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-   -   Cut and Run, the Only Brave Thing to Do... a letter from Michael Moore (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=680965)

chshkt 11-26-2006 01:51 PM

Cut and Run, the Only Brave Thing to Do... a letter from Michael Moore
 
Cut and Run, the Only Brave Thing to Do... a letter from Michael Moore

Sunday, November 26th, 2006

Friends,

Tomorrow marks the day that we will have been in Iraq longer than we were in all of World War II.

That's right. We were able to defeat all of Nazi Germany, Mussolini, and the entire Japanese empire in LESS time than it's taken the world's only superpower to secure the road from the airport to downtown Baghdad.

And we haven't even done THAT. After 1,347 days, in the same time it took us to took us to sweep across North Africa, storm the beaches of Italy, conquer the South Pacific, and liberate all of Western Europe, we cannot, after over 3 and 1/2 years, even take over a single highway and protect ourselves from a homemade device of two tin cans placed in a pothole. No wonder the cab fare from the airport into Baghdad is now running around $35,000 for the 25-minute ride. And that doesn't even include a friggin' helmet.

Is this utter failure the fault of our troops? Hardly. That's because no amount of troops or choppers or democracy shot out of the barrel of a gun is ever going to "win" the war in Iraq. It is a lost war, lost because it never had a right to be won, lost because it was started by men who have never been to war, men who hide behind others sent to fight and die.

Let's listen to what the Iraqi people are saying, according to a recent poll conducted by the University of Maryland:

** 71% of all Iraqis now want the U.S. out of Iraq.

** 61% of all Iraqis SUPPORT insurgent attacks on U.S. troops.

Yes, the vast majority of Iraqi citizens believe that our soldiers should be killed and maimed! So what the hell are we still doing there? Talk about not getting the hint.

There are many ways to liberate a country. Usually the residents of that country rise up and liberate themselves. That's how we did it. You can also do it through nonviolent, mass civil disobedience. That's how India did it. You can get the world to boycott a regime until they are so ostracized they capitulate. That's how South Africa did it. Or you can just wait them out and, sooner or later, the king's legions simply leave (sometimes just because they're too cold). That's how Canada did it.

The one way that DOESN'T work is to invade a country and tell the people, "We are here to liberate you!" -- when they have done NOTHING to liberate themselves. Where were all the suicide bombers when Saddam was oppressing them? Where were the insurgents planting bombs along the roadside as the evildoer Saddam's convoy passed them by? I guess ol' Saddam was a cruel despot -- but not cruel enough for thousands to risk their necks. "Oh no, Mike, they couldn't do that! Saddam would have had them killed!" Really? You don't think King George had any of the colonial insurgents killed? You don't think Patrick Henry or Tom Paine were afraid? That didn't stop them. When tens of thousands aren't willing to shed their own blood to remove a dictator, that should be the first clue that they aren't going to be willing participants when you decide you're going to do the liberating for them.

A country can HELP another people overthrow a tyrant (that's what the French did for us in our revolution), but after you help them, you leave. Immediately. The French didn't stay and tell us how to set up our government. They didn't say, "we're not leaving because we want your natural resources." They left us to our own devices and it took us six years before we had an election. And then we had a bloody civil war. That's what happens, and history is full of these examples. The French didn't say, "Oh, we better stay in America, otherwise they're going to kill each other over that slavery issue!"

The only way a war of liberation has a chance of succeeding is if the oppressed people being liberated have their own citizens behind them -- and a group of Washingtons, Jeffersons, Franklins, Ghandis and Mandellas leading them. Where are these beacons of liberty in Iraq? This is a joke and it's been a joke since the beginning. Yes, the joke's been on us, but with 655,000 Iraqis now dead as a result of our invasion (source: Johns Hopkins University), I guess the cruel joke is on them. At least they've been liberated, permanently.

So I don't want to hear another word about sending more troops (wake up, America, John McCain is bonkers), or "redeploying" them, or waiting four months to begin the "phase-out." There is only one solution and it is this: Leave. Now. Start tonight. Get out of there as fast as we can. As much as people of good heart and conscience don't want to believe this, as much as it kills us to accept defeat, there is nothing we can do to undo the damage we have done. What's happened has happened. If you were to drive drunk down the road and you killed a child, there would be nothing you could do to bring that child back to life. If you invade and destroy a country, plunging it into a civil war, there isn't much you can do 'til the smoke settles and blood is mopped up. Then maybe you can atone for the atrocity you have committed and help the living come back to a better life.

