Content Question - What Do People Really Want ?
 

OK after some comments in another post I made, it's prompted me to post the question "What do People Really Want ?"

When I first started to shoot 10 years ago, my images and video were very amateur... as time went on and my skills improved so did my images, with new and more expensive equipement my work improved even more, including HD video...

However just recently I was told my work was "too good" which did make me chuckle, as I think we still shoot pretty average content compared to some of the shooters out there...

But what do people really want, or more to the point what do the surfers really want ? Do they want the super high end stuff or do they want the more amateur feel ? Do they want HD videos, or do they want SD... I always thought one of the big sellers was guys believing the girls were involved themselves, and not shot by a production company or pro tog...

More and more I see nowadays is pro shot, realy high quality... have people moved away from the amateur looking stuff ? Just looking for some discussion on the matter :)

Depends on the niche.

Solo. Its lousier photography. However people want hotter girls. Hotter girls don't usually jump at the opportunity when you shoot lousy photography though.

The thing about that though, as a photographer gets more experienced, he will shoot better and he will always refuse to go backwards and even if he tried to go backwards, he most likely couldn't, because it's hard to fake being bad and shoot amateur after you've leaned more and more into shooting better and better stuff

Its human nature to want to get better and better at something and even if it hurts sales, photographers continue to do it. Mainly because alot of time, they care about reputation, and having it seen by many potential future clients, etc. - Nevermind the fact that they aren't usually involved in ownership and could care less about sales as much as reputation

Art - Very high end

Hardcore, theres a market for amateur. But I think theres a bigger market for very well shot. Sometimes an untapped market is better than the bigger market

So yeah, depends on the niche and what market you want to hit.

I want POO....

I like poo !

Yep
 

Very good post and makes loads of sense...

I shot for a program once, and they asked me to shoot real amateur looking stuff, no studio lights, just the camera's own built in flash... I hated it, took forever to shoot... and results looked crap to me... needless to say they loved it lol...

I dont mind ajusting my style to be fair, but agree it's not easy to shoot bad content when you've moved forward as a tog... :winkwink:

No !
 

You are so never getting invited around for a cup of tea !

I shoot for the market regardless of status. it was put to me like this: you want to be a bro on an internet forum or make money?

I've shot really raw and amateur content and I've shot really pretty, well produced content. I continually make much more money with the raw content. In fact, the more raw and realistic it looks, the more money it makes. That said, I still make money on the nice stuff, so there is a market for both. One just does better than the other for me.

There is an ass for every seat.

I started out shooting real amateur content. Then I got my first DVD deal and they wanted it better and better, so that's what we did. Everything was upgraded and we tried to compete with the look of LA DVDs. Then I was told something along the lines of, "you don't shoot like you used to, check out these sites_____________, this is what's selling now." And of course, those sites were all amateur sites.

These days I shoot what I want to shoot. There is a place for it, whatever it is I may shoot.

very true HOWEVER how large is the place... that's the real question... sell 400K or sell 25... as a shooter I tend to think of high end as carefully managed photography. meaning EVERY pixel in the frame is considered and monitored.

usually only see that in fetish or mainstream. a perfect example was posted the other day of 'supposed' high end yet 'unmanaged photography'

there are a few other shooters here supposedly shooting high end yet with some of the very same issues...

Ok...
 

Thanks guys, all making sense and kind of what I thought, just nice to have some re inforcement to those ideas :thumbsup

Do you view yourself more as a content provider or more as a photographer?
People are fickle, different targets like different things and tastes change. Seems as if you are or are becoming more of the latter so just do things the way you want to do them, keep evolving, and hope that your passion is communicated via your work.

That's interesting because it seems like there aren't very many true photographers on GFY. Mainly just bros who know how to work a camera, chase a paycheck, and provide dime a dozen content with no defined style.

I consider high end to be more of style thing than a technical thing.

If you start feeling even just a little bit like how Rothko felt when doing the Seagrams murals, there's probably no turning back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Ro...tic_commission

It's impossible to say what "people" or "surfers" want because there's no such thing as a collective mind or brain. Individuals are all different and want different things. There's no one-size-fits-all approach. Certain groups of individuals will prefer similar things. Hence the existence of different niches.

Also take into account that people could mean different things when they tell you your content is too good or too professional.

Personally, I hate scripted and edited scenes, but I love details, I love HD. So while I hate the "professional acting", I love professional image quality.

It's a never ending question.

Some want cheap they will take anything if the price is right. Good luck making a living with that end.

Some don't mind paying if it's very good. Good luck producing that end unless you're very skilled.

The porn consumer wants it real. Now if you can produce that for their price then good on you. I never really bothered with video here, because the girls who could speak English and did hardcore were few when we came here. And many of them just put on a very bad act.

If you can make an amateur movie with people who look like they're having more fun doing it than the people watching. Look like they would shag anyone for the price of a pizza or swingers and a person the viewer is likely to meet. Then you have it.

On the other hand if you can produce the same reality in a Met Art style. You really have it made.

Producing amateur like everyone else does, puts you in a very saturated market. So price is often the governing factor.

Anyone can buy a HD camera and lighting isn't a science today. Get good quality free standing mics and shoot in an environment where people are not making a noise, recently reviewed a site where there were noises off camera all the time. Annoying and put me off stroking.

