Kevin Smith On Why You Don't Have To Be Kevin Smith To Try Innovative New Things
 

I love Kevin Smith :)

I love Kevin Smith too! :thumbsup

Gideon Gallbladder is still a twat though!!! :) :winkwink:

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jesus just kill yourself already.

He has a point but doors are more open for him at this point.then the guy off the street. I think kevin doesnt have a spielberg type of command but i think the people that can make something would be open to meeting with him. Getting access is one of the hardest parts.

seriously access is one click away

it called kickstarter.com

crowd funding is an aggregation of fans period.

You don't need studio funding any more

If your a musician offered a deal post a 30 day kickstarter project and see if you match

I guarantee you will, why because the same formula that music industry uses to determine the signing bonus (reach you currently have) can be turned into cash for an upfront offer.

The same is true for movies, video games, board games etc.

The market place is there.

BTW kevin smith has opened up the distribution model he created for red state to independent film producers and he is just one fucking tweet away.

I'm not sure if you watched his show Comic Book Men that was on over the last few months, but in one of the episodes he made a very good point. Someone asked about whether a person could do what he did with Clerks today. He said yes, but that the dynamic has changed. Back when he did Clerks actually getting the movie made was the hard part because it was expensive to get the equipment then shoot and edit the movie etc. If you actually got your movie made getting into festivals and getting notices was much easier than actually making the movie. Now with technology you can almost shoot and edit your movie right on on your iPhone. Everyone with a few hundred dollars now has access to the technology to make a movie. So the hard part becomes getting through the glut of movies that are being made and setting yourself apart in a way that people notice so that your movie can get viewers and make money.

So you are dead on. Making a movie is one thing, but getting noticed is another.

your so wrong

it really easy to get notice

it just a longer game

you give away short stuff until people like your stuff enough to pay for it.


the methodology is simple

give away sample of ALL your ideas just make sure that it can expand into bigger if someone likes it and is willing to pay for it.

Wil wheaton did it




he did the one review for free, release it under CC-SA

and the fans spread it because they were allowed

until someone with the power decide it was worth while PAYING him to do those type of reviews for ALL the TNG episodes.



If what your doing is good quality, that people want to share because it good quality

It a simple three step process

1. produce the shit
2. release it under CC-SA
3. share it with your circle of friends.

There are tons of things you can do to improve expand that base (ppc, youtube optimization, seo, torrent optimization, etc) but if your shit is good , you don't need more than those 3 things.

If your shit sucks, there is no marketing crutch to prop you up.

But that marketing crutch doesn't really exist any more anyway

the warnings of john carter hit twitter 15 minutes after the movie pre-screened.

wil wheaton and kevin smith were made famous and household names by the old hollywood media system that you think should be destroyed by piracy.

their podcasts and such piggybacked off that success.

your theories and examples suck as usual.

You are and always have been the kind of nay sayer he's talking about.

yes and if you are artist yourself or know any you know cutting through the noise of all the cheaply produced content now is just as hard as getting a record or book deal in the pre-internet age.

ironically it usually still takes old and big media promotion like a story in the NYT or the rolling stone to break a DIY artist now.

jonathan coulton

Mike Tompkins

were all made by the mainstream media too.



oh and btw

wil wheaton started his process when his career was at an all time LOW


under 700 people showed up to his blog when he announced he was writing it.
No convention would hire him as a guest speaker.

His career was deader then a door nail at the time he started blogging.

read just a geek before opening your fucking mouth about shit you don't know.

you are the one making lazy delusional divorced from reality claims, not me.

i am totally aware of all the examples you use and their histories also how you deform them to fit your delusions so fuck off clown.

then why is the average income of artist going WAY up now.


here are some more examples of unknown artist succeed

http://money.futureofmusic.org/case-study-a/

and you can look at kickstarter to see tons of artist making huge advances without a record company

many of them just youtube stars.

Copyright protection only helps you if you have tons of money to hire lawyers to sue people.

without that base of cash all the copyright protection in the world is useless

so giving it up to get access to an army of fans who will "pay you" by promoting you is worth it.

If your shit is good, they will pay you after they consume your stuff simply to support you.

