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-   -   Since I wrote the Klixxx article I can actually post it here for you now (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=305564)

Rick Latona 06-01-2004 05:59 PM

Since I wrote the Klixxx article I can actually post it here for you now
 
Since I wrote the Klixxx article I can actually post it here for you now. Clearly the other thread got the point lost.

Anyway, here was the article:

Chargebacks

You don?t have to be unethical to have chargeback problems. Sparse content and aggressive marketing methods are only two potential causes of chargebacks. The bottom line is that any program doing significant joins has to deal with the issue. There are a number of factors that can cause you to go above the 1% chargeback ratio that Visa allows, including natural attrition, your members? area, webmaster fraud, support issues, cross sells and your price point to consumers. If you want to stay below the 1% mark, you?ll need to deal with every one of these points.

The other day I was reading the Terms and Conditions for processing through Jettis and I noticed a clause in their contract that required you to phase out processing over a 6 month period if you wanted to leave them as a client. This is because people rarely get notified each month when they are billed. It is quite common for a customer to notice that they have been getting billed recurrently only after some time has passed. If you don?t send new charges through the same IPSP account over and over, natural attrition of your customer base will put you over 1%. I know of one very high volume and well-known sponsor program that processed through Jettis for years and then switched to Epoch for various reasons. Recently that sponsor has had to start sending charges through Jettis again because they went over 1% by not sending them new joins. Now they will need to go back to Epoch for new joins because they will have the same problem there. What?s the solution? Get your own merchant account and run all of your primary processing through it or rotate two separate IPSPs so you don?t put all your eggs in one basket.

Technically, customers aren?t supposed to chargeback fees just because they don?t like the product. However, in reality this happens all the time. Having a great members? area will not only decrease chargebacks but will also increase your total billing! At CJ Bucks, we do everything we can to keep the customers happy including separate members? areas for each of our sites and tons of well-organized content.

This may come as a surprise, but there are many fraudulent webmasters! All program owners regularly cancel webmasters for pushing through fraudulent transactions. The frauds want to get a check from you before you?ve noticed so the key is to notice and catch them before you send the check. Most IPSPs will inform you of fraudulent webmasters, but you can always catch more than the processor by taking ownership of the issue yourself. Some methods are easier than others. One easy way to catch the crook is to look at their conversion ratios. If you have a webmaster pushing through joins at 1:3, the odds are that they are frauding you. If you show me a traffic source that converts at 1 in 3 I?ll buy all of the traffic for sale because such a thing just doesn?t exist. A much more difficult technique would be to build a system that checks to see if members login to their members? areas. If a webmaster sends five joins to you and none of those joins login to the sites, odds are that its fraudulent. The bottom line is that you must have a system in place to protect yourself against fraud. At CJ Bucks, we have many, so most crooks look for an easier target.

Your support systems can make a huge difference. When a pay site member needs support or chooses to cancel, they have two choices: go to your site and look for support channels or go to the emails they received when they joined the program. Those emails most likely came from your IPSP and contain email addresses, links and/or phone numbers. Your IPSP couldn?t possibly answer questions about your members? area or the encoding of your videos. I know of at least three sponsors who have asked their IPSP to change the information on those emails so that all requests funnel through the sponsor who actually sold the membership.

Cross sells are often blamed for the chargeback problem. Again, it?s how you use the cross sells that counts most. Some programs bury in their terms and conditions that the end user is joining more than one site while others use check boxes or even pre-checked boxes on their join page. Clearly there is a middle ground here -- your job, as a program owner, is to find that balance. I prefer the pre-checked boxes, but I leave the recurring monthly price for those memberships at 24.95 or less. I think that hooking someone up with two separate 39.95 a month memberships is just a bit too much, and, besides, the CEO of a major IPSP assures me that many banks won?t chargeback charges of less than 25 dollars.

Chargebacks are obviously an important concern of everyone involved in a sponsor program, but the issue isn?t as cut-and-dry as simply offering better content. Of course, when selling an intangible product, it never hurts to deliver above and beyond your customers? expectations, but unless you efficiently shore-up all points of potential chargeback leakage, you still might find yourself running aground with the 1% policy.


--------------------

Note: I wrote this months ago and the magazine just got mailed. I've learned a lot myself since this writing and will be posting more thoughts in a minute.

emmanuelle 06-01-2004 06:01 PM

Thanks for posting that :thumbsup

Mr Cheeks 06-01-2004 06:03 PM

very nice read. good job!

tbabe 06-01-2004 06:05 PM

Great article :thumbsup

tucker 06-01-2004 06:06 PM

Well put! That is a well thought out, timely and informative article. Rick, nice job!!

