My tube thoughts and a question for you guys...
 

Ok my last thread didn't go over too well :anon so I thought I'd start fresh with my main points. I'm really not good at getting my point across especially when it's touchy subjects. My natural tendency is always to try to get a rise out of people and that usually doesn't work out too well lol.

Tubes that steal content piss me off and are bad for the industry. You will never hear me argue otherwise. I personally believe they exist because of the DMCA loophole. I may be wrong but I think if they didn't have the DMCA law to hide behind things would be very different. Unfortunately for the time being that is what they get to hide behind.

The sad thing is the majority of people complaining this week about tubes have done nothing but complain for 3 years now. I know complaining on GFY is the easiest and quickest way to feel you've contributed. But really it does nothing to help push the industry away from allowing these guys to exist. That was the point I wanted to get across in my last thread. Enough complaining already. I say either do something or shut up. If you feel these guys are that bad then start boycotting. Boycott every company running these type of tubes. Boycott every company sponsoring these tube companies. Be public about your boycott. Instead of spending time refreshing threads on gfy spend that time getting more people together to fight the cause you are putting forth. If you are fair and decide to deal with absolutely no company that deals with these sites then you may get somewhere. If the group grew to 50 to 100 affiliates that refuse to do business with anyone sponsoring tube sites (or go even further and not do business with anyone who does business with those that sponsor these tube sites) then you may get somewhere.

There is one problem with that type of boycott and one reason it hasn't happened. The companies that are working with tube sites, generally speaking, have the best content and they are the companies affiliates really want to work with. I think it goes without question that Brazzers, Reality Kings, Bang Bros, Naughty America, Twistys, Nubiles, Ftv Girls all produce some of the best content online today. The reality is when you are spending the type of money we are on content sitting back you can't sit back and watch your content get raped on these tube sites. Not only would our content be raped but our competition would be snatching up valuable branding space. It's nice to be the one guy who takes a stand in the industry but this is a business.


Now here is my question to you guys...

Why is it ok for Brazzers to skin the board (and sponsor gfy) but a TrafficJunky skin is not ok?

sig spot .

I think it's the blatant logos in the background. Before it was a bad company... now it's a bad company directly pushing a very bad product.

I know but doesn't that just point out how stupid, naive and complacent the webmaster community is? Why should GFY be to blame for allowing this skin. Nobody complained for the last Brazzers skin. What message did that send GFY admins?

Why are we ok with companies fucking us over as long as they don't do it openly? That is a real problem with this industry.

Brazzers Mobile Skin=people say awesome and everyone implements their mobile script or rips it to customize for their own purposes.

Traffic Junky Skin=Everyone turns into preachers.

the real problem is cheesballs like you

I look forward to seeing your members area on my favorite ukranian hosted tube

enjoy

This has always been the case in this biz. Don't think It will change.

I know :disgust

Hits nail on head.

Thats the one thing I find so amusing. The companies actualy running the tubes and fucking over everyone and no one does shit. In fact, they come here with shitty contests and their threads get 100's of bumps and free advertising.

The reason these tube owners will win (not if) and everyone else will lose is because that is their business plan. But no one see's it. They want you out of business. They have the money to do it, the brains to do it. It is just business, not personal and they are better at business than everyone else. They dont want to be gfy buddies and they couldn't give a flying fuck what anyone thinks of them. It is just business.

They win. Everyone else loses. The affiliate model is dying and the guys killing it are cutting the affiliate out of the loop. They have the content, they now have the traffic, they have all the new surfers comming from the search engines, they have the publicity. Now all they need is for everyone else to shut up shop and they are done.

Sure, no one ever claimed the GFY community was a team of NASA scientists.

But being sent a message is hardly any excuse. If a cop tells me I can kill someone for being stupid, and they won't question it... that doesn't mean I should just go ahead and kill the person. It's still wrong.

I get the point you're trying to make but there's simply no excuse.
You are judged for your own actions, you are judged for your own decisions.... not for the influences that led you to them. And influences or no, you should be able to make moral/ethical decisions on your own.

The "I thought I could screw over an entire community because someone said I could" argument doesn't really fly, does it? I mean, you're a grown up. You should be able to judge right from wrong on your own.

You are right. The good news is that big business consolidation still leaves room for the small business owners who cater to specialties or offer better service.

because people know how to make money with brazzers and don't know how to make it with tubes.

I'm too lazy to read any of your post Shap but I'm sure I know exactly what you said.

no one is pulling and brazzers/juggcash links, no one is going to stop trading with tgps tube8 owns, so the same hypocritical bullshit from the professional whiners.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

If they think that, they are complete and utter morons. The tube business model is a dead end. If no one is joining paysites anymore...where is the content going to come from? Dvd rips? Well, why would anyone buy dvds when they can get them ripped already online from rapidshare or torrents? Illegal tubes will eventually break not only affiliates but the content studios as well. What.. are tubes going to start buying content? Not likely. This would greatly effect their profit margin. The only way I can see tubes lasting any longer than another couple of years is if they work with the content producers/program owners...CONTENT PRODUCERS AND PAYSITE OWNERS ARE THE ONES WHO WILL HAVE THE MOST EFFECT OVER TUBES IF THEY WANT TO..lets face it.. affiliates are only ONE guy. Together they have power but most are just struggling to make it day by day right now. Am I tired of complaining? Sure but there is little else I can do. I already do not advertise any sponsor that I see promoting tubes.