The art of pornography is what's in front of the camera not the camera. Also about your relationship with the model. You work as a team, you in charge, and her your co-pilot.

BM Bradley. There's no one here shooting high end. Unless your high end isn't mine. High end is Marc Dorcel, ANDREW BLAKE and a few DVD producers like Digital Dreams. On budgets that online simply can't afford. Even with the budget, I don't see many who can produce that here. Including me.

I'm a photographer and I was a photographer way before I was a content provider however I do not get them confused :2 cents:

it's both, look at terry richards...

kink.com, ken marcus, dennys defransico etc...

I think a problem many in the content business make is that amateur=crap and that's not always the case. I think when people say amateur they mean fresh "real" women like their neighbor next door kind of thing. Look at the screw my wife series, which has decent lighting, camera work, etc but the women come off as very amateur and that's what many are looking for. :pimp

I get 2 trypes of feed back, either the video/images are to small or to big...the people on the old computers with slow connections want small/non HD stuff.. and the people on high end computers with large monitors (or in some cases TV) want the largest, highest defination stuff they can get

That's cool. Sorry if it appeared as if I was directing that comment at you as you seem cool. I'm honestly just really fed up with the whole cliquish content provider group here and their constant whining about piracy.

I find it interesting that a couple of people have said things contrasting "good" content with looking "real" or similar. Can you do a great job shooting realistic photos?

Hey Jimmy...
 

I definetly am not a "photographer" in it's truest sense... I did Photography as school, but that was more on a hobby level... so never done any proper training, to this day am real hazy on things like lighting and white balance... and that's after 10 years of doing this lol :error

I started shooting for content to put on my own sites... I still run a couple small programs... so I am definetly more a content provider, for both myself and some other people...

I think one of the first lessons I learnt early on, is not just to shoot stuff you like yourself, it is easier obviously to shoot something you enjoy and find sexy... but that's not to say something else wont work for some one else (even through I would draw the line at shooting guys, sorry gay community it's not for me)

I guess like the kind of girl we shoot, it also can factor in other things too... a prime example would be "FAKE TITS" we dont really shoot fakies, on our site www.TrashyContent.com (shamless plug) we dont have a package with girls with fake tits... yet we do have some amazing girls with fake boobs in the UK, and I am sure there would be a market for them if we shot them...

And of course the same applies with the more amateur looking content, it's something I guess we moved past, but I agree there is definetly a market for it... ex gf/amateur style stuff is definetly "HOT" at the moment... even though I did the think the ex gf stuff was mainly stolen content off MYSPACE lol :winkwink:

no problem, I shoot for members and clients. not GFY. and piracy is affecting sales for sure :winkwink:

what it all comes down too in reality is marketing your product and serving a segment of that market. the best thing is to find an undeserved market and move in that direction.

what I see frequently on this forum is very marketable product bashed because it doesn't fit the narrow interest of the forum members.

I want anything with more girls than guys. The more girls, the better. Reverse gangbangs are the ultimate male fantasy.

spend some time with these content models and that will go away :2 cents:

I'm not denying the impact that piracy has had on sales but so have a variety of other factors which I may or may not address in another thread at some point today. We'll see. Depends on my mood.:thumbsup

By any chance, do you recognize this screencap?

http://i.imgur.com/W0LkL.jpg

nope......

Nice thread very good points guys.




You got to be new to this business or something to make that statement. No disrespect.

Just about everyone here knows or knows of each other, their work and their reputation. Good or bad.

People around here get work based on there skills, experience, reputation and knowledge of the niche being shot. Not because they post a lot or know the right people.


If you are good or even a competent photog or camera man you will always find work.:2 cents:



:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh
I would assume thats what all content shooters do.:thumbsup

i have my very own opinion on all this...

but let's say: i am very happy that we do both - custom content and the shop

You are right on there. The gfy norm is teens, or...older girls made to look like teens...almost anything out side of that and the people here thnk its a bust. You all would be very surprised on what other markets can do, what you think may be a small market usually is lots larger then you think it is.

same here, I had to learn because I could not find the content from providers that I needed, but I did takes clases with some local photographers who give classes on lighting and such. I finally broke down and bought profoto lights and a profoto ring light, white balance before every shoot and light meter everytime I move the lights...the profo lights are super nice. Camera I use is a canon 5D Mk 2

only the ones still in business, that and integrity. integrity has been weeding out the creepy shooters for some time now :2 cents:

quality and amateur are two completely different terms. your content can be high quality but still have an amateur feel. i think a lot of people enjoy unscripted stuff. just look at how popular reality tv is now.

actually reality TV is heavily scripted behind the scenes, and by the choices of the 'stars' as well

true, they can't even get that right! i've seen a few reality shows start out pretty good and then they start over producing them and screw it up.

Girls from Russia
 

from my point of view the web needs more nice and NEW Models, but these girls are not so easy to catch in the days of worldwide Internet. In Russia many nice girls waiting for work, so i am looking for corporations to shoot them outside Russia. Feel free to contact me.

I'm really trying to step up the grade, especially with lighting. New cameras shall come in time.

I always think, amateur professional to professional content is better than amateur homemade content.
I don't think it's too important to have edited content, with cuts, if the action continues through the scene. However, I don't like camera clicks & photos taken while content is filmed, it's damn annoying, either the flash or noise can really put a guy off doing what he's doing :thumbsup