The Soviet Union got out of Afghanistan in 36 weeks. They did so and suffered hardly any losses as they left. They realized the mistake they had made and removed their troops. A civil war ensued. The bad guys won. Later, we overthrew the bad guys and everybody lived happily ever after. See! It all works out in the end!

The responsibility to end this war now falls upon the Democrats. Congress controls the purse strings and the Constitution says only Congress can declare war. Mr. Reid and Ms. Pelosi now hold the power to put an end to this madness. Failure to do so will bring the wrath of the voters. We aren't kidding around, Democrats, and if you don't believe us, just go ahead and continue this war another month. We will fight you harder than we did the Republicans. The opening page of my website has a photo of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, each made up by a collage of photos of the American soldiers who have died in Bush's War. But it is now about to become the Bush/Democratic Party War unless swift action is taken.

This is what we demand:

1. Bring the troops home now. Not six months from now. NOW. Quit looking for a way to win. We can't win. We've lost. Sometimes you lose. This is one of those times. Be brave and admit it.

2. Apologize to our soldiers and make amends. Tell them we are sorry they were used to fight a war that had NOTHING to do with our national security. We must commit to taking care of them so that they suffer as little as possible. The mentally and physically maimed must get the best care and significant financial compensation. The families of the deceased deserve the biggest apology and they must be taken care of for the rest of their lives.

3. We must atone for the atrocity we have perpetuated on the people of Iraq. There are few evils worse than waging a war based on a lie, invading another country because you want what they have buried under the ground. Now many more will die. Their blood is on our hands, regardless for whom we voted. If you pay taxes, you have contributed to the three billion dollars a week now being spent to drive Iraq into the hellhole it's become. When the civil war is over, we will have to help rebuild Iraq. We can receive no redemption until we have atoned.

In closing, there is one final thing I know. We Americans are better than what has been done in our name. A majority of us were upset and angry after 9/11 and we lost our minds. We didn't think straight and we never looked at a map. Because we are kept stupid through our pathetic education system and our lazy media, we knew nothing of history. We didn't know that WE were the ones funding and arming Saddam for many years, including those when he massacred the Kurds. He was our guy. We didn't know what a Sunni or a Shiite was, never even heard the words. Eighty percent of our young adults (according to National Geographic) were not able to find Iraq on the map. Our leaders played off our stupidity, manipulated us with lies, and scared us to death.

But at our core we are a good people. We may be slow learners, but that "Mission Accomplished" banner struck us as odd, and soon we began to ask some questions. Then we began to get smart. By this past November 7th, we got mad and tried to right our wrongs. The majority now know the truth. The majority now feel a deep sadness and guilt and a hope that somehow we can make make it all right again.

Unfortunately, we can't. So we will accept the consequences of our actions and do our best to be there should the Iraqi people ever dare to seek our help in the future. We ask for their forgiveness.

We demand the Democrats listen to us and get out of Iraq now.

Yours,

Michael Moore
www.michaelmoore.com
[email protected]

ForteCash 11-26-2006 01:55 PM

Michael Moore is a fat, disgusting slob and a two faced gun-grabbing fuck :2 cents:

Nicky 11-26-2006 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForteCash (Post 11396975)
Michael Moore is a fat, disgusting slob and a two faced gun-grabbing fuck :2 cents:

He does have some points imo

ForteCash 11-26-2006 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicky (Post 11396994)
He does have some points imo

So did Hitler, but I wouldn't take his advice on "war" :1orglaugh

pornguy 11-26-2006 02:03 PM

He has a few points. but now that BUSH started this way, we can not just leave.

Martin 11-26-2006 02:07 PM

He has a point. The war is lost. Time to go. Really what can you do to win? Nothing. Why stay there and lose more troops while you spend 3BILLION dollars a WEEK...

jacklaidlaw 11-26-2006 02:07 PM

he says america is the worlds only super power my ass china is a super power the americans did not defeat the germans the allies did russia britain and usa anfd a few more this guys talks through his ass

Lazonby 11-26-2006 02:09 PM

You're usually on safe ground doing the exact opposite of what Michael Moore says.

slapass 11-26-2006 02:19 PM

Great letter. Not sure how i feel about making it up to them but would be nice to quit throwing money into the hole.

tony286 11-26-2006 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazonby (Post 11397035)
You're usually on safe ground doing the exact opposite of what Michael Moore says.