Program owners can either work with tubes or set an example and not work with them. It could cost them money initially but I think they would win in the long run. They have the power/money/content whereas the affiliate has none of that.

The pathetic reality is that arguments about "tubes" are NO DIFFERENT than every argument that's existed since day on in this biz.

Everyone has always blamed everything else for their own failure. The reality is that this is a business that has evolved and changed very rapidly, as has technology, content, content delivery, connection speeds, market tastes/user expectations, copyright issues, user now having many experiences as members (bad and good) and so on.

There is not other industry on this planet that has/and has had a more adversarial relationship with its own market/customers. The mantra in 97/98/99 etc was "surfers are stupid"... and although that mentality has faded some, people in this industry seem to still seem to feel that they can dictate to users what they will get, rather than focusing on giving them what they want.

Be honest with yourself. Where do you surf for porn? sleazydream.com? Of course not. What fucking moron would? You head right to where you can get what you're looking for, without games, without deception, without blind links. Then at the same time, you act like tubes are unfairly killing your shitty, deceptive, unfriendly sites.

Pornhub/keez/tube8 are still kicking ass in Google and have been for a couple years now. WHy? Do you care? Do you know? They've been putting in the work right in front of your face. They've been buying up links where they can, they've been doing very clever trades and building up other sub networks. They have MANY copies of their tube sites, on other domains that i don't see people complaining about. And you worry about them stealing? Stealing or not stealing has nothing to do with the fact that they are sucking up search traffic.

The idea that pornhub.com owns the top "porn" phrases in Google because of "stolen content" is laughable. If you believe that, you have no business owning a website. They have embarked on a very aggressive and well thought out and well managed linking campaign for several years now. They owned you. Period. You can bitch about "stolen content" and you won't change the fact that their visitors have NOTHING to do with "stolen content". Their search traffic won't change one bit tomorrow (to tube8, keez etc) based on whether or not a video is licensed to them or not. They will still be kicking your asses in the SERPs.

This business has always been its own worst enemy. And while everyone is arguing about law, virtue, morals, ethics or whatever the fuck... there has NEVER been a shortage of people to slide in, break every rule and dominate while you morons preach from your soap box.

TGP's, MGP's and link lists are dead. Not today... but they are dying. They aren't going to one day suddenly become "not dead" anymore than horses are going to become the primary mode of transportation again. Are you really so detached from the customer that you can't understand that people would rather go right to a video site and watch what they want than spend 20 minutes clicking around your shitty sites, being redirected, clicking 80% blind links etc? Really? You can't understand that?

... and those that have accepted that massive change is happening that they can't keep up with... can only blame one last thing for their failure... "stolen content" - but the fact remains that pornhub.com, tube8.com, keezmovies.com and a few others will remain at the top of the SERP's because they are kicking your asses with basic SEO... not because a site has stolen content on it. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you will be able to admit to yourselves that you have some work to do, or that maybe you should move on and spend your time doing something that will yield a return, ... maybe construction or something.

One of the first things I do when considering sending traffic to a sponsor I've not promoted before is check the illegal tubes to see if their content is all over them. If I find more than just a few clips, I move on and find some other sponsor to promote. I don't care if they're 5 minutes or 20 minutes, I'm not going to try to compete with that. I know more than just a few others that do the same. So, if you are a sponsor and you've made a deal with the devil just to keep your full length clips off the tubes, it's still costing you money.

Is this about Batts? If not, I really dont care any more.

i like it better when people dont give a fuck. two days ago, everyone on gfy was a nobody loser who didnt matter to you, now you wanna come share thoughts?

tell everyone to fuck off and go do business, you dont owe anyone explanation or thoughts.

the I dont give a fuck attitude looks much cooler on a forum

Generally agree, but I see some potential for alternate endings.

1) DMCA loopholes closed, or 2257 expanded, to require anyone hosting porn to have IDs and releases, no exceptions. Seems somewhat likely (though not soon) since social conservatives will eventually make it back into power one day.

2) If this criminal environment of anarchy persists, you will start to see the same type of "competition" that exists in any unregulated underground business. In absence of legal conflict resolution, violence fills the vacuum. I'm surprised we haven't seen this yet, considering the scale of losses involved. Emotions run high, and thieves eventually steal from the wrong person. It may be an angry ex-webmaster turned vigilante, or a rival organization, but when there's big money at stake, and no rules or authority to turn to, history and human nature suggest that business gets bloody.

Either way, the guys who think they're smart and getting away with everything now probably won't get away with it forever. If they think there won't be repercussions, I think they're being dangerously naive. You fuck with peoples money, people do crazy irrational things. Personally, I wouldn't want to have to live looking over my shoulder like that. :2 cents:

It's a perfect storm right now against existing sites/webmasters.