I didn't say it. Kevin Smith did. I happen to agree with him.

Yes, you can market your stuff, but getting to the point where you are very successful is not easy. It never has been. In the realm of movies 15-20 years ago one of the biggest obstacles was actually getting your film made because it was expensive and it took a decent amount of technical knowledge. If you actually got your move made there wasn't a whole lot of competition when it came to film festivals, distributor markets etc. That barrier is gone now. Now anyone with a few hundred dollars and a weekend to learn the software can make a movie. However, because of that the number of movies getting made that are competing for the audience has gone through the roof and distinguishing yourself among that crowd it not easy. It has just flipped. It used to be hard to make the movie and easier to get notice. Now it is easier to make the movie and harder to get noticed (at least get noticed to the point where you actually make some money and have success).

Then explain why kevin smith didn't earn 20k per speech when he started

Explain why wil wheaton only had 700 people show up to his blog when he started.


you claimed in the other thread that kevin smith only earned 20k because he was famous director.

Yet you still haven't explained why he didn't get that speaking fee in the begining.

If his directorial success was responsible for all of that fee, why didn't he get that when he started.

Why did he do all those gigs for free.

show me the exact quote

you have a habit of "paraphrasing" people to say the exact opposite of what they are saying (hell you have done it with me 113 times already)

hell you were the guy who used Kevin smith success with red state to support SOPA

EVEN though you KNEW that Kevin smith was explicitly opposed to it.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/p...%20caption.jpg

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seriously what lie did i tell

does kevin smith earn 20k for his speaking engagement

yes

did he earn 20k for his speaking engagements when he started

no

he even jokes about it on evening with kevin smith.

"if you want me to come out you have to at least pay me gas money"

"Here's 20 buck go away fat boy"


wil wheaton has more fans from non star trek stuff then he has from star trek

in fact many people who are star trek fans hate wil wheaton because he ruined the show for them.

sorry went back it was to discredit a complaint about hollywood accounting

a complaint that kevin smith made as well.

of course like all commonly shared definitions gideon makes up his own that is only accepted and used by himself.

he defines success as a band who made a couple grand from sharing their music on filelockers. not too many people share that definition of "success."

that is why it is pointless arguing with him. you need to at least share the same language to debate and discuss.

There you go again, making shit up, all just to justify/cover-up your sick gay infatuation/lust with Will Wheaton.

Let me simplify this for your pea brain:

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...One%20sock.jpg

:angrysoap

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For the record I never used Red State as an example of why SOPA should be passed. You are are smoking rock cocaine again. Please show me the exact quote where I said that.

As for what Kevin Smith says.

Here is the link to the podcast from the show. You can jump forward to about the 4:00 mark which is where he starts talking about what I mentioned above.


Here is what he says:

" I think it is easy to make a movie. The technology is democratized. They make cameras that anyone can use." Another guy holds up his iPhone and says, "You can make a movie on this." Kevin then says, "and you can edit a movie on that and upload it right to the internet. To make Clerks we had to rent equipment to make it, lights, a steambeck to edit it. All of that you can do right on that phone. So the technology is in closer reach for everyone to do it. The problem is with so many people doing it it it is tough to stand out because now the field is even wider with all the competition because it is open to everybody."

He goes on to talk more about Clerks, and how people are inspired by it. He also talks about how he actually encourages people to do podcasting instead of making movies because it is cheaper and easier to do.

Correct. I have debated with him on this before. It all depends on what your idea of success is. If success to you is recording and releasing a record and making enough money so that you don't starve to death while you go on a 2 month tour in your old van, you can easily do that on your own.

If success to you is making enough money to live on while doing music you might be able to do that on your own. Not many people pull that off, but there are some that do.

If success to you is selling out 10,000 seat arenas and having platinum records you are going to need some serious help that will almost always need to come in the form of a major record label.

Of course I am talking strictly about a new, unknown person, starting out. If you were previously famous you can strike out on your own and still have a lot of success.

so you just pull the same bullshit misrepresentation again.


no where in that quote does he say "getting into festivals and getting notices was much easier than actually making the movie"

or
" It used to be hard to make the movie and easier to get notice. Now it is easier to make the movie and harder to get noticed (at least get noticed to the point where you actually make some money and have success)."