That is so silly , he has valid points we are not going to win. just because they volunteered for the army doesnt get the government the right to send them to be slaughtered for nothing. The reason everyone here is so brave with others lives is because they have been asked to sacrifice nothing. Lets see how for the war Sticky is if they are shipping his ass off to Iraq. Moore is right , we didnt go there to help the Iraqi freedom fighters.It all makes no sense they wouldnt rise up against Saddam but have no problem going after the greatest army in the world. HMMMMM maybe they wanted Saddam in power?

starpimps 11-26-2006 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForteCash (Post 11396975)
Michael Moore is a fat, disgusting slob and a two faced gun-grabbing fuck :2 cents:

i agree with you
that fat cunt should be dying from a heart attack soon

TheDoc 11-26-2006 03:26 PM

If he wrote the letter to the gov directly, he wouldn't say we had help.

He would stand strong that "our country" is all powerful (doesn't mater if it isn't), "the country" wins wars (even if it has help but no reason to say that).. "it" may make a bad choice but a group of others can make a correct choice. (democrats ie all of america now)

It's the proper way to get a message across the gov, or to get a gov grant.

mikiemd101 11-26-2006 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForteCash (Post 11397000)
So did Hitler, but I wouldn't take his advice on "war" :1orglaugh

if you were a green alien you would look out for all your green aliens. Yes Hitler lost his war but he was looking out for his pride. Michael Moore is just looking out for our brothers,sister,mother and father being killed everyday over oil. I say its a religious war and unless drop a few nukes the war will never change.

baddog 11-26-2006 05:30 PM

I love how he compares the occupation of Iraq with the actual battle time in WWII.

Why does he fail to mention our occupation time after the treaty was signed?

Oh yeah, because then he would have no argument.

Alex 11-26-2006 05:33 PM

He is failing to realize that the U.S is alone in Iraq.

During WW2, We[The U.S] had also had Russia, Britain and France... Well maybe just Russia and Britain.

evildick 11-26-2006 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog (Post 11398029)
I love how he compares the occupation of Iraq with the actual battle time in WWII.

Why does he fail to mention our occupation time after the treaty was signed?

Oh yeah, because then he would have no argument.

He doesn't let facts get in the way of him trying to get his views across.

:1orglaugh

He pulled the same sort of shit in Bowling for Columbine when he tried to say that guns were just as plentiful and as easy to get in Canada as they were in the U.S., but we didn't have as much violent crime. (anyone that has tried to legally purchase a handgun in Canada knows what I am talking about)

He does have a valid point this time though. Can't really see things getting much better over there. I could be wrong I guess.

JFK 11-26-2006 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starpimps (Post 11397324)
i agree with you
that fat cunt should be dying from a heart attack soon

or perhaps you should go over there and Win the War single handedly Rambo:321GFY

tony286 11-26-2006 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog (Post 11398029)
I love how he compares the occupation of Iraq with the actual battle time in WWII.

Why does he fail to mention our occupation time after the treaty was signed?

Oh yeah, because then he would have no argument.

its still a war in iraq people are getting killed everyday, in world war 2 when it was over it was over people werent still getting shot at and blown up.

Peaches 11-26-2006 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog (Post 11398029)
I love how he compares the occupation of Iraq with the actual battle time in WWII.

Why does he fail to mention our occupation time after the treaty was signed?

Oh yeah, because then he would have no argument.

Hell, aren't we STILL at all the bases we created during WW2?!

jpwhits 11-26-2006 06:04 PM

too fat;didnt read

baddog 11-26-2006 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 11398162)
in world war 2 when it was over it was over people werent still getting shot at and blown up.

You really believe that?

Okay, how many Americans were killed in WWII compared to Iraq? Think we will get to anywhere close?

baddog 11-26-2006 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peaches (Post 11398202)
Hell, aren't we STILL at all the bases we created during WW2?!

Pretty much

sweetcuties 11-26-2006 06:07 PM

I got his email earlier, I'm on his mail list

baddog 11-26-2006 06:08 PM

If I wasn't busy I would tear into several idiotic comments in that manifesto, but I have work to do.

SuckOnThis 11-26-2006 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForteCash (Post 11396975)
Michael Moore is a fat, disgusting slob and a two faced gun-grabbing fuck :2 cents:

Says the guy that makes his living by ripping people off with bogus penis enlargement scams. :1orglaugh

directfiesta 11-26-2006 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex (Post 11398043)
He is failing to realize that the U.S is alone in Iraq.

Not True.... :warning

Dubya said over and over that it is a Coalition, ( remember, " of the willing " ).

directfiesta 11-26-2006 06:11 PM

Henry Kissinger, Nixon?s main adviser on Vietnam and a long-time Rockefeller protégé, finally said in an interview broadcast Nov. 19 on BBC that a U.S. military victory in Iraq is ?no longer possible.? He had earlier told journalist Bob Woodward, ?Victory is the only viable exit strategy.?

seems in line with this letter ....

Peaches 11-26-2006 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 11397199)
HMMMMM maybe they wanted Saddam in power?

Which is why Iran's court sentenced him to death?

directfiesta 11-26-2006 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peaches (Post 11398286)
Which is why Iran's court sentenced him to death?


They did ??????

Fucking Iranians

StuartD 11-26-2006 06:21 PM

Iraqi liberation....

There's a reason that they called it Operation Iraqi Freedom.

It's because Operation Iraqi Liberation would have been a bit too obvious.

directfiesta 11-26-2006 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StuartD (Post 11398316)
Iraqi liberation....

There's a reason that they called it Operation Iraqi Freedom.

It's because Operation Iraqi Liberation would have been a bit too obvious.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

nice.

notabook 11-26-2006 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by directfiesta (Post 11398304)
They did ??????

Fucking Iranians

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

mikiemd101 11-26-2006 07:05 PM

A religious war will never end. NEVER

I just watched a great movie called Death of the eletric car. This was a great documentary about how big oil shut down the ev1 eletric car. Go ev1

ForteCash 11-26-2006 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis (Post 11398239)
Says the guy that makes his living by ripping people off with bogus penis enlargement scams. :1orglaugh

Actually, I used the penis enlargement techniques for a year before I decided to market them, and yes they work. Keep it up and I'll sue your sorry ass, I've done it before and I'll do it again. I don't even care if I lose, I'll do it just to make you spend many g's in court bitch :2 cents:

Dirty Dane 11-26-2006 07:56 PM

Its quite clear that Moore does not know much about history.
Japanese empire was never defeated, they were nuked. It took less time invading Iraq. Half of nazi Germany and Europe was defeated by the russian army. The rest was allied, not US alone.
Anyway, Iraq is about an aftermath problem. Try comparing it with Vietnam instead :)

ForteCash 11-26-2006 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane (Post 11398756)
Its quite clear that Moore does not know much about history.
Japanese empire was never defeated, they were nuked. It took less time invading Iraq. Half of nazi Germany and Europe was defeated by the russian army. The rest was allied, not US alone.
Anyway, Iraq is about an aftermath problem. Try comparing it with Vietnam instead :)

Very true :2 cents:

sacX 11-26-2006 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog (Post 11398029)
I love how he compares the occupation of Iraq with the actual battle time in WWII.

Why does he fail to mention our occupation time after the treaty was signed?

Oh yeah, because then he would have no argument.

uh maybe becaues the occupations were peaceful? there was hardly any insurgency to speak of.

sacX 11-26-2006 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peaches (Post 11398202)
Hell, aren't we STILL at all the bases we created during WW2?!

yes, but this is not because of the Germans or the Japanese, it's because of the Soviet Union.

CDSmith 11-26-2006 08:35 PM

Sounds like Moore has another propagandamentary in the works and is now laying the groundwork for promoting it.

Bowling for Bush.

DateDoc 11-26-2006 08:41 PM

59 Lies from Farenheit 911 http://www.davekopel.org/terror/59Deceits.pdf

Quote:

1. The Gore ?victory? rally isn?t celebrating a Florida win. It was held before the polls had even opened.
2. Like all the other networks, Fox mistakenly said that Gore had won in Florida. The first network to retract the Florida mistake was CBS, not Fox.
3. A 6-month study by a consortium of major newspapers shows that Bush would have won the Florida recount under any of the terms which Gore sought in his lawsuits.
4. Investigation by the Palm Beach Post and others shows that race was not a reason why election officials mistakenly disqualified some voters because they were incorrectly thought to have felony convictions.
5. Bush?s Presidency before 9/11 was not in serious trouble. No commentator said that he looked like a lame-duck president. Congress had passed his #1 bill (the tax cut) and was on the way to passing his #2 bill (the education bill). The scene at the end of the movie in which Bush tells a rich audience, ?I call you my base,? was from an October 2000 charity fund-raiser. Both Gore and Bush spoke at the fund-raiser and, as is the custom at the fund-raiser, made fun of themselves.
6. ?In his first eight months in office before September 11th, George W. Bush was on vacation, according to the Washington Post, forty-two percent of the time.? As the Washington Post reported, the figure includes weekends, and includes time in ?vacation locations? such as Camp David, where Bush was working?as when he met with Tony Blair.
7. In the golf course scene (about the middle of the movie), Bush had just heard about a terrorist attack on Israel. He called the press together to make a quick statement condemning the terrorism against Israel. He was not speaking about attacks on the United States.
8. There is no evidence that Bush did not read the Aug. 6, 2001 Presidential Daily Briefing about al Qaeda.
9. He never claimed that the title?s ?vagueness? was an excuse for not reading it.
10. The Briefing did not say ?said that Osama bin Laden was planning to attack America by hijacking airplanes.? It said that the FBI has ?not been able to corroborate? such a threat.
11. The Saudis left the U.S. only after air travel was opened for the general public.
12. According to Richard Clarke and the September 11 Commission, Clarke personally approved the Saudi departures, and the decision went no higher in the chain of command.
13. Moore lied to a TV reporter in claiming that Fahrenheit discloses Clarke?s decision to the audience. Clarke called the Saudi exit material in Fahrenheit a ?mistake? by Moore.
14. Contrary to what Fahrenheit claims, the September 11 Commission found that many Saudis were asked ?detailed questions? before being allowed to leave.
15. James Bath did not invest bin Laden family money in Bush?s energy company Arbusto. He invested his own money.
16. Bath?s name was blacked-out from an Alabama National Guard record released by the White House?as required by federal law, which prohibits the disclosure of health-related personal information.
17. Prince Bandar has way too much influence on the U.S. government, as Fahrenheit shows, but American coddling of the Saudi tyranny is a long-standing bi-partisan tradition, not a Bush invention.
18. Harken Energy: Bush only sold the stock after company lawyers told him it was OK.
19. The reason that Bush ?beat the rap? was because there was no evidence he had engaged in insider trading.
20. The Carlyle Group is not a Bush playground. Many Bush opponents are investors, including George Soros.
21. The Bush administration dealt Carlyle a huge financial blow by canceling the Crusader, one of the few weapons
cancellations in the Bush administration.
22. The bin Ladens dropped out of Carlyle before the stock sale. Of the 1.4 billion that the Saudis invested in companies with Bush connections, the vast majority of the money was invested in Carlyle before George H.W. Bush joined the firm.
23. Craig Unger claims that the Saudis have $860 billion invested in the U.S. The figure appears in his book House of Bush, House of Saud, but neither of Unger?s cited sources support such a large figure.
24. Moore claims that the Saudis ?own 7% of America.? But even if you believe Unger?s fictitious $860 billion figure, the Saudis own only about 7% of total foreign investment in America, which is over 10 trillion dollars. Only if all of America were owned by foreigners could Moore?s claim be correct.
25. The Saudi embassy does not receive special protection. It is not the only foreign embassy which is guarded by the U.S. Secret Service. An international treaty signed by the U.S. requires the U.S. to protect any embassy which asks for protection.
26. Moore?s insinuation that Bush runs U.S. foreign policy according to Saudi instructions is contradicted by the Afghanistan invasion (which toppled the Taliban regime which the Saudis strongly supported), and by the Iraq War (which the Saudis opposed, in part because Iraqi oil will compete with Saudi oil).
27. As Governor of Texas, Bush never met with Taliban representatives.
28. The proposed Unocal pipeline was supported by the Clinton administration, but Unocal abandoned the pipeline idea in 1998.
29. The new Afghani government has signed a protocol to build a pipeline, but it is an entirely different pipeline, in a location hundreds of miles distant from the Unocal proposal.
30. Construction has not begun on the new pipeline. Although Moore claims that ?Enron stood to benefit? from the pipeline, Enron has never had any participation in either pipeline.
31. The Bush administration did not ?welcome? Taliban diplomats in March 2001, but instead condemned them for failing to hand over Osama bin Laden.
32. Despite Moore?s pose in the movie, he opposed the Afghanistan War, and?in December 2002?claimed that Osama bin Laden might be innocent.
33. In claiming that the Afghanistan invasion was a mere ruse to protect the Saudis, Moore omits the results of liberation in Afghanistan: destruction of al Qaeda training camps, the creation of free elections, more freedom for women, and the homecoming of 1.5 million refugees from the Taliban.
34. The various quotes about Bush administration cooperation with the September 11 Commission have been re-sequenced to create a false impression. In July 2003, Chairman Kean complained about lack of cooperation. In February 2004, Bush said that the White House had given extraordinary cooperation. Kean agreed, and praised the White House for providing ?unprecedented? access.


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