Epoch Cash Flow Problems?

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  • nevermind
    Confirmed User
    • Feb 2003
    • 276

    #1

    Epoch Cash Flow Problems?

    Dear Valued Client:

    As you may be aware, MasterCard fined Paycom $1.5 million several weeks ago. Our bank held funds from subsequent settlement proceeds at that time. Paycom has no plans to pass these fines through to you, as our portfolio was not out of compliance nor should we have been subject to a fine under any MasterCard Fine Program.

    As you may also be aware, Paycom has filed a lawsuit in Federal court here in Los Angeles against MasterCard for the above and many other issues related to MasterCard's unfair dealings with Paycom.

    The $1.5 million fine and the cost of litigation has strained our cash flow. As a result, we must adjust payment days from Tuesdays to Fridays, beginning next week. Payments due today, Tuesday, June 10th are being made today. Payments due next week, on the 17th will be made on Friday, June 20th, a delay of 72 hours. Payments to Resellers will not be affected and Resellers will continue to be paid on Tuesday's. We are projecting that we will be able to return to Tuesday payments as circumstances change. We are not projecting any further delays, nor do we believe that any additional fines should be levied.

    Paycom fully understand that delays in payments are problematic to our clients and a reminder of situations in Paycom's past. You can be assured that those days are gone. This issue is related to the MasterCard fine and the costs associated with the lawsuit. Over the past 3 years we have worked diligently to regain your confidence in our ability to pay you on time, or to keep you informed before a delay. This is one of those times that we all dread; yet it is unavoidable. We want to give you as much notice as possible about this delay, albeit only 72 hours.

    Clay, Joel and I are asking for your continued support, confidence and loyalty to us and to Paycom. We are working hard and fighting hard for our mutual success.

    Thank you,

    Chris Mallick
    Chief Executive Officer

    --The Team at Epoch
  • Gary
    Confirmed User
    • Aug 2001
    • 6110

    #2
    interesting

    Up to 35$ per join...!

    Comment

    • juicylinks
      So Fucking Banned
      • Apr 2001
      • 122992

      #3

      Comment

      • Martin
        "Assassins"
        • Dec 2001
        • 17274

        #4
        Damn!

        Comment

        • chowda
          Confirmed User
          • Jun 2003
          • 9527

          #5
          cash flow? who are u Robert kiyosaki?
          Someone finds you...
          2007

          PS: Nationalnet is the best host I've ever had. And i tried alot of them.

          Comment

          • sexyavs
            Confirmed User
            • Feb 2002
            • 615

            #6
            Well Im sure if they passed on the fines we are all supposed to pay, there would be 2 days late...

            Heck Im fine with it..

            Keep fighting it epoch..


            Chris
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            • mpegposter
              Confirmed User
              • Dec 2002
              • 483

              #7
              Yep just got that also. You try litigating a multi billion dollar a year business (that's just their PROFIT margins) and take million dollar aribitrary fines and see how it goes.
              The voice of the Moral Minority.

              New Sponsor Converting Like Hell!

              Comment

              • optikalz
                Confirmed User
                • Dec 2001
                • 555

                #8
                Originally posted by chowda
                cash flow? who are u Robert kiyosaki?

                Kiyosaki's kinda suspect. He made most, if not all, of his money not from any business success arising from his advice but from the sales of his book.

                Comment

                • gothweb
                  Confirmed User
                  • Jun 2002
                  • 8849

                  #9
                  I saw the first two words of this thread and got nervous...

                  Photos by Ian X.: Distinctive photos of goth babes.
                  Blood Money:Your traffic, my sites, our money.
                  MojoHost: Still the best.

                  Comment

                  • foe
                    Confirmed User
                    • May 2002
                    • 5246

                    #10
                    another one bytes the dust

                    Comment

                    • Jason
                      Confirmed User
                      • Dec 2002
                      • 4287

                      #11
                      Originally posted by foe
                      another one bytes the dust

                      Get a clue.
                      I stay busy.

                      Comment

                      • nevermind
                        Confirmed User
                        • Feb 2003
                        • 276

                        #12
                        A very good friend of mine is an antitrust lawyer, and he says that antitrust cases are extremely expensive to litigate -- even more so than regular lawsuits --- and very difficult to prove.