Both those statements were a bald face lie.


because he didn't say that

in fact the shit you glossed over was making the point i was making about sharing and releasing

if you actually listened to the pod cast rather that short clip you quoted from

http://smodcast.com/channels/the-secret-stash/

you would realize how much shit your talking

hell that tv show is an example of the wil wheaton sharing strategy because it came out of this pod cast series

a pod cast series that ming chen and the guys uses to talk about crazy comic book stories on their podcast networks.

http://smodcast.com/channels/i-sell-comics/page/4/


the story about how comic book men got on the air, and why "losers" like ming chen became tv star is not only very funny but informative.

actually a couple of grand sharing it on filelockers

and $77,888 off kickstarter campaigns from the built up fan base

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...ing-without-me


When your clearing 80k in a month then you can talk.

Who's the Filipina chick with Kevin?

she is doing a 80k kickstarter every month? like i said. delusional.

You caught me. Send the feds to my house to arrest me. He says it is harder to get noticed. I added in the other stuff because getting into festivals is traditionally a good way to get your film noticed. He doesn't say so outright, but when he says "it is tough to stand out because now the field is even wider with all the competition because it is open to everybody" I assumed he meant it is tough to stand out in all fields including getting into festivals etc.

I also mentioned that he does go on to say that podcasting is easier to get started and it doesn't surprise me that he has used the fanbase he has generated from the podcast to help him with other things.

http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1468234477/image.jpg

http://static.someecards.com/someeca...7e41caf645.png

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She says herself in the description that she is budgeting $15K for the cost of creating the album and that any money beyond that will go to hiring a publicist and/or licensing company and going towards promoting the album.

So basically she is buying $77,888 dollars worth of lottery tickets and hoping that this release can build her up enough of a fan base that she can go forward and make money at a later time.

It isn't a bad idea and it is a hell of a lot better than spending $77,888 of her own money or borrowing that money or signing over her soul to a record label, but let's not pretend that she is putting that money in her pocket as a profit.

who said every month

I asked you to show me A month that you did that


that just one fucking month out of your entire career.


still waiting.

What the fuck does this have to do with reality? Big fat guy can't even see his own dick...

I don't have to be Kevin Smith to do something innovative. I just don't fucking feel like doing it.

Maybe if some failing American company would blindly hand over an eight fugure budget I, too, could preach to people on how cool it is to not be able to pull on my own socks.

It must be hard to be a liberal when corporations have paid for every fucking thing you've done.

Imagine - for one minute - being married to that fat piece of shit.

your arguments are fucking retarded. you know that?

seriously you are a moron

Do you really believe that a person who raised 77k doesn't know how to promote themselves on the internet

fuck moron buying cheap ppc traffic to file locker of her song would be promoting herself AND getting paid

If she used the process with the try it if you like it pay me what you think it worth she would be trading pennies for dollars all day long.

you think it a lottery ticket because you too stupid to succeed to that level yourself

and yet you still haven't shown us your 80k month yet.

Got a name?

I never said any of stuff you accusing me of. I simply pointed out that the money she is raising is going towards promoting the record in hopes of making money off of said record. Maybe she will do well and make hundreds of thousands of dollars. Maybe she won't. I don't know. You represented it like she had made $77K off of Kickstarter and that this money proved that she was cashing in on her internet fame. In reality that money is just a hope that she will be able to cash in on said fame to a larger degree.

I wish her well and hope she does it, but in reality making it in any entertainment field be it music, movies, art, writing or whatever is very difficult. This money will help her, but the odds of making it big and making hundreds of thousands if not millions from your work are so high you might as well buy a lottery ticket. She just has a few more tickets than some other people.

http://mpactphoto.com/wp-content/upl...ria_Quiban.jpg

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and like i said you think it a lottery because your to stupid to know how it works

It really not that hard

calculate your money per view on youtube/filelockers

buy views that are cheaper than that level

worst case senerio you break even (earn as much as you spend)

best case a tiny portion will like the content you given them for free and will pay you full price /part price for your shit.

Even the worst case your pocketing money Equal to what you got from the kickstarter campaign

best case your pocketing a shit load more.