What have you found is the balance between membership price and cross sell prices that work to maximize the join without exposure?

chemicaleyes 06-01-2004 06:08 PM

Good read, thx for posting it. :glugglug

Rick Latona 06-01-2004 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tucker
Well put! That is a well thought out, timely and informative article. Rick, nice job!!

What have you found is the balance between membership price and cross sell prices that work to maximize the join without exposure?

Excellent question. Clearly there are many people on the board that would be better qualified to answer that question. As for us, we are now rotating join pages and agressivley pricing some but not all click throughs. A wise man once told me that his goal is to do 1,000,000 chargebacks a month because that meant he had to do 99 millioin and 1 that don't. The real art is to stay as close to 1% as possible without going over it, as you so aluded.

brand0n 06-01-2004 06:09 PM

great read

rick, i need to shoot down there and talk to you in a week or so about something else signup4cash has in mind.

whens a good time to come down and where is a nice place to stay?

slapass 06-01-2004 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rick Latona
, besides, the CEO of a major IPSP assures me that many banks won?t chargeback charges of less than 25 dollars.


IS THIS TRUE???? major news if it that works.

Jman 06-01-2004 06:10 PM

I like this article, especially the part about sponsor changing the info in the welcome email... " I know of at least three sponsors who have asked their IPSP to change the information on those emails so that all requests funnel through the sponsor who actually sold the membership."

You and I had a long conversation about this in Curacao and you know my views and ideas on this issue.

BTW I still think my idea would do great in this industry and would love to be able to run a test with you anytime you would be willing to... don't need much to run a test you know :winkwink:

Rick Latona 06-01-2004 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by slapass
IS THIS TRUE???? major news if it that works.
I trust the source but I'm not the source.

detoxed 06-01-2004 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by slapass
IS THIS TRUE???? major news if it that works.
There are many chargebacks for $1. Maybe SOME banks dont, but most do.

Phoenix 06-01-2004 06:14 PM

nice stufff Rick,

comprehensive overview on the issue, lots of nice points in there:thumbsup

Peaches 06-01-2004 06:15 PM

Thanks, Rick - now I don't have to look at nekkid wimmins to read it :)

Awesome article!! :thumbsup

WiredGuy 06-01-2004 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rick Latona
I think that hooking someone up with two separate 39.95 a month memberships is just a bit too much, and, besides, the CEO of a major IPSP assures me that many banks won?t chargeback charges of less than 25 dollars.
Is this really true that a lot of banks won't issue CB's for < $25 charges? If so, what's to stop a paysite from changing their model bi-monthly recurring at $20 each versus one $40 charge? Just throwing in some ideas...

WG

Rick Latona 06-01-2004 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WiredGuy
Is this really true that a lot of banks won't issue CB's for < $25 charges? If so, what's to stop a paysite from changing their model bi-monthly recurring at $20 each versus one $40 charge? Just throwing in some ideas...

WG

That seems to be the hot point of the article. I've emailed the original source asking for him to post. I'll let you guys know.

SleazyDream 06-01-2004 10:10 PM

:thumbsup

dougeetx 06-01-2004 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tbabe
Great article :thumbsup

:thumbsup

mary34d 06-01-2004 10:15 PM

rick u rock

Pornkings 06-01-2004 10:21 PM

we will be coming out with a new price point no one has tried, we will launch it with the new pornkings this month. I will keep you posted. had to get Paycom to agree:winkwink:

Always need to think one step ahead our Porn4abuck keeps us out of any chargeback issue's. Knock on wood

stay tuned for new and exciting things


Good read Rick

Strife 06-01-2004 10:22 PM

great read :thumbsup

makefuckingmoney 06-01-2004 10:24 PM

I have a bunch of 8.00 cb's

im sure quite a few people do.

Also, jettis isnt the only one that wants someone to phase out processing if they leave..thats no big secret. Every processor will do that.

pimplink 06-01-2004 10:26 PM

Thanks for posting!

mary34d 06-01-2004 10:26 PM

you never stop amazing me how smart you are.

Muffin 06-01-2004 10:27 PM

Great read Rick......well written, well laid out and lots of food for thought......looks like you inspired a lot of people to rethink their pricing structure and strategy......nice contribution!

