A full recovery won't occur until at least 2030
 

Dayum..... 2030?!?!

FULL ARTICLE

someone said it was busy at an olive garden, can't be true.

Id believe it, but its because of the greed of the banks and those brokers.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh go there on a Sunday and it gets busy

the baby boomers have wrecked everything. No surprise the bounce will happen when they die. :2 cents:

I don't believe it will take us until 2030 to recover, but people don't seem to understand how bad this is. We haven't seen this since the 1930s. I know dozens of people who have lost their homes.

In my opinion - The Economy is correcting itself after a WILD housing bubble / lending bubble that offered anyone with a pulse more money than they could ever repay.

Combine that with "living on Plastic" lifestyles and the sense of entitlement that everyone had the God given right to live far beyond their means ...

I watched all of it over the last 10 years going " how can these people make $100k combined with 3 kids under 10 years old, have new high cars, a $650k house, great clothes and go on 3 vacations a year? "

All the while I made $125k a year, had a $100k house, no Credit cards / loans and paid cash for everything ... which now allows me to have a $500k home and STILL no loans, credit cards and only debt is utilities ....

Income has doubled thanks to my IT biz doing very well in the Corporate space. Alllowed me to splurge and pad the bank account for rainy days :)

How about it will never recover? At least not "recover" back into what people remember. You said that yourself in another thread regarding software developers -- people in 2nd and 3rd world countries are under cutting developers in 1st world countries. Well, same goes for everyone and every industry.

Come-on Barefootsies that's funny :1orglaugh

True dat. Survival of the fittest.
:pimp

This is what happens when you bail out companies. It prolongs the crash and recovery. We would have had a depression but would have been well on the way to a recovery now. Now we have decades of mediocre economies.

It will never "recover". The economies we have had for the last 30+ years were an illusion, based on flawed business models, living off capital and loans, bubbles, and low-value consumption.

We americans have been living a lie for decades, and that lie is still crumbling underneath us.

It may transform into another type of economy which is not on life support, which is actually working well and growing without bubbles, but that seems unlikely by 2030.

smash the banks and make a real productive economy that actually produces shit.

Oh, I forgot to mention, the deferred tax increases made law by the republicans and the centrists. Those deferred tax increases are coming due right now, as we debate the debt ceiling. And we will be paying off the tax increases of the republicans for decades.

Our economies have not been paying their own costs for a long time. We've been having a party on deferred costs, capital, and loans.

You need to cut the military AND pentagon spending by 90%, eliminate many of the tax loop holes so those who should pay 35% actually ARE paying 35%, and then raise certain taxes on carbon energy. That alone would force change(s), while lowering the deficit.

It's hard to imagine 12+ years ago that Clinton had a government budge surplus, and since then, we are on the brink of collapse as a country financially. Fucking unreal.
:disgust

sure am glad we have enough money to attack more countries, have to have our priorities
Hey green techology is going to save us!!!!!
















</sarcasm>

:disgust

Is that true or creative accounting?

.

Not sure I understand this - tax increases bring revenue in - how is that a bad thing when you are paying off huge debt?

Creative accounting. Just like the dems did in my state. The governor ran for re-election based on the "fact" that we had this huge surplus. Well once the reps took control of the houses, they looked at the books and the "fact" was we were deep in the hole.

This is not a left/right problem, this is a big government problem. If the government was not so big, Bush could not have caused the economy to crash like he did (I dont think he single-handedly did it it took decades to come to a head) . Something totally missed by big government advocates.

They were defered payment tax increases - we got the benefits of the tax increase, but defered paying it off.

It has to be paid off sometime.

That tax increase is the national debt, which has grown by trillions while we enjoyed the illusory economy of the last 30 years.

And which has to have it's legal ceiling increased, or, we have to pay it off, and we don't have the money or the economy that can pay that bill.

That sounds like a possible plan altho 90% military cut in unrealistic, even tho as a libertarian I am philosophically oppsed to empire and wars of adventure, I recognize our empire has consequences, and if we cut 90% the blowback would be dangerous.

But 50%, sure.

The simple truth is there is no easy solution. What we did these last 30 years under republican and centrist (that is, neocon and neolib) rule ALSO has consequences.

What is coming is going to hurt like hell.

The fact is we can not tax our way out of this. We need drastic cuts with small tax increase. The cuts in the government will actually promote growth in the private sector and the economy would get rolling again.

To think we can tax and spend our way out of this is insanity. Like a big wall street friend of mine a big time democrat, who vote for Obama said, "This guy has no fucking clue what he is doing"

Just to make sure "defered tax increase" is understood correctly:

The reoublicans actually raised taxes every time they claimed to lower them these last 30 years.

What they did was lower tax collections, while keeping spending the same or increasing it dramatically.

Then they borrowed money to cover the gap.

The centrists (Clinton and Obama) did much the same. Clinton's appearance of budget success was an illusion, based on bubbles and the beginning of "free trade", with it's early benefits and deferred costs, just as Bush the lesser appeared to benefit for a while because of the war bubble, the lending bubble, and the housing bubble.