Fine-looking Ilocana/Hawaiian nice:thumbsup

Like I said. . . it is a lottery ticket.

Assuming she has the worst case scenario as you present it (which likely is not as easy as you portray it) and she makes $77K off this record. After she pays her taxes she will have around $50K left. That is a nice chunk of cash. She lives in New York (according to her Kickstarter profile) so that $50K likely won't last her long. Even if she stretches it out over a year it is still just one year and now she has to worry about doing it again.

Assume she gets lucky and she makes 5 times that much. Great so she makes $350K. After taxes she will have around $225K. That is assuming she isn't paying an accountant, a lawyer or anything else. That is very good money. That puts her in the top 1% of earners in this country. Be honest. . .what are the odds of that happening? Even if it does happen what are the odds of it happening more than once because that $225K isn't going to last forever.

The overwhelming odds are that 5 years from now Julia will be doing something else for a living. That isn't a terrible tragedy. If she has some success (which in a way she already has) she has done more than most people will ever do in the music business. She can look back on the good memories and enjoy them. But the odds of her taking that $77K and turning it into something that can launch a career that can last for a very long time are very VERY low. Like I said, I hope she does it, but I am a realist. I worked for a record label for 3 years. 99% of bands/musicians fail in the long term. it is just how it works.

your artbitrage theory is so simplistic and leaves out so many variables that it shows that there is no way you have tested this irl.

this is kiddy internet marketing shit people come up with the first week the realize they can make money online.

i told you what to do for free

I get paid to tell you How to do it


That the fucking point of the model, give the non scarce away for free

sell the scarce at a huge premium.

or she could just repeat the process with again next year with a new album

of course that assuming as your doing that she sit on her ass for the remaining 11 months, instead of leveraging the new/existing fan base to make money from touring.

http://i.imgur.com/PTkVT.jpg





except that the signed recording artist needs to sell 7,000,000 dollars of albums to make that level given the current contracts.

and it no where close to the biggest it just happens to be one that fits the model i talked about

btw the short career issue is not as much of a problem for these "internet artist" because they don't have to sell so much shit to make the money they do.

I totally agree with what you're saying here...but I was wondering how it applies to you. You don't really make anything do you? But you're just saying that other people, who actually make things can try this stuff. I get it.

As I said above it all depends on what your definition of success is. If making enough money to survive and pay your bills is success then she has a shot at it. If success means making millions and having a long lasting career then the odds are against her.

According to your chart she will need to spend about 50% of her time doing live shows. That means traveling and being away from home for long periods of time. How much money would you personally need to make in order to justify being on the road away from your friends and family for 6 months out of the year? Hell, depending on the size of the crowd she might have to be on the road 10 months out of the year to make decent money. It is a life that gets old fast. Most bands I saw break up did so because the grind of going out to play live and promote themselves broke them down.

As I said before she seems to be in a position to make some money, but unless she gets lucky and is one of the few who strikes it big she will have to repeat this model over and over again and again year in and year out. How many good albums does she have in her? how long can she keep on the road 6 months out of the year before she finally says fuck it and gets a different job? How long does she grind it out without big success before she throws in the towel and moves on?

I'm not making this an argument of record label VS internet artist. I am just pointing out that the odds are very much against her and it seems that you refuse to admit that.

He claims that he teaches people how to do this for a fee. . . feel free to ask him for proof that he has ever thought anyone how to do this or that he has ever made a dime doing this. I'm sure he will be happy to show proof. Gideon is very good at backing up his claims with proof. :upsidedow

how the fuck did you get from a chart that documenting INCOME

maybe you should learn how to read data before your talking out of your ass.

That the percentage of income they make not the time they spend.


zoe keating has repeatedly talked about how family friendly her touring schedule is.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zo%C3%AB_Keating



the odds are against every single musician out there

the signed musician earns less then 7k per year

most have to get second jobs in the food industry to survive.

Your problem is that you discredit every success on this side of the equation as not being good enough.

a signed artist would have to sell $1,760,000 of music to match the success level of this girl. and all the artist who failed to do that will be forced to work for no money on their next 5 albums until they pay it back.