Long Term Girlfriend -- Is it Fair?
 

Here's a little break from the usual webmaster shop talk at GFY. A little "Women are from Venus, Men are from Mars" snack food for thought :)

I and a friend had a pretty heated argument recently. He's been dating the same girl for about 7 years and she just turned 29 last year. She's been gently raising the issue of "what's next?" [To those playing the home version of this thread...read: MARRIAGE] in their relationship.

My friend told me that he, currently, has no intention of marrying her. But since he may change his mind later and, not to foreclose on that "option," he is thinking of asking her to live with him. He tells me he is unsure of marriage at this point in his life, he just turned 31, because he just finished graduate school, finishing up his 3rd year in a good consulting firm, just bought a BMW X-5, [add generic Latino yuppie concerns here :) ] and it would be "unfair" to himself to get married when he is just "beginning to live."

He asked me in good faith what I thought about his "open option" plan of asking his girlfriend to move in with him. I told him...in good faith, and without judging him too hard [then again, life is one hard judgment--there are just gradations between "harmful" judgment and "helpful" judgment--often based on intention] that he was being SELFISH. It seems obvious that for the issue of MARRIAGE to even come up, that
his girlfriend is thinking about COMMITMENT and the long term prospects of their relationship. This is obviously very different from his priorities which is to ENJOY his bachelorhood albeit with the "safety net" of a girlfriend on the side. There's NO problem with both priorities--there IS A PROBLEM if they are being forced to coexist in an uneasy solution of cohabitation because they DO NOT SHARE THE SAME VALUES. My buddy it was a good deal, but I told him...look at it from her perspective--there's no guarantee you would get married or even get engaged, why string her along and burn up another 7 Years of her life waiting for your values to change.

One of the cores of a good, lasting, and stable relationship is the UNITY of values. Unfortunately, there's none here and "shacking up" only serves my friend's interests not his girlfriends' [since he knows or has reason to know she is looking to get married]. He asked me, is this SELFISH? Is this Immature? Why does everything have to lead to COMMITMENT?

My argument was that it doesn't have to lead to commitment AS LONG AS both the players know and operate from the same rules. Unfortunately, he has his own rulebook and apparently she has a different version. Thinking that cohabitation is a "fair" solution when you have reason to know that the other person is looking for commitment doesn't "smell right."


What are your thoughts?

Here's some background reading:
http://www.nationalreview.com/interr...tory021403.asp

No way... he should be slammin' some hoes

:1orglaugh

Moving in with someone is rarely a good idea if you plan on marrying them later... the divorce rate for couples that lived together before marriage is something like 50% higher than average.

wow you and your buddy had an extremely gay conversation!

at what point did he ask you what you were wearing? :1orglaugh

G Sharp,

I agree with you...they aren't heading in the same direction, why have her tag along hoping? Break it up when you know it's going in a different direction and don't keep her hanging on.

Point finale!

I'm 21 and just graduated from the college, my girlfriend (fiancée) is in her first year. We're "together" for 5 years and 6 months. She lives 3000km (1600 miles) away from me. We hate distance... so we're thinking about a marriage soon... just doesn't have the money yet.

Whats the problem with the marriage ?

Yeah, we actually have a friendship based on conversations that transcend Sports Center, The Man Show, and discussions about Jennifer Lopez' butt.

Its all about FAIRNESS.

if you dont know that you want to marry someone after 7 fucking years, its time to move on.

I agree 101%

He has a BMW and a god job?

Get his ass out to all the clubs and pick up some hotties!!!
If he is saying that he is unsure of marraige after seeing this girl for 7 years then there is no way he will marry her!

what about the other 9%?

If you don't like to read, here's a summary: He's "thinking" about asking her to move in with him after seven years together. The only reason he's even considering that is so he can string her along for a while longer and not "foreclose" on any options. I think that tells you pretty much all you need to know.

I've been with the same woman for around eight years, now. We're not married but we've been living together for about six years. I don't think you need marriage to prove love or commitment, but in your friend's case it sounds like his reasons for avoiding it are purely selfish. What kind of crap is "not fair to himself"? What a load of shit. It's "fair" to string a woman along for years on end with no intention of giving her what she wants? He sounds like the kind of jackass that makes us all look bad.

"Just starting to live" at 31 is immature bullshit. If you wasted the first 30 years of your life, it isn't your partner's fault. You want freedom? Cut her loose. All he's doing is keeping a string on her juuuust in case things don't work out but I've got a million bucks that says he's on the first train out of that relationship. He's just waiting for something better and he doesn't want to be lonely while he waits. She's gonna get burned.

Tell your friend to grow up.

SpaceAce

Well said, that's why it became a "heated" argument. But I think he can see the unfairness and immaturity of the "open option."

