. The company I was working for wanted me to work cheaper since there are guys in LA that will shoot just to be around pussy. When you can make a lot more shooting mainstream what is the point? It use to be a lot more lucrative than it is now and next time you question someone's rate ask them to break down the costs. Most people just don't get it as a lot of morons in this thread. There isn't much money left in porn unless you are shooting for the companies that actually pay. A lot of companies that want cheap content will fail when you get what you pay for in this industry. I use to make as much as the models as a shooting but for me to have to cut that in half and demote myself to less than I made shooting mainstream before porn is just ridiculous. A lot of the producers that will shoot for nothing are mopes that went and bought a camera from Best Buy and call themselves producers. Those type of shooters will only make you look bad to the agents and they wont send you the top girls. On top of that these type of producers will be the shady types and can lead to your company ending up in a courtroom soon.

I thought I was doing well in porn for a while in LA but even when I was getting the rate I wanted most of it went to taxes & equipment just to keep up with technology. Once I had spent tons of equipment to help develop artistic shooting operations for a major company I was shit on and replaced by a crew that I trained myself. I was told they would be shooting in another region so I was to train them but in fact they took over my whole shooting operation. They even stole my production assistants/makeup artists.

You nailed it man well said. Pretty soon only the mopes will be around to shoot for all these failures.

well... there can be the case when $200/hour is a reasonable price >> if a camera guy supplies all the equipment + light

:) of course, I am talking about the pro equipment :)

... every producer knows that you don't need much to shoot amateur videos, but the case is different if you want to shoot Glam Porn as good as possible.

+ an experienced and skilled cameraman will save you loads of time + money where inexperienced one can destroy it all..

I suppose it is all about the budget of the project.

maybe you should question the model rates? a girl walks in fucks $800-$1000, the producer, preproduction, location and MU fees, buying gear, post production, delivery $150?

So after people shoot, who promotes it ? No one is left to, Even though I know for a fact that ratios in old school formats haven't changed much in 2-3 years, yet, people still build low end blogs, blogs are like going for just spending money when tubes and tgps are like going for gold.

I make about $100 an hour, $200 would be great

Shooting in other states can be a lot cheaper but you can go to jail much easier. In LA you would be struggling to pay your rent with 3 X the cost of living.

I was specifically speaking the the rate they charge not the whole shoot budget.

So you think $200 / hr is not a high rate to shoot a basic 3hr bg porn video?
Compare that to other industries even most mainstream and its ridiculously high.
I see this same thing in mainstream. Producers who used to charge stupid rates can anymore and are refusing decemt work to keep the ego in tact and holding out for the guy higher rate which os coming.

Its not just porn shooting that's down its mainstream too!

Yes bang pays well but they are one of the few so if not working for them I guess u passing work that still pays a decent hourly rate but not bangs rate so you can keep ur ego in tact.

my tax nut is 43.7%



exactly, I could do as well working 2 shifts at jack in the box, BUT I wouldn't get to live in a mansion

had clients in the past wanted the POV for $50 or free because I was getting laid

thinking ALL production will go in house with in the next 2 years, staff making 35K-40K with bennies, but 35K-40K will do all right in East Europe, think AHF will get Obama to invade Russia for condoms? bettcha they will fucking try :1orglaugh

Totally agree.

I totally agree you can always get guys to shoot that live with 4 roomates, have no gear and will do it for nothing just to be around pussy. Just ask Porno Dan he is always ahead of the game with his biz model and his business thrives by keeping the mopes around to work for him. He continues to thrive and to this day he wont get a video camera that costs over $300. I know this because I went with him to buy his cameras when I orginally setup his video streaming gear. He also gets talent cheaper since his shooting is done live. Most girls are done with their scene before other girls on other sets are out of the makeup chair.

excellent conversation!

Mg main point is comparing shooter hourly rates to other industries and I think they are high.
Great if u have a constant flow of work @100 or 200hr but if not and refuse to work at 50hr ur a lazy idiot amd deserve to not be working much.