                        I'm not surprized that they're not passing on the fines to webmasters because, their lawsuit states that in some cases, they can't pass on the fines even if they wanted to.
                        Last edited by nevermind; 06-10-2003, 03:51 PM.

                        Comment

                        • chowda
                          Confirmed User
                          • Jun 2003
                          • 9527

                          #13
                          Originally posted by linkyd



                          Kiyosaki's kinda suspect. He made most, if not all, of his money not from any business success arising from his advice but from the sales of his book.

                          he made money telling ppl how to get rich.

                          and he maybe did one or two real estate deals
                          Someone finds you...
                          2007

                          PS: Nationalnet is the best host I've ever had. And i tried alot of them.

                          Comment

                          • EscortBiz
                            Fuck Checks, CASH only!
                            • May 2002
                            • 19422

                            #14
                            I dont use them but the fact that

                            a) they annonce a payment delay in advance

                            b) its a small delay

                            I wouldnt worry

                            The one thing that all companies that went bust had in commom was they had "no communication" if you use a company and you get no communications and there is a problem run as fast as you can.

                            I remember one even bullshitted they had a gag order LMAO

                            Good luck epoch with the lawsuit
                            Last edited by EscortBiz; 06-10-2003, 03:52 PM.

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                            • Kimmykim
                              bitchslapping zebras!!!!!
                              • Jun 2001
                              • 16015

                              #15
                              Originally posted by nevermind
                              A very good friend of mine is an antitrust lawyer, and he says that antitrust cases are extremely expensive to litigate -- even more so than regular lawsuits --- and very hard to prove.
                              Wow, I'm sure your lawyer friend is more capable than the attorneys that have been retained by Paycom! ROFLMAO.

                              sexyavs, very true. I believe I read that another processor had passed on more than a million dollars in fines to a single account, not something that happened in this case.

                              Comment

                              • dig420
                                Confirmed User
                                • May 2001
                                • 9240

                                #16
                                I'm sticking with Epoch, they've always come thru tough times in the past with flying colors and they're smart enough to keep the boat afloat.

                                Comment

                                • JFK
                                  FUBAR the ORIGINATOR
                                  • Jan 2002
                                  • 67369

                                  #17
                                  Good for them , they are here informing people instead of hiding.A lot of other companys should take note!

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                                  • nevermind
                                    Confirmed User
                                    • Feb 2003
                                    • 276

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Kimmykim


                                    Wow, I'm sure your lawyer friend is more capable than the attorneys that have been retained by Paycom! ROFLMAO.

                                    Actually, my friend is very capable.

                                    He won a billion dollar antitrust case for the state of California.

                                    But it took ten years. Hence my comment about the expense.

                                    Comment

                                    • EscortBiz
                                      Fuck Checks, CASH only!
                                      • May 2002
                                      • 19422

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by nevermind


                                      Actually, my friend is very capable.

                                      He won a billion dollar antitrust case for the state of California.

                                      But it took ten years. Hence my comment about the expense.
                                      hook me up I want to file a lawsuit over that tiny frozen pizza scam

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                                      • Triple 6
                                        Confirmed User
                                        • Feb 2002
                                        • 5394

                                        #20
                                        fuck epoch. maybe they are getting fined cuz how they dick their customers around? hmmmm i jus dont know.
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                                        • Processing Princess
                                          Confirmed User
                                          • Aug 2002
                                          • 175

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by dig420
                                          I'm sticking with Epoch, they've always come thru tough times in the past with flying colors and they're smart enough to keep the boat afloat.
                                          Thanks to you and everyone for your support.

                                          C
                                          -- Isabel
                                          icq# 151180901
                                          [email protected]

                                          Comment

                                          • nevermind
                                            Confirmed User
                                            • Feb 2003
                                            • 276

                                            #22
                                            Antitrust cases are very difficult to prove (not to mention expensive) because you have to convince the court that a different marketplace would exist without the alleged monopoly, in this case Mastercard.

                                            So it's not like a regular court case where you gather evidence about WHAT happened and prove that to the court.

                                            In an antitrust case you have to try to prove what WOULD happen if Mastercard wasn't around, but there's no hard evidence because it's all theory --- not documented facts that happened in the past.

                                            Not to say it can't be done, but it's much more difficult and expensive.

                                            Comment

                                            • Kimmykim
                                              bitchslapping zebras!!!!!
                                              • Jun 2001
                                              • 16015

                                              #23
                                              LOL nevermind, I'll give you credit, you just love to pick at anything you think might be a sore. I'm amazed that your friend the lawyer stuck with a suit for ten years, since most lawsuits are settled well in advance of ten years, what's the case about, I'd like to have a look at it?

                                              Comment

                                              • tony299
                                                lurker
                                                • Aug 2002
                                                • 57021

                                                #24
                                                Say what you want about ibill but they pay on time. lol

                                                Comment

                                                • Triple 6
                                                  Confirmed User
                                                  • Feb 2002
                                                  • 5394

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by Processing Princess


                                                  Thanks to you and everyone for your support.

                                                  C
                                                  Speaking of 'support', whats with epochs? When I had a problem, and Chris requested I sent him more information so he can look over it, I never hear from him again. Not in the thread I initiated, nor any response to the fucking ELEVEN emails of information I sent.


                                                  So.... what did you guys get fined for? Running a broke ass billing cancellation system? No? Well that would have been my guess ;)
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                                                  • Serge_Oprano
                                                    So Fucking Banned
                                                    • Feb 2002
                                                    • 9820

                                                    #26
                                                    Epoch,
                                                    you are doing it wrong!!!

                                                    you should:
                                                    1) be quite about it
                                                    2) don't answer phone calls
                                                    3) get to the bank in the middle of the nite and withdraw all the money they hold
                                                    4) change your name to LikeEpoch!
                                                    ;-))))

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Kimmykim
                                                      bitchslapping zebras!!!!!
                                                      • Jun 2001
                                                      • 16015

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by Triple 6
                                                      So.... what did you guys get fined for? Running a POS billing cancellation system? No? Well that would have been my guess ;)
                                                      Interesting, I guess you missed the part where IBill and Jettis have said they were fined as well?

                                                      Get your head out of the sand and keep up with current events.

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Anthony_A
                                                        Confirmed User
                                                        • Feb 2003
                                                        • 1219

                                                        #28
                                                        No Kimmy, he was busy paying his 350 bucks to ACPays to worry about reading that other ppl were fined too.
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                                                        ICQ 21239908

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                                                        • Jason
                                                          Confirmed User
                                                          • Dec 2002
                                                          • 4287

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by Anthony_A
                                                          No Kimmy, he was busy paying his 350 bucks to ACPays to worry about reading that other ppl were fined too.
                                                          I stay busy.

                                                          Comment

                                                          • nevermind
                                                            Confirmed User
                                                            • Feb 2003
                                                            • 276

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by Kimmykim
                                                            LOL nevermind, I'll give you credit, you just love to pick at anything you think might be a sore. I'm amazed that your friend the lawyer stuck with a suit for ten years, since most lawsuits are settled well in advance of ten years, what's the case about, I'd like to have a look at it?
                                                            Kimmy, believe it or not, I wasn't trying to "pick at anything."

                                                            I believe the Epoch notice mentions lawsuit expense, and I was just pointing out that antitrust lawsuits are particularly expensive.

                                                            I don't have a link handy, but the case was a well-publicized lawsuit involving both the state of California and the city of Long Beach against the oil companies.

                                                            They had to prove that the oil companies were manipulating oil prices through a pipeline that they all controlled, making the prices appear artificially lower so they could pay lower royalties on state and city lands.

                                                            It was a difficult, lengthy case because you had to show that the prices would actually be higher, but there was no hard evidence to that effect. Hence the typical difficulty with antitrust cases.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • sexyavs
                                                              Confirmed User
                                                              • Feb 2002
                                                              • 615

                                                              #31
                                                              Hey Porn Dollar

                                                              I like your program..


                                                              You guys take opt in emails?

                                                              Chris
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                                                              • Triple 6
                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                • Feb 2002
                                                                • 5394

                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by Kimmykim


                                                                Interesting, I guess you missed the part where IBill and Jettis have said they were fined as well?

                                                                Get your head out of the sand and keep up with current events.
                                                                Ok, I dont have all the details why all the others were fined. So the fuck what. I still think Paycom is a POS company. They fuck me over by tacking on shit I didnt agree to purchase, they fuck me over by NOT cancelling those purchases that I chose to cancel and got confirmation emails saying they were 'cancelled', and then Chris M. for ignoring the information he requested and not ever getting back to me. But you know all this already.

                                                                Thats my beef with Paycom, Martha. I don't use IBill or Jettis and could care less what the fuck they were fined for.

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                                                                • nevermind
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • Feb 2003
                                                                  • 276

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Originally posted by Triple 6


                                                                  So.... what did you guys get fined for? Running a broke ass billing cancellation system? No? Well that would have been my guess ;)
                                                                  If you read their lawsuit, they were basically fined for two things:

                                                                  1) Going over Mastercard's 1 percent chargeback threshold.

                                                                  2) Issuing too many refunds "in lieu" of chargebacks which, Mastercard claims, violates their rules.

                                                                  If your chargebacks are more than .5 percent, and your refunds also exceed .5 percent, Mastercard starts counting refunds as chargebacks.

                                                                  Obviously Epoch is disputing all of this in their lawsuit and says Mastercard is treating them unfairly.

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • Triple 6
                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                    • Feb 2002
                                                                    • 5394

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by nevermind


                                                                    If you read their lawsuit, they were basically fined for two things:

                                                                    1) Going over Mastercard's 1 percent chargeback threshold.

                                                                    2) Issuing too many refunds "in lieu" of chargebacks which, Mastercard claims, violates their rules.

                                                                    If your chargebacks are more than .5 percent, and your refunds also exceed .5 percent, Mastercard starts counting refunds as chargebacks.

                                                                    Obviously Epoch is disputing all of this in their lawsuit and says Mastercard is treating them unfairly.

                                                                    Thanks for the info... Well I guess my 'guess' was sort of right. Broke ass billing system would pretty much provoke chargebacks. I mean, damn, when I click "CANCEL", and I get an email that says it was 'cancelled'... I would expect that it was cancelled. Or am I asking too much?
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                                                                    • Elephant_Gut
                                                                      Registered User
                                                                      • Oct 2002
                                                                      • 70

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Well hopefully Epoch makes it through okay and can resume their regular payments. But I dunno. Not a good sign...

                                                                      I also find it ironic about all the negative posts against Verotel and Glo-bill recently, mostly rumor mongering. My Verotel and Glo-bill checks continue to arrive on time, like clockwork, knock on wood. Meanwhile, iBill, Epoch and Jettis all get fined up the wazoo and now Epoch is having 'cashflow' problems.

                                                                      But Visa and Mastercard are the real villains here. They are using their God-like powers to just single out and stomp on an enitre industry. Screw 'em!



                                                                      Elephant Gut
                                                                      Yes I got a big Gut
                                                                      Now Screw off!

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • directfiesta
                                                                        Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                        • Oct 2002
                                                                        • 30157

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Originally posted by nevermind




                                                                        If your chargebacks are more than .5 percent, and your refunds also exceed .5 percent, Mastercard starts counting refunds as chargebacks.

                                                                        Wonder if this applies to " non-adult" accounts also....

                                                                        I am not a customer of Epoch, but if I was, I would appreciate the thruthfull and no bs approach ...

                                                                        I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

                                                                        But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • nevermind
                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                          • Feb 2003
                                                                          • 276

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Originally posted by Triple 6


                                                                          Thanks for the info... Well I guess my 'guess' was sort of right. Broke ass billing system would pretty much provoke chargebacks. I mean, damn, when I click "CANCEL", and I get an email that says it was 'cancelled'... I would expect that it was cancelled. Or am I asking too much?
                                                                          Well, I have to agree, if that's what happened. And I do agree with Kimmy that the fine problem has happened to all of the IPSPs and other processors.

                                                                          BUT, I think the real problem is the following: How does an IPSP make money with only a 15 percent or less fee? Huge volume.

                                                                          Which means the IPSP has to listen to their big clients and become partners with them. The big guys want the sleazy billing tactics because they make more money with it in the short run.

                                                                          And the IPSPs go along because they make more money too.

                                                                          The problem is that it pisses off Mastercard et. al., and getting in line with Mastercard loses you a ton of money. Compliance is very expensive.

                                                                          So the IPSPs tend to blow it off until they're fined to death and, by then, it's too late and Mastercard is threatening to cut them off.

                                                                          The bottom line is that the financial incentives create a conflict of interest of sorts.
                                                                          Last edited by nevermind; 06-10-2003, 04:52 PM.

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • FATPad
                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                            • Oct 2001
                                                                            • 6693

                                                                            #38
                                                                            Originally posted by EscortBiz


                                                                            hook me up I want to file a lawsuit over that tiny frozen pizza scam

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                                                                            People who buy pizza in a bag deserve what they get.
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                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • optikalz
                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                              • Dec 2001
                                                                              • 555

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Originally posted by chowda



                                                                              he made money telling ppl how to get rich.

                                                                              and he maybe did one or two real estate deals
                                                                              Exactly. One one of his books, I believe it is Rich Dad Poor Dad, he takes the isolated and highly unusual situation of buying real estate for super dirt cheap and flipping it.

                                                                              His books are inspiration...just keep it at that level. But for concrete steps on how to become rich, that's up to your own imagination and ability to exploit opportunities.

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • Jason
                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                • Dec 2002
                                                                                • 4287

                                                                                #40
                                                                                Originally posted by sexyavs
                                                                                Hey Porn Dollar

                                                                                I like your program..


                                                                                You guys take opt in emails?

                                                                                Chris
                                                                                Let's discuss. http://porndollar.com/support.html
                                                                                I stay busy.

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • nevermind
                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                  • Feb 2003
                                                                                  • 276

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Originally posted by Elephant_Gut

                                                                                  But Visa and Mastercard are the real villains here. They are using their God-like powers to just single out and stomp on an enitre industry. Screw 'em!

                                                                                  For crying out loud. When will you people wake the fuck up and realize some fundamentals of good business practice.

                                                                                  Visa and Mastercard make their money by protecting the consumer. If they protect the consumer, the customer uses their cards more and they make more money.

                                                                                  The online porn industry makes its money by screwing the consumer. Visa and Mastercard have said to hell with that.

                                                                                  You don't screw Visa and Mastercard. THEY SCREW YOU.

                                                                                  Get in line with their rules or get out of biz. Period.

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • FATPad
                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                    • Oct 2001
                                                                                    • 6693

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Originally posted by nevermind


                                                                                    For crying out loud. When will you people wake the fuck up and realize some fundamentals of good business practice.

                                                                                    Visa and Mastercard make their money by protecting the consumer. If they protect the consumer, the customer uses their cards more and they make more money.

                                                                                    The online porn industry makes its money by screwing the consumer. Visa and Mastercard have said to hell with that.

                                                                                    You don't screw Visa and Mastercard. THEY SCREW YOU.

                                                                                    Get in line with their rules or get out of biz. Period.
                                                                                    I agree with that for the most part. I've always thought that.

                                                                                    But did you read the actual complaint Epoch filed?

                                                                                    There's stuff MC was doing that isn't right and it didn't have to do with protecting their cardholders.
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                                                                                    • nevermind
                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                      • Feb 2003
                                                                                      • 276

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Originally posted by FATPad
                                                                                      I agree with that for the most part. I've always thought that.

                                                                                      But did you read the actual complaint Epoch filed?

                                                                                      There's stuff MC was doing that isn't right and it didn't have to do with protecting their cardholders.
                                                                                      Like what?

                                                                                      I read it, and would be interested in what you are referring to.

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • FATPad
                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                        • Oct 2001
                                                                                        • 6693

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        Originally posted by nevermind


                                                                                        Like what?

                                                                                        I read it, and would be interested in what you are referring to.
                                                                                        When the card database was hacked and 13 million numbers were compromised. MC refused to provide anyone with the #'s so sales involving those cards could be refused.

                                                                                        You can't say you're going to allow chargebacks for stolen cards, and refuse to supply a list of known cards that could be compromised.

                                                                                        I'll go look through the whole thing again. Mastercard spies are such pains. :P
                                                                                        <a href="http://www.adultcontent.co.uk">Adult Content UK - Great British Content</a>

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                                                                                        • sextoyking
                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                          • Dec 2001
                                                                                          • 6034

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          You shouldn't have to pay a fine and go over your 1% because of returns and credits to a customer(s) Credit cards.