I told him that the reason he's even thinking of turning his girlfriend into a human emotional trapeze safety net is because of FEAR. Fear stemming from the need for social approval to be married at a 'certain age.' He and I share the same friends from college and about 80% are now married and some already on their second marriages... I guess he's looking at marriage more as a "social" option rather than the bouquet [or some New Yorker magazine readers would say-- the apotheosis] of shared goals and commitment --with a social/legal signifier.

The basic premise of relationships is nonsense in todays world. Why should anyone have the right to posses another person so fully. I think this is at the core of the various problems everyone is having.

To find one person that will fill every need you have and you will be able to fill their's is mathematically not probable for most people. A lot of people are in denial also thinking they are truly happy and their partner is trully happy.

Yeah. I agree 100.5%

I think she should dump him.

I agree 91.2%

Hopefully he has been with her for seven years because he loves her and not because it was convenient!

I think he has every right not to be ready for marriage just yet... but if he has NO INTENTION of marrying this particular girl then he should just break up with her... why the fuck date someone for 7 years if you have no intention of marrying her? Sounds like she was his support system during school and his first years of hard work and now he is ready to spread his wings and fly...

I bet you this guy would come crying to you about how much he misses her after 2 months without her... 7 years is a long time and he thinks he's the shit but let's see how he feels when he hears than she's having a good time with another guy... a guy who would make real love to her, a guy who will treat her with respect, guy who knows how to make a girl feel like a woman, a guy like me :Graucho

He just needs to tell her where he stands...
If it took 7 years for him to ask her to move in, she'd be dumb to think that he'll be asking her anything soon...

If he wants to sow his wild oats, step up be a man and tell her, its easier for him to find a new chick at 30 something (golddigger) then it is for her to find a new man...probably

yep either move foward or move on bottom line

Crystal clear.

... divorce ...

G Sharp, you are too cool.

I'm just sayin'.

Divorce is the "Un-marriage". I asked about the problems with the marriage. :Graucho

I must say again: distance relationships SUCKS big time. I'm about to get a taxi to the airport and buy a ticket to there. Damnit.

what is the whole point of marriage ?
you can live with a woman without marying her.

yeah, there isnt even a question here. Commited monogamous relationships are about 1) honestly 2) equal views on the terms and conditions of the relationship. Your friend seems to have neither and nothing but bad things can come from that. It almost sounds to me that he likes this girl (thus doesnt want to break-up) but is afriad that commiting to her is a declaration of becoming old. If he continues with this pattern, he will surely detroy the relationship, and in 5 years when he realizes that "bachelor freedome" is crap, and a loving monogamous relationship is soo much more free, and amazing he'll feel like quite a dick when he realizes what he gave up so he could get head from a gold digging blonde 20 year old.

I guess what you're really trying to say is that a couple enjoys many of the legal and domestic benefits of marriage already, why get married?

Good point but not entirely accurate. Child support does not require the parents' marriage as a condition. Many courts allow contractual agreements between the unmarried partners to allocate property [Lee Marvin case]. You can will your property to your girlfriend if you die, etc etc. So what other rights are there that marriage gives?

Actually, quite a few signifcant ones. One major benefit is if a spouse dies, the law recognizes the relationship as conferring death/insurance or other benefits to the surviving partner. There is no similar right in "long term girlfriend" situations. If a partner gets in an accident, the law allows for "loss of consortium" to the surviving spouse but not to an unmarried partner. Although some states are beginning to move away from this law, this is still the general pattern.

Finally, the largest benefit of marriage is actually social and symbolic. It is a pronouncement to the community of your mutual commitment--it ties in to tradition and, to some, religious tradition.

Ask him if he could handle her being gone tomorrow.


My bestfriend's boyfriend of 7 years was going throught the same internal battle on the marriage issue ~ she got tired of him 'not being sure he wanted to be with her into old age' and left. He figured out real fast that he couldn't handle not having her by his side. It's been a year and he's getting more and more pathetic trying to get her back in his life. But oh well, too late.

Which illustrates another truth... oftentimes, regret burns more than doubt.

Women want marriage for security reasons. You should know that. :Graucho

But men have security issues, too. Of course, its "framed in a different way" but it is still based on security

I learned that the hard way too... U can't change the past. If you are wishy washy with a girl early on because she don't blow you the right way or whatever -- then U decide U like her more later... U're fucked. Now I tend to dive into relationships with a lot more optimism -- so if need be, looking back will be much nicer :) :drinkup

:Graucho

Yeah because once you look like a bag a bones -- u got to compete w/ the next Brad Pit look a like LOL

That's why you gotta make yourself blind then become a superhero... chicks love superheros -- even wrinkly old ones.

Good thing KimmyKim and Cheshire are here -- this thread is gay.