5% Reserve Fee? Epoch??
 

I am under the impression that iBill and CCBill return the reserve they hold for 6 months, then return it back to you. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Were you all aware that Epoch's reserve handling system is totally different? Here is the way it works:

They hold 5% of your net in reserve until the reserve amount is equal to one (1) month of gross processing, then they place your account on no reserve.

I will give you an example:

Say you average $100,000 per month in gross processing. That would equate to about $80,000 per month in net. So, they take out $4000 per month until they have $100,000 in reserve. This means that you don't get to see your $100,000 for 24 months. (100,000/4000 = 24). And that is if you stay consistently at $100,000. What if you grow 15% per month? I'm not going to bother with the math, because I don't know remember the formula for an exponential equation, to be honest, :), but you get the point. You will basically never see your reserve. They say they do a 6 month average in determing what one month gross is, but say a year later you're at $200,000 per month average. Basically, it will take a lot longer than 24 months to get to $200,000 in reserve.

This is total bullshit. Just think -- they pool all the reserve money in some conservative investment account at 10% per year, and make a killing for free, with your money, and they act like they're doing you a favor.

Oh, and if you never reach 1 month gross in reserve, you don't get your reserve back until 18 months after the last transaction with paycom.

I apologize for singling Epoch out if this is the case with all processors, but I am pretty sure the typical case is reserve returned after 6 months, which is fair.

I would really like to know other people's opinions about this, as well as their input.

if you're correct, not only is that a great plan, but it's fucked up too.

no I get back weekly reserve money from 6 months ago. I use ccbill

how do u think they pay for those private jets, new offices, trips, etc? interest they earn on your money. duh :)

I'm not understanding how 100k a month gross is equal to 80k a month net?

I dunno what epoch's fees are, but i'd guess around 15%, plus a 5% reserve equals 20%.

well say about 5% hold and about 13% billing fee is a bit over 80K

There are always credits. Gross is before credits and chargebacks. I just figure $20k would include processing fees and credits.

Yes one big thing we don't like about Epoch is all the money they have that we can never get. We were told we have to stop processing with them and then wait 18 months to get our money. =(

So everyone is ok with this????

Best advice I've heard all day.

So listen to them... otherwise you won't get shit!

apparently...

i say it's all about Globill

Actually from what I understand the plane does not belong to Epoch, that is personal property of Chris'. And I don't see them with any nicer offices than CCBill for instance, and they don't seem to take any more trips than anyone else.

At the end of the day if you don't like a processors structure or agreement, you have two choices --

1. negotiate with them into something agreeable
2. use someone else

thats cool. but u gotta wonder... where does all that interest money go? chris' salary, so he can buy a plane? hehehe

I think he had some money to start with ya know :)

I don't see what you're getting at.

Let's look at ibill or ccbill: you rake in 100K a month so that's 600K in 6 months. 15% (reserve) is about 90K. So if you're making 100K consistently, you always have 90K tied up in reserves with ibill or ccbill.

With Epoch, they charge 5% so in 6 months you just have 30K tied up with them. It will take you 18 months to make up a reserve that took you just 6 months to make with the other processors.

How is it any different other than the fact that you keep more of your money for longer. I think it's a pretty good deal really but what do I know ....

=RS=

No its 5% reserve

It's 5% with all processors. Pretty standard I think. So, $30k tied up after 6 months, but then you start to get it back, so if your sales stay consistent, you only have 30k tied up. With Epoch/paycom, you have to get to 100k in reserve to get it back, and that is assuming your sales stay consistent. If they grow, it's even more than 100k.

Month Sales Reserve Total Held Total Needed
1 100k 5k 5k 100k
2 110k 5.5k 10.5k 110k
3 120k 6k 16.5k 120k
4 130k 6.5k 23k 130k
5 140k 7k 30k 140k
6 150k 7.5k 37.5k 150k
7 160k 8k 45.5k 160k
8 170k 8.5k 54k 170k
9 180k 9k 63k 180k
10 190k 9.5k 72.5k 190k
11 200k 10k 82.5k 200k
12 210k 10.5k 93k 210k

This table isn't going to come out right, but you will prolly get the idea..... (The spaces aren't going to work)
etc
etc
etc
.... so when do you FINALLY get your reserve bacK? Kind of sucks, huh? Btw, total needed is how much you need in reserve in order for them to refund it. And just think how much they're making off YOUR money while they have it...... and what if you never get to the point where you have the total gross in reserve? What if you decide to cash out... well, guess what? You have to wait EIGHTEEN months from the date of your LAST transaction (and some people rebill for yrs) before you get your money.. so basically you might as well write it off.... you'll get it 5 yrs later or something :)

EscortBiz, my mistake ... ibill and ccbill take 10% reserve not 15% as I originally stated. At the end of the day you will ALWAYS have 60K reserve with ibill and ccbill (based on 100K Net)

It would take you one whole year to accrue 60K with Epoch at 5% (again based on 100K Net).

