?*Tradeshows- ROI- webmasters / programs*?
 

How are you measuring ROI on your marketing efforts?

How long does it take you to recoup your investment on a tradeshow? How do the tradeshows compare for you???

If you could see immediate ROI would you attend / sponsor / shows again?

How many shows is the right amount for an industry?

If you had one single show that you would attend, which one would it be?

Webmasters- If it was free would you go?

Programs - Would you pay to sponsor webmasters if you were gauranteed traffic?

Follow up questions for webmasters- If you were paid to go- all expenses (would you attend? Based on traffic and qualifation.

I think when the vegas show was the only one.....it was absolutely the best....definitely too many shows especially for the amount of consolidation going on in this biz....

3 shows per year imho......vegas, phoenix, miami

in my opinion 2 american and 1 european show per year are enough. Phoenix Forum and Webmaster Access Amsterdam plus maybe one Internext. but only if the prices are re-considered - for advertisers and attendees. i have witnessed about a week ago how you can do a very successful webmaster meeting for $40 per person - all drinks and food included. this industry has to realize that the times of unlimited money are over - thousands of dollars for some button somewhere on a website or a small ad in a magazine that no one reads won't cut it anymore. :2 cents:

True dat.... great answers ..... would like AS much feedback as possible.

3 is close... I think 4 North American and 1 Europe / 1 Asia / would be perfect - INternet specific of course.

2nd Follow up queston- Booths.

At our Adult Novelty Expo (100% B2B) we have over 150 booths. Do you think a return of oldschool business ethics is in order... Booths, etc?? If done correctly and booths had traffic.

Anyone working on Monday????

i've been around for ever -
but i think the idea of putting a show in a wonderful hotel like the W
makes it harder for the average webmaster to be able to attend
you have hotel,food, pass, airfare and most important time out of pocket

yes it is like a working vacation
but a mid-priced hotel
and smaller pass price might make it easier for the sponsors to actually see more affiliates and potential affiliates

i personally loved the speed networking
and the classes/seminars

We need one show with booths, even if small once. From some one who sells technology this is the most effective way. The cabana stuff does not work.

One show a month is sufficient.

i have plan to make ROI 1000% , we will see how will work :D

When you say "webmasters" you mean affiliates or just program owners?

you know...

i remember the 1st internext i went to.. the cost of the tickets were.. i think.. 125 a pop? if that? and the place was a fucking mad house.

then i, like a lot of people watched 2 things continue to happen. the costs to rise, and the amount in attendance decline.

and now of course with the most talked about word in in the past 5 years (economy) being where it is, i really think that it might be "biting the hand that feeds you" type deal.

rumor i heard was this show you had at best 400 people there.. i think back to when there was 400 people in line on day one just to get a badge... i also remember when every sponsor, no matter how small (remember the likewhoa booth that was a couch?) had to have a spot at internext. had 2! i also remember when there were so many run of the mill webmasters covering the floor that sponsors had crowds of people waiting to talk to in front of booths.

seems now all you have is booth a talking to booth b about a cross sale deal.


i honestly think that you guys way over pushed the costs.. i really do.. and ive been saying that for years now.. (on this topic me and someone else laughed as we both showed up a day or 2 early and were at the pool drinking drinks, then the show started and the drink prices went up 30%)

then the economy tanked on top of it, and people wonder why there is only 400 people at what was once the largest show of the year.

so.... you cut out the little guy from going, trying to make as much as you could selling tickets, and that in turn has cut out the people who want to advertise to those little guys as they are not there, so they are gone 2.

you should consider revamping the entire system to work with what you have to deal with today.

but thatll never happen, and you can say it might, or you can say well look into it.. but lets face the facts here.. the only reason you guys are even compelled to put these shows together is to make as much money as you possibly can.

/rant.

So how did you like the show? See you next year :thumbsup

Sorry Chris, far from the intention to "Jack" you thread :thumbsup

Jay you should look at our event QWEBEC EXPO coming up at the end of the month then :) You can have a complete 10x10 booth for only $1000 :)

Ok now we're back to our regular programing.


From my POV, I think every show have something unique to offer. Don't forget that every one have a natural regional market, North-East being ours... If there would be 4 Internet B2B shows in let say North-West, or any other specific region, then yes there would be too many shows... from my POV of course :)

I like going to the shows and meeting people. Even though I am a self sufficient enigma and do not need cross deals from others to make a good living. I shoot my own stuff. Generate my own traffic. Doing everything in house.

Florida was nice because I had gotten to finally put some names with faces, as well as talk to the live chat, mobile, and cam guys I wanted. Plus hang out with old friends for a nice weekend away.