                                                                                          It's a catch 22. Cancel and credit a card, or get a CB, same response from MC
                                                                                          ICQ: 52344098
                                                                                          --------------------------------------
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                                                                                          • nevermind
                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                            • Feb 2003
                                                                                            • 276

                                                                                            #46
                                                                                            Originally posted by FATPad
                                                                                            When the card database was hacked and 13 million numbers were compromised. MC refused to provide anyone with the #'s so sales involving those cards could be refused.

                                                                                            You can't say you're going to allow chargebacks for stolen cards, and refuse to supply a list of known cards that could be compromised.

                                                                                            I'll go look through the whole thing again. Mastercard spies are such pains. :P
                                                                                            Well, that's a good point.

                                                                                            But remember that the hacked database wasn't discovered until February of 2003. (p.13)

                                                                                            By then, Epoch had completely screwed up their relationship with Mastercard after falling out of compliance for a good part of 2001-2002.

                                                                                            It's not crazy to assume that they wouldn't want to hand over a database of stolen credit cards to a company that had repeatedly violated their rules in the past.

                                                                                            Maybe it was a matter of trust ... or lack thereof.
                                                                                            Last edited by nevermind; 06-10-2003, 05:25 PM.

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • FATPad
                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                              • Oct 2001
                                                                                              • 6693

                                                                                              #47
                                                                                              Maybe. But it's not very fair either. If MC was so unhappy with Epoch they should have terminated the relationship instead of setting Epoch and other processors up to accept stolen cards then nailing them with fines for accepting stolen cards.

                                                                                              I also don't think that MC should be forced to change it's business model. The TicketMaster example was good.

                                                                                              MC is saying Ticketmaster can operate one way in that they merely sell access to a venue, but is at the same time saying Epoch cannot do the same.

                                                                                              I know that Epoch needs to do some sort of control and remove shitty sites that deliver shit and leave the consumer feeling ripped off leading to excessive credits and chargebacks, but they shouldn't be forced to change their entire business structure.
                                                                                              <a href="http://www.adultcontent.co.uk">Adult Content UK - Great British Content</a>

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                                                                                              • FATPad
                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                • Oct 2001
                                                                                                • 6693

                                                                                                #48
                                                                                                Charging higher transaction fees and such and claiming the higher rates are necessary due to the fact that internet merchants are more prone to fraud, then making online merchants bear ALL the cost of the fraud is pretty weak, too. ;)

                                                                                                I'm not saying MC and VISA are evil or anything. I do agree that they are looking out for their cardholders and a good portion of why they do things is because of what the adult industry used to allow...but some of the stuff MC did was wrong.
                                                                                                <a href="http://www.adultcontent.co.uk">Adult Content UK - Great British Content</a>

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                                                                                                • Mr.Fiction
                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                  • Feb 2002
                                                                                                  • 9484

                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                  At least they're letting people know what's going on.

                                                                                                  Hopefully they will win their lawsuit and make the CC companies make some positive changes.
                                                                                                  Don't be lazy, protect free speech: ACLU | Free Speech Coalition | EFF | IMPA

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                                                                                                  • wonton
                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                    • Apr 2002
                                                                                                    • 802

                                                                                                    #50
                                                                                                    Originally posted by Elephant_Gut
                                                                                                    Well hopefully Epoch makes it through okay and can resume their regular payments. But I dunno. Not a good sign...

                                                                                                    I also find it ironic about all the negative posts against Verotel and Glo-bill recently, mostly rumor mongering. My Verotel and Glo-bill checks continue to arrive on time, like clockwork, knock on wood. Meanwhile, iBill, Epoch and Jettis all get fined up the wazoo and now Epoch is having 'cashflow' problems.

                                                                                                    But Visa and Mastercard are the real villains here. They are using their God-like powers to just single out and stomp on an enitre industry. Screw 'em!



                                                                                                    Agree with your reference to Verotel and Glo-Bill. In the past few weeks the haters were bashing 'em with unsubstantiated rumors and conjecture about this or that compliance issue. The only companies definitely out of compliance are those that are getting fucking FINED. And it seems that chargebacks are what's doing it: iBill, Epoch, Jettis, Websitebilling....the list goes on.

                                                                                                    As long as webmasters continue to want to hide rebilling in tiny print, and screw over the user and as long as major processors allow that, Visa/MC are just going to continue to smash our industry.

                                                                                                    What will we tell our grandchildren when there is no porn industry left for them to inherit?

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