Bang's shooter makes $500 a shoot (3-4 hours) and doesn't touch a light he shows up and shoots with their cameras and after the pop shot he hand the camera to the PAs and leaves before anyone else. They have 2 PAs that make $200 a day each just to setup and teardown the gear and sometimes they have to clean toys and have the lube ready when needed. They pay my boy Donnie $150 to talk to the girl for 15 minutes (interview) he doesnt touch anything either and leaves before the scene starts. They pay the girls well I filled in for Laslo a couple of times when he was sick. They paid $1500 for anal and $1000 for regular BG scenes.

I only know producers and we do all of our own shooting :2 cents: I book the shoots, do the production: video and stills, all the lighting, all the camera work, and do ALL the post production and all the paperwork and content delivery... why do suppose that relates to a guy walking in on a location with camera, then leaving after the shoot? reads to me that you have no fucking clue

Fitz, Jay and MD all have it right for what they do I think. I have been filming for over 10 years but never for anyone else unless it was a favor. There is so much more to it then hitting record and making the guy happy who is paying for it. They have a harder job then I do.

Totally agree.

I am making $350 today for a simple interview shoot 4 hours max on set. No models to pay, no laws broken, No agency fees. No extra 2k going through my bank account. Just some people talking about raw food for their nutrition infomercials. This is on the cheap end for now once I build up my mainstream portfolio I will be getting more. My advice is hire some mopes and get some equipment their will always be young and dumb newcomers that will shoot for peanuts.

I have a friend who works in mainstream as a shooter and does very well. Mainstream is a different world than adult. They pay him his daily rate,then his gear has a daily rate. His rate clock starts the moment he works out the door til he gets home.

Sound like its not as cool but mainstream is the one to build. You are talented,you build a name for yourself. Much Much more solid.

I never heard of a shooter working by the hour. Try that with the models "Im gonna pay you $100 an hour for anal" LOL

Ur arguing semantics show me you have no clue

I've come across my share of shooters producer whatever u n want to call them and Ive found many
Don't work much , have high rates when they do work and domt take availablenwork a lot because it doesn't jive w their ego.

now on the contrary I've met some hard working shooters that are not afraid to shoot for a resonable hourly rate.

as somebody that's work pretty much daily I have little pity for a producer shooter who wants 200 an hour and doesn't get it so he's not working much.

Do some reverse math an your question is answered.

[QUOTE=Jay-Rock;19790279]I never heard of a shooter working by the hour. Try that with the models "Im gonna pay you $100 an hour for anal" LOL[/QUOTE

I'm just breaking it down to the hour to illustrate that a shooter the charges $600 for shoot is getting 200 dollars an hour for 3 hours of work and that's very high compared to nearly every job on the planetexcept of course dumb s**** taking it in the ass who often walk out feeling that should have been paid more than that just $800 for a few hours of work.

it's kind of funny actually female talent is similar they work make $800 in a few hrs then don't work for a week and are complaining they're always broke or the industry is dead.

Try working more and not taking a week off between 1day jobs.

How many days a week do you work. Now tell the truth jay.

I suppose you also think attorneys make $300 an hour?

Way to simplistic a view.


.

of course I'm not over generalizing there are many shooters who don't falll in this category but over yrs I've seen so many that do Its crazy.

I just started doing mainstream again I don't work much my wife is the primary breadwinner right now I am back to playing music a few nights a week in a Houston Cover Band for a couple hundred a night. I am barely getting my new company off the ground http://houstonmediaservices.com

I moved out of LA and back to Texas because I just wasn't worth being away from my friends, family, & the music scene I am well connected in just to be struggling. I am much happier here without the struggle of LA and hustling to get a few porn shoots a month.

