Mainstream Design - Why Don't People Have A Clue About Costs?
 

Just got off the phone (Yes, we work on Sundays) with a potential client wanting to get a jiu jitsu site online, around 20 pages, a little custom programming needed for a contact / lead generation form plus 12 months hosting and a domain name, realistic cost in the region of $1500-2500 based on the high amount of graphics they wanted.

Asked what their budget was for this and the guy turned around and said $100.

Why don't business owners in mainstream / bricks & mortar world understand the value of web design?

Turned around after explaining to him why the costs involved were significantly higher than what he wanted to pay and told him he should get a template, and he went off saying he has a template now and its not working for him in the search engines...

I just don't get cheap asses, especially when their website is going to be the primary point of contact for their businesses.

/rant over

thx for sharin.

He's right though

because they r all stuoid ignorants

Websites are free http://www.webs.com/:pimp

To be honest, most of your designs look like $100 work.

He has a point though.

The plummer charges 150$ an hour to fix my pipes (norwegian prices) but the same guy wants his webpage made for free by his neighbours teenage kid who "is so freakin good with this computer stuff".

It was annoying as hell.

Much more fun playing guitar.

Jolly

For years all i heard was "why are you doing adult? there is no money in adult. You should be doing mainstream... now there's where the money is".

Ill stick with adult...

mainstream is hit or miss, sometimes you score easy $10k for something that realistically should cost $1k, sometimes you get idiots who want to pay $100 for the same work like that story OP shared with us... :2 cents:

Yup. After I told a mainstream client a price they turned around and asked "well how hard can it be to build a website?" I replied "so hard you are hiring someone to do it..." They want shit for free. I blame tubes.

Small business owners can be difficult to work with. Most are service specialists and not business people and far too often under value the power of good marketing. With that said, there are far too many sharks that rip off the ignorant small business owner which sours them on legit deals later on.

Like in any business, referral business is usually best. Once you have a solid rep and good prior clients, you can completely bypass those who don't understand.

He doesn't want you to get rich!

I usually give a potential client an estimate break-down (in hours) of what's involved in creating their site - overall design, graphics, scripting, photography (if needed), domain reg, ftp setup, etc. and charge a flat rate of $60/hr. (8hr. min.)

If they want razzle dazzle elaborate graphics, roll-overs, custom work - I work in additional costs.

We don't do a lot of site design these days, though...as the OP said - too many clueless people out there who have no concept of the work involved in creating a non-cookie cutter website.

WordPress is a prime example of this, everyone wants to have a WordPress website but they don't want one that looks like everyone else's... Until they hear the price, then it is usually 'But WordPress is free why so much?' then we go into exactly what you said, explaining the time it will take to plan, develop and deploy their concept.

That doesn't even touch on 'hosting' most people think that once they buy a domain name they are set, they don't realize they're looking at a minimum of $50 a year for a half-decent hosting plan... The amount of people I talk to every month that balk at the idea of having to spend an extra $50 after having paid us to do the design work is amazing.

Exactly.

Also very true.

Not to defend clients who have no clue about the real costs behind implenting a well-designed, custom website - but in a recession economy usually the first thing that gets downsized in a company's budget is advertising and marketing. Obviously that's not a good thing, but often the people holding the purse strings don't fully realize or comprehend the value of (website) advertising.

I recall back in the late 80s/early 90s during the last recession a LOT of companies in Toronto cut back on their advertising and promotion...and a lot of graphic/print companies were struggling to stay afloat as a result. I was in the print/press industry at the time and had to jump from company to company several times whenever their client base dried up.

Many of the small, independent print shops closed their doors - and only the largest ones that had big contracts managed to survive. Luckily I was able to get in with one of the largest at the time that had SkyDome (Ellis Don contractors) and Terminal 3 (Pearson Airport) as their lucrative printing contracts.

Easiest way to explain web design to clients: the restaurant analogy.

Have you ever walked into a restaurant and said "listen, I can do this myself I mean, it's dead simple. Hell even my fifteen year old cousin can cook. So I'm only willing to pay you basically a tip for the honour of making it for me"? No, because that would be stupid.

So why would web design be any different? Like a chef in a restaurant, you're not only paying for his skill, you're paying for the convenience.

Here's the price, you like it you order it, you don't you're free to go somewhere else and stop wasting my motherfucking time you clueless bitch.

An apt analogy - but we live in an era with the motto - "You can't fix stupid." You can use all kinds of analogies...but many people prefer to remain in denial of the reality.

we take some mainstream jobs...from some fairly big companies...we end up getting pushed around a lot...they change their mind, change this...can we change this...how about this cool thing...can we get that in there..etc etc etc

It's good for revenue, but grinds you down..lol

That's why the FIRST thing I ask when sitting down with a potential client is: what's your budget?

If they pussy-foot around or give me an unreasonable budget ie $50 bucks for a 100 page original design site then I say thank you, good luck and walk out.

"You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run."

$1500-2500 is nothing for a mainstream site

QFT. Not for a good one, anyway.
:thumbsup

I think some of it comes because you can find a site you like and ask someone with 5000 feedback on oDesk to copy it with modifications to fit your purpose and it will take 48 hours over a business week and cost $500, this from personal experience.

If I wanted to use a higher end designer (and I have) it would be if they really designed it, not just gave me a standard "template" looking site, and would have knowledge of how to route visitors, and experience with tools, and clear differentiation.

If you have all that more power to you, I'd put it right up front in your marketing.

I see it most of the time as the opposite. Since it costs much more to get design done in mainstream then adult. from what I have seen.

$100 :1orglaugh

What a dick

if it's not something original $100 is a high price, if not, well yes, it's really cheap