Programmers in adult biz
 

Some drama for the weekend.

So,

I was working on many custom coded websites, CMS, other things in this biz. Many of these things was looking really great from front-end interface and functionality. Everything was great, until I was looking into the sources...

Most, something like 95% of the code I have to work on, is written in totally non-professional way. Complete lack of structure organization, total mess, totally nonsense code. Seeing classes in the code is a big rarity, and when I see one, it's totally not considered. I never seen even simple inheritance. About things like design patterns I can only dream. People seems to don't know anything about data encapsulation. The same code is repeating in multiple files, it's just copy-pasted. Commenting code seems to be difficult too for many programmers. Last time I was working on one project, something like 4000 lines of code. How many comments? Not more than 50.

It happens even in big products, widely used in industry. I don't want to say names, but I was working on one big tube script, used on high traffic tubes. It was written completely in procedural style, no single class was spot. What the hell, we are still in 20th century? Object oriented programming was available from PHP4. We have now PHP5/5.3 with greatly improved OOP, but people are still coding in procedural way.

I often work on code that previous coder abandoned ("my previous programmer disappeared" situation). In my theory, their projects are just getting beyond them. Their lack of programming skills and/or lack of planning skills are making the project more and more difficult to further development.

Why you people are hiring such amateurs? Because they are cheap? It will not save your money. Maybe at the beginning you save a few hundreds dollars, but later you will have to pay thousands when the original programmer disappear, because the code will be too difficult to further development.

Also, I was wondering why there are so many amateur programmers. Some people are coding a good software, but it totally sucks from technical view. It is really so hard to buy a few books, learn about object oriented programming, software designing, design patterns, software engineering? It is really so hard, or people are really just so stupid?

I was working in past in mainstream company. The code had to be well documented, written using design patterns, well planned, the team had to use agile methods, use unit tests, make case studies, we was using UML to visualize things.
I moved here and here I earn a lot more money that in this company and other mainstream companies. But quality of the code here is a few times more worst. WTF?

For the end, some related humor:
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...15833637_n.jpg

are you serious?

u sure thats a fake?

lots shit code happen when hurry, lot programmer got broke, so hurry code happen more and money is so time you know hahahaha

http://i.imgur.com/sCr2v.jpg

I taught myself programing, server management, marketing, etc. I learn all expect of this business I know on my own. It is true that some codes are not properly written.

I find it to be very crazy that a large program is written in PHP without any single Class or function.

But as for the first response to your post. You see, most program owner are not too concern with the superb coding of their site, as long as the damn thing works they a are all about making some money.

But you have a point code should be done better else upgrades will be limited.

Are you working on NATS?

LOL

[QUOTE=cariflav;19103799] as long as the damn thing works they a are all about making some money.[/QUOTE]

that's the point. not impressing geek twits with your code. unless you want to get a job where the hiring manager is senior geek dick

unfortunetly it takes time and effort/reading studying to code things properly( which by then you can get things done quickly efficiently and re-use) , people want results YESTERDAY ...... and don't take the time to understand that

[QUOTE=2012;19103817]Couldn't have said it better myself.

Very true. But problems are becoming happening when the software must be extended to new features and it is becoming impossible.

So why people are working as programmers, when they are not yet capable to code things properly?
About these results by yesterday, it's not at all true. Many professionals have awareness that good product creation takes time. Remind how many situations there are, when programmers are missing deadlines or disappearing because they didn't had enough time to code a project. It's better to set a further deadline and deliver good working software in time, than put it closer and deliver shitty software or not deliver it at final.

Also, it's not about time. A good single professional programmer can deliver a better software in shorter time than a team of amateurs.
Were you even wonder why one programmer have $140/h rate and other $20/h ?
Because the first one can finish stuff in one hour, where the second one will finish it in 7 hours (or from a practical view, even more hours).

Get the fuck outta here, no one is perfect.

.............

show me one thread on GFY where someone is looking for a programmer that does not include the word "affordable" in any way. or "cheap".

i never cheap for you, on time all day, when I left one time. it was really not even good so , two hours yes you like, how I turn it to 14 hehehehe. see you soon ass monkey

perfection is the enemy of good enough.

fuckoff with that bullshit

It's not about being perfect. It's about being competent.

I consider our developers as real engineers, they are very very good, they respect the design pattern, they takes 60-70% of the time to think and plan properly, then the rest to do the code. It's a bit longer at the beginning and it's very scalable.