That said, 1 show every 2 months would be enough. That should allow for U.S., Canada, and International shows. As for U.S. shows, it seems most people want one huge show like the Miami, Phoenix, Los Angeles, and Vegas shows to be the 4.

I did San Fran (just for you BD) and enjoyed it. It had a nice turn out, all of the seminars were PACKED and you had some awesome information and conversations there. Which is what business is all about. The networking.

That said, I agree. Way too many shows when you have lowering attendance and people becoming more selective of the conferences they go to now. Some big names were missing from Miami I would have liked to talk to.

:disgust

Ok, damnit, I didn't know you were at Miami. I would have loved to sit down and chatted with you. Next time.

Move it to October and I'll be there. 100 degrees and 100% humidity just doesn't work.

I thought the show was great. Great to meet you Chris.

For me, 1 big show a year would be enough. Since I live so fucken far away (Australia). I just can't stand the 17 hour flight from Sydney to LA - It kills me.

I think there are more than a handful of different business models out there so not everyone will have the same take, but as someone who works primarily with subscription based sites I view the main objective of having a booth to be new affiliate / webmaster acquisition.

For a B to B show, which seems to be where things are headed, a booth wouldn't benefit my companies as much, but if I were a company like - say Iporn for example- who is looking for advertising dollars from other businesses, having a booth and a strong presence at a B2B geared show makes much more sense.

I still get value out of attending shows like Internext putting in some face time with the people I do business with who are normally scattered throughout the country, or even world for that matter. As an attendee- setting up a few meetings, putting a few deals in place and staying in contact to make sure things get implemented I can expect to see a return in 1 to 3 months. Also face time isn't as much of a branding exercise, and since it's direct contact the return is easily trackable.

On the badge price feedback tip, in speaking with some people trying to get some new blood into the game, the $300 bar for entry was raised a little high. I'm sure I'm not the only one who reached into their wallet to get someone to attend. I don't feel cheaper tickets is the total answer, but I think the cheaper tickets are the more webmasters would consider attending, and possibly the more tickets sponsor programs would be interested in handing out. Also bringing back the webmasters for my business model gives me a justification to bring back the booth.

That being said, I did enjoy the show. I got alot of work done but also was able to work in a little play time which was a nice change for me.

This time a year it seems like we have wayyyy too many shows all bunched up.

We have 4 alone in august. 5 in September and 4 in October.

All decent shows aswell....

but personally I feel that the shows are more about putting a face to a name rather then worrying about how fast you will make your money back.

I stick to one a year now.

I think someone I was having dinner with Friday night summed things up best: "The shows to me are like high-school reunions; that's why I go".

That's not to say business can't still be done nor shows still profitable. I'll use Mojohost as an example as I believe they will have a TON of new customers after this show. They offered something different and interesting (their data centre tours), they were very well attended and as an incentive, they offered the show badge to those who went. Just my guess but including the badge they probably spent $350 a head (badge, transportation, refreshments, food) and I think they will see a nice ROI regardless. That's the kind of model others should follow.

Paying $20K for banners around the hotel just isn't worth it to me, especially for already established companies. They are much better served putting that money to something with more of an individual touch, such as dinners or unique events. Some people think if a program has been a top advertiser for shows for years and suddenly stop and do something else, their program must be hurting these days. I would just think they are spending their money smarter.

From an affiliate point of view, the few who did attend and who I spoke with shared that the only reason they were there was because they were invited with their expenses paid. They would never pay badge + room + airfare out of their own pocket anymore for a show where as an affiliate, they don't need to attend other than to meet some people they work with or for the parties. With the decline in parties, they see even less reason to go. Since it's very few sponsors who are inviting their affiliates out (and they have valid reason; why risk him meeting other programs who sway him away from you, while he's there on your dime!), that's why you see much less affiliates at shows than you used to.

The day we stopped advertising at shows was the day attendance starting going down, yet to combat this, the show organizers decided prices for both attendees and sponsors should increase. That's simply backwards logic and short-term thinking and until it changes expect many companies to agree with me.

There's my ultra-long two cents :)

This is so true! and the best reason to attened.

And your not even in adult -:thumbsup

Your badge is comped in Vegas.

Oh, I did want to add one more thing:

The Westin staff, once again this year, were extremely friendly which is a nice change from many other venues. Most other hotels would tell us to go to bed instead of bringing us a fresh tray of beers to the pool at 7am and hot, pressed bath robes :thumbsup

How are you measuring ROI on your marketing efforts?
Depending on what you would consider ROI. I personally did enough biz at internext where my overall cost to attend has been recuperated and that is without doing my follow ups. Anything generated through my follow ups will be profit.