EviLGuY 06-01-2004 10:43 PM

There were some good points in that article. I think everyone should read it even if they don't run paysites. :2 cents:

adamneve 06-01-2004 11:07 PM

great article Rick :thumbsup

Drake 06-01-2004 11:12 PM

Excellent read!

Dwreck 06-01-2004 11:24 PM

I must agree a good read!!

Rick is a genuis

:thumbsup

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE 06-01-2004 11:44 PM

I can live with $19.95 a month!
Per member:)

But wooo nelli them webmasters gonna be pinched!

Kiss good buy them 50 dollar payouts!
:1orglaugh

slavdogg 06-01-2004 11:52 PM

good article Rick :thumbsup

FabianC 06-02-2004 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rick Latona
... What?s the solution? Get your own merchant account and run all of your primary processing through it ...
With your own merchant you have the freedom of a little more creativity .. however, be prepared for the "reserve" shakedown from the merchant bank .. any where from 30-50% of your monthly billing. Meaning, if you're billing $100k/month, they'll hold onto 15-20% off the top until you've got $30-50K sitting in the bank which cannot be touched for 10 months .. give or take.

CSI was infamous for saying "oh, congrats, you're growing! In order for us to continue to process for you we're going to hold onto 100% of your deposits until we have $10K. Once we have $10k, we'll release 80% of your net earnings twice a week. We don't care that you have webmasters, bills, etc. to pay, we don't trust you because you're adult. Oh, you've had another account with us for years? Fuck you, we don't care."

Rick Latona 06-02-2004 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by makefuckingmoney
I have a bunch of 8.00 cb's

im sure quite a few people do.

Also, jettis isnt the only one that wants someone to phase out processing if they leave..thats no big secret. Every processor will do that.

He was telling me that "some or many" banks won't initiate a chargeback if all charges related were at 25 dollars or less.

Also, I agree that Jettis isn't the only one. It was just their TOS that got me thinking.

Rick Latona 06-02-2004 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pornkings
we will be coming out with a new price point no one has tried, we will launch it with the new pornkings this month. I will keep you posted. had to get Paycom to agree:winkwink:

Always need to think one step ahead our Porn4abuck keeps us out of any chargeback issue's. Knock on wood

stay tuned for new and exciting things


Good read Rick

No shit? You've got my curiosity running for sure.

Jace 06-02-2004 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by brand0n
great read

rick, i need to shoot down there and talk to you in a week or so about something else signup4cash has in mind.

whens a good time to come down and where is a nice place to stay?

i hear the atlanta jail has nice accomodations....haha

seriously, if you wanna be right by their office stay at the Omni, it is right next door...well, almost

hit me up when you come though, stay an extra day and we will woop it up again, i promise no jail this time....

Rick Latona 06-02-2004 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by brand0n
great read

rick, i need to shoot down there and talk to you in a week or so about something else signup4cash has in mind.

whens a good time to come down and where is a nice place to stay?

Just let me know when you are coming. I'll be here throughout most of the month.

Makingcoin 06-02-2004 06:33 AM

Great read. thanks :thumbsup

m00d 06-02-2004 06:40 AM

:thumbsup

brand0n 06-02-2004 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JaceXXX
i hear the atlanta jail has nice accomodations....haha

seriously, if you wanna be right by their office stay at the Omni, it is right next door...well, almost

hit me up when you come though, stay an extra day and we will woop it up again, i promise no jail this time....

thanks jace, and yea man u know ill defently get up with ya once im down. :thumbsup

scoreman 06-02-2004 06:57 AM

Chargebacks occur at FDR (First Data) for less than $25.00. First data currently does the large bulk of all IPSP business, although that is set to change here very soon. CCBill does not run their charges through FDR but they too have chargebacks for less than $25.00

Upselling, whenever there will be multiple charges from the same source on a credit card gets extra scrutiny from the consumer and the banks. Be it cross-selling, or upselling within the member's area the level of chargebacks is always higher with these products. You have to have a strong product behind them backed with good customer service or you will quickly butt up againt 1% if you push any real volume.

I have been told in the past by a few different folks high up in the IPSP chain of command that chargebacks increase incrementally by the raise in pricing point. With the exact same product you will see higher chargebacks the higher your price point. Many IPSPs will not take charges over $50 as they have found that consumers "see" those charges alot more than usual and the visibility results in significantly higher chargebacks.

That was a very informative read Rick, too bad instead of reading it yesterday we instead had to take that 5 hr detour through mudfields to get here. GFY needs it drama I guess.


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