But before being on this side of the track, I've been on the other side. I got screwed by many developers, had to redo jobs which had cost in 6 figures, spent hundreds of thousands of dollars if not over a million.

So I understand those guys who are looking for cheap developers, and those who have been promised if they pay more at the beginning, they would save on the long run with scalability, which they are still searching where is the saving.

And honestly, I've hired a lot of developers since I'm in business, and I can easily say that 1 on 3 was not good. You seems to be a good coder kazymjir, just remember you're one on not much to be good.

And I forgot, there is a portion of people that are not educated. People that need development for a project, and gets 2 quotes at 10000$ and one at 30000$, it's quit hard to convince of the scalability. Even though we are in Montreal and have developers pretty expensive (but less than in the US), we're having hard time to make prospects to understand why it's more expensive than the guy in his basement, at the end the prospect still thinks he will get his product working...

Isn't it the basically same thing?, perfect job done meaning the competent person behind.
You are right in general but as someone say, as damn thing work who care about code...

I am programming all of my sites (9) and still consider myself as just little more then amateur but always learning. The time is the crucial factor for improvement but I must notice one other thing wich I can't explain to myself: SE treatment vs good and less good sites.

I saw to much websites with awfully code behind but with excelent SE position and vice versa. What do you think wich pattern will someone follow when it comes to coding?

good point . right on

maybe its because a lot of adult webmasters are young and want everything dirt cheap. they'll outsource for pennies if the can. Its rare to fine an adult webmaster willing to pay $35 - $50 an hour for clean, bug free documented coding. They want that $4-$8 "yes sir i can do that", coder. So you pretty much get what you pay for.

If you're paying a programming $500 for a project that should realistically cost $1500 or $2000, don't complain when its buggy cause they're just rushing through your project in order to complete the 2-4 other projects they're working on in order to pay bills and get through life.

i know think code fucked . lert tak to manager okay ?

And there are far better industries to earn a living in.


You see you know the problem. Now all you need to do is flash the cash to get the right people. :thumbsup

True Story. My Brother can program in machine code, he studied at college in the 70s. He used to work part time for a well known sponsor, building the CMS, sites, etc. The pay was poor and he found better work on Craigslist. So much better he dropped the porn industry and moved. Now programming a big job for a company in the Medical Industry.

Online porn largely paid big bucks to the affiliates, the rest they cut to the bone.

acctman :thumbsup

SOMP produces most of the code you are talking about. Programmers that use the SOMP methodology usual produce working code very rapidly but it often is not up to the SNOB methodology of programming standards in that it often produces straight line, right to the heart of the matter code.

SOMP programmers feel that a lot of internal documentation is unnecessary for several reasons:

1. It adds time to a project. As many SOMP studies have demonstrated. The time taken to develop a project can actually double bedause of ANAL documentation. This increases the time and therefore the cost of the project.

2. SOMP developers feel that any decent developer can read code and should be able to decipher what is going on. They do not feel that it is totally necessary to caption every "If...then...Else" statement with ridiculous paragraphs stating that they are going to now make a decision and take some action on the basis of that decision.

3. SOMP developers have found that it is in their best survival interests to produce commentless code because it is the common misconception of clients (usually being told this by SNOB developers) that commentless code is very hard to follow and therefore the client feels they need to stick with the original developer. This ensures that the original developer gets first shot at upgrades in the future.

SOMP developers often do not use many classes and some do not even use modules or developer designed functions. Often the code is just a straight line or loop. Start, do this, do this, do this, end. SOMP developers feel that many developers stress classes and modularity to excess and that SNOB programmers often waste time and effort building classes and modules for no other reason that they have bought into the dogma that object orientation solves everything and that if something is not built into classes then it is inherently wrong (25 years ago the same arguments were made by the then SNOB developers that everything had to use a relational structure or it was wrong).

Most SOMP developers can use classes, modules and functions as well as any other developers. They prefer to use the best tool, of the available tools, for the job at hand.

They go in. They do the job and they are done. They do not bullshit around worrying about whether they could have made it prettier. They do not worry about whether someone else will be able to follow them up. They are down and dirty, rapid fire developers.

Or at least that's what I've heard.


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what ? wtf did you heard, that you suck

I believe I was quite clear.


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you were. good work

Edited :Bitchiness removed. Uncalled for,

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Lol. You are confusing the hell out of me.

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happy days yeah .................

just seeing how things are going ... this and that

If it ain't broke don't fix it..