How long does it take you to recoup your investment on a tradeshow? How do the tradeshows compare for you???
I personally prefer trade shows that are industry only events. Phoenix and FL show are my 2 favorite shows in the year. As much as I love Las Vegas I find that attending shows there tend to side track people to do other things aside from business which does not make those shows as productive. And there is nothing worse than talking to someone at the bar for 5mins only to discover that they are a tourist and are not in the industry. (especially after buying them a drink! LOL)


If you could see immediate ROI would you attend / sponsor / shows again?
DUH! LOL YES :)

How many shows is the right amount for an industry?
I am happy to attend 1 show every 2-3 months but I include consumer shows in that number so realistically that is say 3 B2B shows a year.

If you had one single show that you would attend, which one would it be?
Phoenix forum, lunch is included, snack shack is a blessing especially for early morning coffee and late night snacking and being that the entire hotel is booked keeps the affair intimate.

Webmasters- If it was free would you go?
Phoenix was once a free show to attend and when that was the case there was a huge turn out. There is still a huge turn out for that show but the affiliate niche of attendees definitely thinned out. If badges to a show were free it would be more likely that the event hotel would be sold out and overall attendance would be greater.

Programs - Would you pay to sponsor webmasters if you were gauranteed traffic?
Yes! I was bull shitting with someone earlier this year about offering a promotional campaign to all their affiliates. The concept was if you send X amount of sign ups you would get an all inclusive trip to a show. These are the kinds of things that are desperately needed however with the overall cost of shows these days it would require a much larger amount of sales to make it of value for any affiliate program to pay for their affiliates to attend.

My 2 cents about internext this past weekend....
The show appeared to have less attendance than previous years however it was extremely productive for me. I met lots of new people, seen lots of old ones and managed to accomplish what it was that I set out to do as well as much more.
Overall experience - 9/10 :thumbsup (I dropped a number cos I am holding the show coordinators responsible for my tremendous hang over on Saturday morning! lol)

For starters, all travel for me (and any of you) that is work related, is a tax deduction. So if Uncle Sam isn't getting that money, right there is my ROI.

But, if you want to get specific about it, there is no way to tell what it is. I've had ONE deal cash me out enough to cover any show, in any part of the world, for the next 3 years. I've also had deals that ended up hardly covering my expenses. There is just no way to know until you are back and do follow ups with the people you have met, most of which usually don't pan out.

What I will say for shows is, it helps solidify your current relationships. Yes, you can talk on the phone and ICQ, but actually going out with them for any amount of time, helps keep things running.

I am no longer a show goer, as I am booked solid for years to come with work, but I did go last Jan to AVN and Internext to meet a few guys from here, and hang out with the people I currently work with. The few guys I did meet, business may come later from that, but I know that I WOULD work with them if there was something that we could both profit from later. So in that sense, it was more like planting a potential seed.

With all that said, during times when I was looking for work, I will get on a plane and fly anywhere in the world, at any time, to ink a big deal. The same goes for the people I do business with. I've flown across the world for deals and they have flown to me. I've flown from city to city for a few HOURS and the same as been done for me. A deal is a deal and those who know the value of that deal, will do whatever they can, ASAP, to dry that ink.

Shows... ehhhh... they are what they are, but I don't believe you need them to make your business grow. My biggest deals never came from shows in the 11 years I've been doing this.

But if you want to know, how much do I have to get in return to lock down a deal that will make me 10s of 1000s or even 100k+ over some time? I will spend what I have to spend that is equal to what I will get in return. I know what I'm worth and what my content is worth, so I pay and expect the return accordingly.

Was already offered to go all expenses paid by a couple companies, but I turned them down.

Jo I cant read purple :mad:

There are WAAAAAY too many as is. I'd say 2 or 3 max.

The biggest one, where ever that was.

That shouldn't matter. If you can't afford to go, you shouldn't be getting into the business.

No way. Too many liars and scammers out there who promise the world and deliver shit.

Generally we don't see ROI till 90 days, anything past that is a loss. This past show we will see in 30.

See above.


This was the case with earlier shows circa 2000.

2 domestic, 1 International.

AVN Las Vegas show (internet), with a very close second, TPF.


As a former affiliate, the answer to this is always yes barring cost of travel, room, etc.

This is also a yes.

I've been to internext Las Vegas 3 times and everytime there is less webmasters and more and more content shooters and program reps. I find alot of program reps got thier job with thier company from a job interview and never had to make sales to support themselves.

I've also heard so much stupid shit come out of the mouths of presenters at seminars that I rarely if ever attend those anymore.

Basically for me Internext Vegas is a good winter get away and a chance to party but I know alot of webmasters who could care less about going to shows anymore.

I've paid $200, $300 and $150 to go to internext, it should cost about $50 and then charge cover at the parties. Every night I left the internext parties and ended up going to different parties on the strip.