When you lower collections, and borrow the money that would have been collected, you have RAISED taxes, because the borowed money has to be paid back with interest.

It's a defered tax increase. You get the benefit of tax increases but pay for them later. And whoever loaned the country money gets to skim cream off the top.

End the Fed.

No need to argue "A" points guys and girls.
THE point is that the economy is scripted by the parasitical elite.
Keep talking about more taxation on the slaves and cuts in spending; Won't solve one thing. :2 cents:
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I think it could be easily done.

First of all...we don't need to occupy Germany anymore. We won that war back in 1945.

Same with Japan.

And then the more than ONE HUNDRED FIFTY other countries we have troops deployed in!

People don't realize that we have troops in over 150 countries! Could you imagine if another country had troops in OUR nation?

We ain't always "the good guys"

Let's leave other countries alone and stop invading them and taking them over. It isn't making us any money. It ain't like the ancient times where we plunder all the gold and take all the women.
No, it just costs hundreds of billions of taxpayer money.

Bring all the troops home. And let us KEEP our own damn money. Fuck the govt. They will always find ways to spend more and more money since they don't earn it. They just TAKE it from us.

I didn't say it wasn't technically possible.

It's not politically or economically or strategically realistic.

The war/terror bubble is one of the last Bush era bubbles still working. Politicians won't touch it.

In other words, our leaders failed us.

our current economic situation can be blamed on only one thing... BANKS...

the banks fleeced our entire nation by creating the biggest bubble we have ever seen...

they used the deregulation of both republican and democrat administrations to make money when the housing market was going up and made a killing when the market collapsed..

it still amazes me that less then a handful went to jail when the big bank CEO's made trillions on the backs of stupid american blue collar workers...





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Germany has a history of aggression in Europe but we aren't really there because of that, we are there because of the Russians.

We are in Japan due to the ongoing Godzilla threat which our combined forces have yet to effectively counter. It's going to be some time before that happens.

I agree with your sentiment however and I really don't think we need bases all over the world.

Heh-heh the Godzilla threat is something to worry about.

I was watching Bill Maher a few months ago and he said something about Germany like this:
We need to have our troops in Germany just in case the Soviet Union attacks in 1950
:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Somebody else posted this in another gfy thread but it applies here.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43236764

link blatantly stolen from this thread: https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1024990

thanks, good explanation :)

The great irony and great tragedy of the last 3 decades is that the american people have been too dumb and too frightened to do 5th grade math.

We let the republicans lie to us about lowering taxes without ever doing the arithmetic.

The media is partly to blame, but we americans were ultimately responsible, we will pay the bills, not the media corporations or the retired and dead politicians.

We did this to ourselves.

I can't blame the republicans - it's their mandate to lie to us. Same with the democrats. We, the people, mandated that they lie.

I'll be 39 then if i don't die.

the idea of resetting the world's economy makes sense to me - here is one thing that is true, we are the same people, the same population size,the same skills and education, the same infrastructure, that we were BEFORE the economic crisis. so what happened - we know what happened and why. All debt, foreign, national, corporate, personal/mortgage needs to be re-negotiated for the good of all. Fuck the banks, fuck Wall Street, all those who raped the economy under the noses of irresponsible politicians and their appointees. Those hundreds of thousands of homes with under water mortgages - fuck the banks, the house is worth half the value, the value of the mortgage should be cut in half. US owes billions to China, what's China going to do about it, attack militarily to collect it? Renegotiate all the debt all over the world.

If you divide the US debt by the number of households it's a staggering amount that each household owes - it's ludicrous because other than the wealthy no household could come close to paying its share of the national debt. It just keeps getting passed on to the next generation, it can never be paid off - if living within your means you don't spend a dime more than you take in - wow, people would revolt because the standard of living would be so low for the vast majority of people.

Healthcare costs are out of control and will continue to grow and grow as the baby boomers age, I don't think you need socialized medicine - what you need is to put wage and price controls on that industry, the government wouldn't run the system, all it would do is regulate the costs/profits - it is too important an industry to be treated like other industries. It's the tail that wags the dog of the economy. Fuck that, people are supposed to go into healthcare/medicine because they want to help people, not to get filthy rich. Drug companies lobby and blackmail all of us with this bogus argument about how much money goes into research and testing a new drug and that justifies insane amounts of money we all pay for drugs. It's bullshit, call their bluff, there will still be plenty of drugs developed, good drugs not bullshit drugs like Ritalin and half the anti-depressants on the market which exist because the drug companies and the doctors manufacture diseases and diagnosies(sp?) together they know have the potential for obscene profits.

Think Dr. Banting and Dr. Best who discovered insulin were looking to become billionaires?

was thinking the same thing. it will never "work itself out."

That's probably the only realistic solution.

End the Fed

Bill8 ..... excellent post.

I guess being stupid to the point of not understanding when and why to walk away is how you wind up $200,000 underwater in the first place.

With disregard for the constitution, there's no guidelines to make things work.

They didn't fail you, they purposely sold you out and continue to do so :2 cents: