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Illegally Downloading Hollywood Movies... Right or Wrong?
Okay... This topic was hidden in a movie thread that might not get the exposure the discussion turned into so here is its very own thread. As the title conveys, there seem to be a few among us who feel downloading movies is a perfectly acceptable practice and is in no way considered theft. This is quite surprising coming from a community that is battling its own war with stolen content.
Refering to discussions from this thread: Bama believes that since he pays a cable bill, that gives him the right to illegally download any hollywood movie. Here is where he states his case. He wanted reasons for why he his belief is wrong, I gave it to him, yet he claims he still has the right to NOT PAY FOR THEM. Quote:
So I went into more detail with this: Quote:
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I have heard the following as well: 1. I downloaded it to see if it was good or not... Then why not go out and spend the 3 or 4 bucks to RENT IT. 2. I don't like going to the theatres... Then wait till it comes out on DVD and RENT IT. So what is your view on this topic. Let the discussion begin. |
stealing is bad, hugs are good
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However, I DID purchase Master of Puppets and Sepultura Schizophrenia in later years LOL |
I once copied a movie on vhs from the tv. Is that bad?
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Wrong - however I do it anyway as I use it as a basis to judge whether or not to purchase the movie.
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I suppose it all depends on what you do afterwards. Making copies and handing them out to people or charging people to watch your recorded copy obviously is illegal as stated by the law. |
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I still fail to see the rationale in this as you are fully capable of renting it for this exact same reason. |
This is purely my opinion and is not based on any laws.
1. If the movie is still only available in theaters and you download it you are stealing it. 2. If the movie is only available on DVD and you download it you are stealing it. 3. If the movie is available on pay per view and you pay to watch and you record it to watch again later, that is fine. However if you pay to watch it and still download it this might be wrong. This one is a slippery slope. If I buy a pay per view movie then have to leave in the middle of it I should be allowed to record it and watch it in full at a later time, but that doesn't mean I get to own it and watch it whenever I want. Some pay per view services now allow you to pay once and watch the movie as many times as you want in 24 or 48 hours which is a nice offer. 4. If the movie is available on HBO, Showtime or some premium cable service and you are a subscriber of that service you should be allowed to record the show, but like #3 this doesn't entitle you to own it. 5. If the movie is on basic cable or free broadcast TV I don't have a problem with it being downloaded. I understand the idea that there is an agreement made that you will watch the commercials in exchange for getting to see the movie and that some movies are edited to play on TV so they are not exactly the same as the original version, but I think once a movie has trickled down to these markets downloading it does very little harm to the studio/producers. |
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thepiratebay was blocked by mosts ISP's today here in denmark. One down - 500000 to go
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Some movies i severly regret ever purchasing on DVD:
Snakes on a plane Austin Powers 1,2,3 and countless others name yours! |
I've never downloaded a movie because I'm too lazy to do that shit and I'll just wait for Netflix. But if I wanted to, I would.
And I have Limewire running right now. |
for the record, ive never downloaded a single movie either.
only thing im guilty of is watching a couple episodes of South park on allsp.com however, I own every South park box set released and even bought some in orginal single disc format before they released the box sets lol i think there is difference between "watching" an episode and downloading it though. Ive never downloaded movies or episodes, but because i dont watch tv i have used internet site to see the previous nights South park... but i didnt retain a copy for myself |
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I read a great article on Rick Rubin a while back and when he became the new head of Columbia Records he put together focus groups that brought in listeners from age 14 to 22 and found out that not only did almost all of them download music, most of them didn't consider it stealing. There is an entire generation now to whom paying for music is an alien idea. |
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I am mostly talking about recent or still in theatre movies. However, I dissagree with you on point 5. Just because a movie occasionally makes it to regular TV, doesn't give us a free for all to it when it suits us. Walk into a store, grab a movie and on the way out tell security, "Hey, its okay, I don't need to pay for this. I saw it on (fill in your channel here) last night." |
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With the compact disc came less respect for artwork on the covers as well as appreciation for the music itself. Id prefer to buy vinyl, shit i still do. LOL |
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The way I look at it this: If I know I am likely to watch the movie 3 or more times in the future it is worth buying the DVD. If not, I will just rent it because buying it is wasting money. |
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both sides seem to be going overboard on this arguement taking something you never paid for (movie still in the theater) because you paid for cable (although the arguement could be paid the product placement paid -- ala piracy tax in canada) is wrong. likewise saying that it is illegal for me to give someone else a copy of my tape so they can catch up show they missed on tv when the betamax case ruling clearly gave us such a right is also wrong. In the 70s if my vcr failed and i went to a friend who had taped knight rider and borrowed his tape that was legal under the betamax case. Using a torrent is just the modern day equivalent to that act. The middle ground is much better, recover, timeshift anything you paid for. Don't for anything you didn't pay for. |
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For me I was mostly referencing major movies that start their lives in theaters. By the time they eventually get to free TV of basic cable they are pretty much played out in the other markets and I think downloading them doesn't do that much damage to them. I will agree that it isn't really right, but I think if you are going to download a movie that is the time when it does the least damage. When it comes to movie that are still in the theater it is always wrong. |
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the entire movie was shit after that. i have only watched the dvd once and would use it as a coaster if i drank beer still... |
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There is nothing like putting on a record and listening to it while you look at the big album cover and the artwork inside. |
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When you make a copy (download from the internet) you don't prevent any sale huge difference |
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I didn't say anything about not letting a friend borrow it, I said making copies and just start handing them out to PEOPLE (read piracy) not hookin a brother up. And what is this timeshift bullshit... I bought a snickers once, that mean all further snickers are free of charge? Sounds to me just another excuse to justify the actions of a thief. |
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Yeah... that isn't theft, what was I thinking? </sarcasm> |
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I have a closet ull of vinyl and still have my technics 1200s heheh |
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The first time I laid eyes on her copy of Alice Cooper goes to Hell i was mesmerizeed by the album artwork and ive collected music ever since she gave me all her vinyl. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...es_To_Hell.jpg i dont just listen to music, i collect it heheh like R Crumb. music is the most important thing in my life, i surround myself with it every day... |
I do download movies now and then. I however do end up buying the originals if I like the movies. Same with music, but I purchase merchandise and CD's if I like the group/band.