Finally if you want more web masters to show up have MORE GIRLS!!! These are porn conventions and last year's internext it looked more like an accountant trade show!

I am:winkwink:

I used to love going to all the shows, all the way back to when the adult Vegas show was a room in (I think) the Sands during CES. They were fun.

As my business evolved to being more an internet business, the shows were great for meeting people who could really push traffic to SpookyCash. And they were fun.

Over time, however, I think a lot of the affiliates were made to feel like second class citizens at shows. There started being too many a la carte features where someone could pay a few hundred dollars for badges and still not be invited to the main networking events. That is not particularly fun and the ROI doesn't work for either affiliates or program owners.

Add to that industry consolidation and shrinkage, with so many people leaving the industry and so many fewer companies and it is hard to feel like shows are as worthwhile when the odds of meeting any new traffic whales are so reduced.

Choice of hotel is probably difficult for anyone trying to throw a show. I know that I have trouble feeling like doing business (or staying) in a low end hotel, but a hotel I'd want to stay in is going to be a more notable budget issue.

I just kind of did the math and decided that the ROI on fundamentally $9,000 worth of beer was not that great and the shows were no longer fun enough for me to justify them partly on that basis.

i think you are wrong here. everyone starts small and attending a show can give also small guys a push and help them to understand the business better. plus learning from others, meeting program owners etc bla bla - you know it.

i think the barrier to attend a show should be much lower. and i don't just mean moneywise, but also considering the attitude of many participants. i read from many small webmasters here over the years that they are more or less afraid to go to shows and i'd blame champagne pics, coke adventures and flying chairs (just a few samples).

that serious business can be done - also for small guys - is very often overshadowed by all the debauchery threads after a show.

I'm not sure if there is a way to do this with internet side, but i saw it work VERY well on DVD side.

Chris you are probably aware of Expomark. But for those who aren’t ...

It is a DVD show that only the studios pay to go. Then all the buyers are brought in for free. It is 3 days and you have meetings ever 30 min. A pager notifies you of the end of the meeting, 5 min to travel to the next meeting. No matter how big or small everyone is forced to meet with everyone. Even if you don't like each other (in that case you pretty much sit there in silence or just do the "hey i showed up ... we have nothing to talk about .. see ya!" or in a few rare instances work out your differences)

Being forced to see if there is a way 2 entities can do business is a great idea. I dreaded the idea at first, but quickly loved it. Expomark was responsible for getting the best of the best buyers there, with suggestions from the studios as well. The show attendees were offered breakfast and lunch together. The meetings ran from 9:30 to 5:30 (with a few breaks and lunch thrown in there). Then from that point on some had special dinners, some have special events, some just hung at the hotel bar together. This allowed for the “fun time” to get to know people as well. We were given a questionnaire filled out by every buyer a week before the show. It let you know all their contact info, what products they were most interested in, etc. I was able to create a meeting agenda for each person caters to their needs.

Granted the attendance is MUCH smaller than Internext, but I think a modified version of this COULD work. It would allow every program face time with every webmaster/traffic source. Sometimes 15 min of face time so you can follow up later is all you need. That may never happen if people don’t happen to randomly meet and are unaware of each other. Hypothetically you could do this from Noon to 5 each day out by the pool. Make the meetings 25 min, 5 min “travel time”. Make people sign up to do it. And MAKE SURE IT’S A RESTRICTED area since people don’t always abide by the “Don’t bother people while they appear to be in a meeting just to say hi!! rule”

Few other random points:

-I also suggest doing away with SO many seminars … there really are very few needed.

-I also think WAY to many shows are around!! I think 3-4 is more than enough! Just make sure the 3-4 are killer shows, work within peoples budgets and that there is CLEVER marketing options for sponsors.

-CAN ANYONE HERE TELL ME WHO SPONSORED THE BAR AT INTERNEXT LAST YEAR (doesn’t count if you’re the sponsor)? CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHAT 5 COMPANIES SPONSORED SOME PARTY AT PHOENIX FORUM? You get my point … The sponsorship opportunities need to have a major overhaul … and that is NOT Internext specific.

Great post Megan!

I love seeing everyone at tradeshows don't get me wrong- but after 12 yrs of doing this show I passed-

I am also glad cause for 2257safe.com there is no ROI to fly to FLA to have a bunch of program owners who are NOT familiar with the law tell me they are in Canada so 2257 doesn't apply to them.

WRONG- all US based webmasters need copies of 2257 from their sponsors. Period.

Also at $20/ month on the low end I'd much rather put out marketing money into Google Ads and Yahoo...

Just my two cents

Here is a great review of the AVN show- lol

http://www.lukeisback.com/?p=8125