1) Bandwidth is becoming cheaper in 3rd world countries. More people are "webmastering" & saturating existing methods like never before.

2) Bandwidth is becoming almost "free" at high levels at hosting companies. Where it used to cost a host $30mbps, then to $20, then to $15....then to like $8 last year. And now most hosts are paying maybe $4mbps (retail) for the highest end providers. If they push even a little volume. The biggest hosts will soon be paying $0.50.

3) SE masters have set up their own tube sites. This has the biggest impact on organic SE traffic/relating to conversions on free porn keywords. People like 3pic (who runs tube8 etc), who have owned the best keywords for years, now run full length video sites & surfers only really need to bookmark 1 page now for EVERYTHING. Let me say this again....3pic & his network, are some of the best search engine guys in the world (especially with teen keywords). I am just using them as an example though. But as a search engine guy myself, I have a lot of respect for what 3pic/tube8 has been able to do with organic search. I do NOT player hate.

The search engine masters will not be able to run the show forever though. As more "legal" tube sites open on decent domains, surfers will be sent to 2min vid clips, which is no different than the old MGP style sites & the prevalence of tubes (as related to search engine queries) will become less diluted.

I think people just need to keep their head down & ride out the storm (by working hard & shutting up). If you want to do something about it.....set up your own legal tube with 1-2minute clips. Start getting your piece of organic search traffic & it will dilute the effectiveness of the illegal tubes. You can do the same exact thing with traffic trading & tube sites :2 cents:

The last thing anyone in this industry needs is more government regulation.

Especially since almost ALL of the illegal tube sites that steal content are registered/run by companies in countries which will never adapt U.S. style laws.

All you're going to do with regulation, is open the door to MORE UNNECESSARY REGULATION.

People need to stop crying & start trying to take over these guys keywords. Search engines are still the key to their success. :2 cents:

If these people can easily get good rankings for good keywords..why even use videos? It seems stupid. You've already got the top spot, you've got them looking... send them to a sponsor. Don't give them shit for free after all the work put into getting them there. I don't get it.

tubes will no doubt bring regulation. People thought tgps and mpgs were too easy for minors to access but now they have endless hours of hardcore porn to watch. Its gonna bite people in the ass sooner or later.

some that have top porn keywords do exactly what pro said - they have a tubes that send to sponsors - which keywords? do you own research. no one is going to hold your hand.

Because they are creating a community, a new concept....the hottest shit. Something that will be a cash cow/community full of totally stoked users (discussed all over the net, posted on twitter, discussed on myspace & every form on the world) for a very long time.

Their $ made from sponsors is a long term goal. Right now, they want recognition/branding & page views.

That's why....if you don't get it now, you'll never get it. Direct advertising is not their #1 goal at the moment.

or the totally clueless copyright holders will realize that exploiting the peer based distribution is almost as simple as put your shit on the tape cassettes and sell it to the VCR owners.

that tales the hard tedious work of link/network building etc. though. better just to whine.

If you think it was "easy" you don't know much about search engine work.

They started their work years ago. I would say that about 50% of all GFY members have sold links to these guys & their networks.

About 2-3 years ago they started approaching everyone with a decent keyword in the first 2 pages of every term.

They succeeded & lots of people here are unknowingly (or knowingly) responsible in a # of ways.

These guys invested an ENORMOUS amount of $ buying up links. They knew exactly what they were doing....it was down right amazing.

Don't hate the player, hate the game. :2 cents:

I know I'm just not very good at it lol

i used to get really annoyed with shaps posts, but now i just rip all his content and post it on the torrents....

Best link traders in adult, hands down.

You're in Amsterdam and posting on gfy. Go enjoy life a little :)
WG

Best 1-way link purchasers in adult. Hands down :2 cents:

LOL Was actually in London. At the airport lounge now waiting to fly to AMS

Maybe people should do some research, let those know they sold links to tubes. Maybe they would take them down. Do that enough and its gonna hurt one way or another. Either way, this business blows these days. I'm totally sick of it. It used to be fun to create sites and watch the traffic and sales coming but its pointless these days. In a few years all that will be left are third world criminals if things continue as they are.

Point noted. :thumbsup

The people who run these sites are mostly living in the USA. That subjects them to US law no matter what their company mailing address. International agreements cover all but the most craphole countries.

I'm not primarily an affiliate, so I don't care who wins the SEO wars. One affiliate sending me a sale is as good as another. I have no problem with "tubes" as a delivery format. But as the copyright owner, only I have the right to decide how my content gets used. Copyright enforcement isn't unnecessary regulation; it's absolutely fucking critical. If you steal content that cost tens of thousands to produce, causing hundreds of thousands in lost revenue, you deserve a lot more jailtime than someone who stole a $5K car.

Either the government protects people's property, or some guy with a gun will make his own justice. That's the reality no-rules business degenerates into. It could take years, but if that's really the game now, then the fat docile geeks will drop out, and harder men will move in. Today's thieves will find themselves out of their league.

Or maybe you should modify your business model & stop blaming others for your lack of adaptation during an economic downturn :pimp