Guess some people find it wrong and will call me a thief, no exceptions. I'm fine with that, I just don't like paying for bad shit. I also have a subscription to cable TV but that argument is plain bullshit as paying $10 a month to a TV company doesn't exactly support your favorite movie. |
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Let me begin: "when you take a dvd out of the store you prevent someone else from buying that copy. When you make a copy (download from the internet) you don't prevent any sale" HOLY FUCKING DUMB FUCK BATMAN! Let me break this down a little bit more... "when you take a dvd out of the store you prevent someone else from buying that copy." Ok, here we go... When you STEAL a movie off of a shelf, you are a thief. That movie will get replaced by the STOCK SUPPLY that most places have on hand from the back room. If that supply does not have another to replace it with, it gets added to the following week's PO for stock. Your statement is fucking rediculous, and you are a brainless cow turd of a human being. Let's move on... "When you make a copy (download from the internet) you don't prevent any sale" What TYPE of egg did you hatch from? Apparently it was layed by a retarded chicken. Perhaps one of the ones that Nuggets come from? When you download a movie from the internet, YOU are not BUYING the fucking movie. Hence, YOU are the one being prevented from purchasing it. Not someone else. It's YOU who is not spending the money. You are the fucking idiot thief in this instance. Go soak yourself in BBQ sauce and jump into some fat fucks mouth, you retarded nugget fuck. :2 cents: |
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assuming you never bought the right to view (never paid for the cable) Quote:
The shoplifter is also timeshifting, however he is also prevent the sale of that item to someone who doesn't have that timeshifting right, or prefers to have a hard copy physical good. Quote:
copyright infringement is not theft never will be never has been. Taking something physically is theft. copyright infringment is a fraud ( a false claim to having a right to view). |
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If you watch movies online, and would never otherwise rent the movie or watch it period, and it makes you a fan and you buy the dvd or rent it.. is that a bad thing?
What about people that buy a dvd, use the hell out of it. Give it to a neighbor, then the neighbor makes a backup for himself, then sells the org at a bookstore. The bookstore sells it to joe, to sells it on ebay, back to the guy that gave me the dvd anyway because he forgot he gave it away... all legal of course. Why can I buy a DVD in the real world, make a copy, give away or sell the org, and 100 other people could do the same.. But the second you stream it online.. the studio, actors, ect all the sudden lose out, it's stealing? Righttttt... but even so, I give a shit. Without piracy, I wouldn't legally own 50% of the movies I do. I would own more if the DVD's where about 75% cheaper, actually at real value.. BTW, Commercials were put in to pay actors, news anchors, and so on more money than they are worth. You subscribe to the channels otherwise. As if the people on Friends should have ever made more than a few 100k each year for the few months of lame work they have to do. Piracy people.. You guys keep thinking it hurts, it has more made fans, more people talking about, more money, more growth, more everything... Look at the damn movie industry, it's booming... and they are still putting out total trash and over paying everyone! Piracy has help make some of these people how they are today... without it, the industry would be dead. |
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The key point you are missing in the example is that in both cases the arguement is that YOU ALREADY BOUGHT THE SHOW, when you paid your cable. So you have paid for it already, when you download it you are simply not paying for it TWICE. In the case of going in a store and taking an item, you are reducing the stock. Since there is no such thing as an infinite stock, the act reduces the amount of inventory of the company, increases the likelyhood that the item will run out when another person wants to buy. Even if you lived in a world where the backroom was an infinite supply of the items, the store had to pay for that physical item, it represented a cost of goods sold which disappears without the associated profit. Downloading content YOU ALREADY PAID FOR, is just recovery/timeshifting. Re read my post i said my point of view is the middle ground, timeshift the stuff you paid for (past tense) don't touch the stuff you haven't. Your arguement is the opposite side of the coin to bama's i have a right to everything because at some point in the future it will exist on tv ("reverse timeshifting" was what it was called when i argued against it in a previous thread). |
when no movies are made anymore, people will realise it in the end.
They would have to do without and start reading books again maybe? The Music industry makes more on licensing merchandise and live concerts then they do on cd sales.... the software industry is better protected by law and are lucky to be offering online multiplayer gaming and selling extra levels, etc. |
The crux of this whole thing is the misunderstanding that just because a new delivery method has emerged for digital media that somehow it means the public can now determine how and where certain types of media are distributed.
This argument is not taking place in any other industry. Nobody is arguing that you should get cable TV for free, that you should get high speed internet for free, that you should get food or cars for free. Nobody is arguing that you should be able to walk into a movie theater for free. |
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