I am now back where I have real friends and family that makes me feel like a real person again. I had a good run with porn but I will leave it to the cheap guys unless it comes back. Keep in mind I started out shooting Met Art where I would make 2k in one day or Hustler magazine where they payed me $2500 for one photo set that took me 2 hours to shoot. If you were in my position you would have a different perspective.:2 cents:

I have a very awesome wife now that supports me not settling for less money when I had the chance to lower my rates she was the one that told me that I shouldn't. We moved to Texas and are starting over. She got a management job starting out at 60K a year even after she left her job in LA she was able to find a great job here. Our cost of living is 1/3 of what it was in LA for the same type of lifestyle. I am a much happier man now. If I see there is profit to be made in shooting I will gladly shoot for any company that is willing to pay I think it would be easier to live here and just travel to LA once in a while for a shoot.

It is possible that porn will never be as profitable as it once was. Even when you are doing well in porn I have learned that there is no security in being employed and clients are no more loyalty than the porn models you are shooting.

Ok so what do you charge for a solo girl video?

And pls dont tell me its soooo much higher casue make a phone call to book a model and a location amd write a check to the model.

From what you said its a lot more than 350 a day.

So why's it ok to make that in main stream and not adult?

[QUOTE=L-Pink;19790301]I suppose you also think attorneys make $300 an hour?

Way to simplistic a view.


.[/QUOTE

taxes expenses?
Lets operate on the assumption that I'm not a 15 year old kid that doesnt know anything about how the world operates

Agreed. There are enough photographers who would be more than happy to work on a $40-60k annual salary with a consistent weekly paycheck versus a company paying them $100-300.00/hour. Additionally, you are going to see more companies taking away the 'pay per scene' and more will work for a half or full day for a flat rate (something we have already done for years). Allowing them to shoot many scenes in that time frame versus a single scene.

:2 cents:

Here is a couple of the last solo scenes I shot. I am pretty sure you can't afford it. (note they didn't color grade the footage it looks undersaturated) We probably paid the model more than your entire budget and we paid $400 for 4 hours location $150 to a makeup artist. So the makeup and hair girl makes $150 to be on set for an hour and you are saying the producer should make less? I am pretty sure the content you are referring to doesn't apply here. Funny how companies want you to shoot for less that it would cost to rent the body of your camera without lenses.

http://www.webyoung.com/en/film/Tigh...Scene-01/50124

http://www.webyoung.com/en/film/Earl...Scene-01/50121

That's pretty nice. What was the total cost of that scene?

:2 cents::thumbsup

the issue being it's VERY difficult to shoot more than 1 scene a day... or even 1 scene per day. the flake rate is well over 40% now here in Montana. top shooters no longer have weekends off, once your a top shooter you have production schedules and site updates to meet. 3 girls don't show during the week, you toss your weekend plans with the family to make the deadlines. :2 cents:

Nice work top notch. Who was the web designer for that site?

If you become salaried, you are no longer scrambling to make your pennies.

:2 cents:

I always entertained the idea i these companies wanted to do the booking, locations, production management, & wardrobe/hair + pay the models directly (no massive amount of money going through my account for production costs)
I could just show up and shoot then the cost would go way down. As an adult producer you are the whole production crew, production manager, & more. You end up spending alot more hours than just shooting a porn scene. I have had 12 hours days where the actual scene only took 3 hours to shoot.

It's Gammaes site but it just looks like an X Art clone nothing special

somebody will be scrambling, that's the point of the post. staff shooters will not ease any production flow, right now the site aren't seeing this or do not realize this is the case... shooters and agents are well aware though :2 cents:

yes plenty of 16-18 hours days for me, weeks at a time

You would have to ask Gammae these are the most expensive solo shoots ever. Somewhere around 3k to shoot a couple of scenes that includes the editing/grading and they usually want it re edited a couple of times after giving feedback. The girl moves her head wrong and they want it cut out.

Did the guy who just said he's living off his wife tell me I cant afford his work?
Case and point.
Theres that ego problem i mention with producers think they're worth way more than actually are
if you were worth what you say you are then you would be getting what u think ur worth in mainstream and adult and I don't mean 4 times a year I mean four times a week
Please answer my question why is it okay to make 350 shooting the interview but not the same rate for the same amount of time shooting adult?

and I do understand there is some work that goes into it but the extra work like booking a a model is not all that much xtra work for solo girl shoot