Epoch of course would continue to charge you the 5% till you have accumulated 100K (your average monthly Net) which would take approximately 20 months to get your accruals at 100K (based on your net being 100K per month again).

So I guess you do save with ibill and ccbill over Epoch, after the 6th month.

I bill with ibill and Epoch and if it came down to choosing just one processor, I would choose Epoch. I find Epoch to have superior customer support, superior marketing tools and are very webmaster friendly in that customers don't receive chargebacks without an inquiry. They run a tight ship these days and are obviously very enthusiatic about their business and where they want to take it.

I've not billed with ccbill but I hear they're quite good except for the high number of declines and the chargebacks. I have taken a peek at their password management/ reporting system and find it slow and it often doesn't load. They do however have a very loyal webmaster base so they must be doing something right.

=RS=

Its 5% at CCBill.

thats what i meant before

Like I said, I've never used ccbill, but i do use ibill and they reserve 10%

=RS=

If I ran a billing company I'd charge 500% holdback. Fuckers.

All:

EPOCH?s deal is as Donnie stated. It is what we consider to be fair and it is reality with OUR banking solution. Other companies are different. Not better, just different as far as reserves are concerned. If anyone has any specific questions about the agreement that they have signed, or one you may be interested in entering into, please call any of us here at EPOCH and we will be happy to answer any questions.

As for this idea of the reserves making us money; sorry to say we get nada. The bank gets the float. That is our deal with our bank. I don?t know about the other processors. And whoever said a ?conservative investment account making 10% a year?? I want to know with whom you are investing. The typical float revenue a bank receives is about 1.5% per year; Conservative returns nowadays are less than 4%.

Now, for the rest of it:

Offices are the same as for the last 3.5 years.
Trips? We go to shows. I hope that is OK.
And the plane?EPOCH does not own or lease any aircraft. Period.
As for Chris? salary and whatever else, well that is Chris? business.

Hope this clears the air.

C

Wait a minute, I know for a fact someone in your office got a new chair + a box on pens not too long ago, now that answers where the reserve is going to
:winkwink:

so process your own credit cards then????? duuuu

WHAT kind of Credit card processor are you? - no plane..... Jesus.... cheapskate..........

no class I tell ya, no class.....

Chris, can you explain to me why you hold the reserves for 18 months after the last the transaction?
My understanding is that the reserves are in case of chargebacks, which is understandable.
But Visa policy dictates a 6 month time limit for chargebacks.

Does Chris always refer to himself in the third person? :1orglaugh

brilliant! :rasta

man, this shit gets more and more like the music biz every day.

In an ideal world they do. In adult I've seen cb's come thru 9, 12, and longer months out :(

Kimmy is correct about the reserves.... sometimes they will come in a year later. The banks are all about whatever makes the consumer happy.

Mitch

It seems Visa USA policy is full of shit...

I regularly tell customers "Sorry, there's a 6 month time limit on disputing that transaction."

I love epoch.. they call me at night time to tuck me in.. they call me in the morning to say breakfast is ready.. They remind me that I left the bathroom light on after i took a leak.. they are just like a nagging wife that keeps shit in order.

EP4L


the reserve thing kinda sucks though, I agree... It wouldnt surprize me one bit that 'deal' they have with the bank they use is because of past issues a few years ago.. just my :2 cents:

you must have to sacrifice ALOT to come back after shit like that in the past.. but overall, my experience with epoch has been the best so far.

Hey you fuck, I thought I was the nagging wife in your life ;)

OK, OK, you caught me... I bought a box of pens, a clipboard and some paper clips. :Graucho
C

See KK and Mitch's posts. It is just the reality of the way banks treat High Risk Merchants.
C

No. Sometimes Chris refers to himself using the Royal "WE", as is... "We must fly ourselves in the jet to Monte Carlo to shop." :)

It's funny, I was thinking after I posted that earlier, "...why would I write in the 3rd Person?". We won't let that happen again. Shit, you can't get away with anything here.

C

Ummm Epoch KICKS ASS, gives webmasters all the tools they need to make money, provide kickass EZclick sales, they are the reason everyone is able to give out $35 signups, if they weren't around the signups would probably be a lot lower for a lot of programs.

Epoch take 5% who cares, if your making $100,000 a month are you really going to miss 4% for the year, you will eventually get it back anyways in the long run.

Oh and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me where to get 10% on a conservative bank account???????? PLEASE TELL ME.

Its not that big a deal, sure they make a bit more but they have to cover there own ass for charges and scammers.

They'd be lucky to get 4.0-4.5 % if there lucky. USA has such low rates.

Btw, Epoch have the best support out of any processor, they take 12 hours to setup 22 paysites for me with over 15 subaccounts with mutilple prices for each subaccount. yep 12 hours and i get a email back saying there you go sir anything else we can help with, we have logged in and installed our software and your ready to go. I was like "wtf you mean its all done already?" They are great and I recommend ANYONE to epochsystems.com

Oh PSWbilling too 2 days (very good too)
CCbill took 2 weeks (hounding them every couple of days)
(not impressed).