You are all honorary Americans
 

Many non-Americans follow US politics as closely as most of my fellow citizens do. You comment on her changes as if you were a citizen yourself. You complain about every policy that goes against your world-view just as the Gauls and the Spaniards complained about the Romans. You should view yourself as honorary citizens. What a great honor ;-O . Hell, how about a little vassalage in the name of Empire?

who said i was a American ?

Cool, how about some welfare then?

So do I get a vote?

Yes.

Yes, wouldn't mind some welfare.

How about some of those food stamps I've been hearing so much about! :1orglaugh

Joe,

No surprise. Less than 15 minutes after being awarded honorary American status, you are already asking for a hand-out. ;-) ;-)

I suggest the welfare to work program. You are probably already familiar with them as you have similar programs where you are from.

As long as you pay your taxes.

Can't I cheat those?

I don't know. Can you?

But if I win the lottery, sorry guys but I'm all Canadian. Win the lottery in Canada and the government does NOT come and grab 40+% of the take like they do in the good ol' U.S. of A.

ha ha


Vive la Canukistan!

Your government gives handouts to some of your primary industries in the form of subsidies. A fuckload more than would go to people out of work.

My dealer is on the dole and provides an important public service.

I believe he deserves a government subsidy!

Haha, that's good. And so true :thumbsup

Yeah you get the same as everyone else. A bowl of soup and a swift kick in the butt :winkwink:

That's right. This is the land of the rich and powerful. The rules of the game are rigged but written for all to see. It is only the stupid people that get screwed, the same people that can't find Iraq on a map.

I'd much rather live in a nation that rewards wealth and corporations and makes it easy to get there than one that does not.

Joe,

The system is so fucking fair that it's insane. I grew up as a poor kid in a family that received free and reduced lunches at school. No one told me I could go to school or how to make my way in the world.

Despite that handicap I worked for and received a world-class education and have made 6 or 7 figures every year since 1996 except one. I didn't need anything from anyone. I still don't.

You know what Colin, I live in the third largest city in Australia - Brisbane. The population here is around 1.5 million people. It's a large, growing city. I have lived here for 33 years. In that time, I have NEVER seen a person begging for change here. Not once. We have buskers, sure, but Australia is and always has been a nation that has been generous to the disadvantaged. Every once and a while we get conservatives in who cut social programs but by and large Australia has a history of being a compassionate society and generous in terms of welfare.

On the other hand, I have been confronted with more dire poverty in just a few weeks in your country than I have been my whole life here in Australia. From the subway car roamers in New York City to the guy begging for frankfurters in a park near Stuart, Florida where I was having a BBQ with friends. Then in L.A. where I was in transit for one night, there was that old black guy who begged me to buy him a taco at Taco Bell when I was about to order. And then when I was in Vegas I walked one block away from Fremont Street, Downtown where I was staying at the Fitzgerald Casino. Straight away a black guy came up to me and said: Hey man, what you want - weed, crack or pussy?"

These things don't really happen here in Australia. We have homeless people, yes and I've seen the odd person sleeping on park benches. I've have given cigarettes to drunken aborigines who asked me for them as well but that is just about as bad as it gets.

I'm glad you make a lot of money and that you did it all on your own and that you feel like the system encouraged that. That's great. But I prefer the social ethic here in Australia. I pay more taxes, but it's easier on the eye down here and I like it like that. This, to me, is fair.

However, to be fair, I have heard that you get beggars in Sydney now, down Oxford Street way. If so, and I haven't been there for a while myself then it's simply the result of about seven years of conservative rule here in Australia at the federal level. If it's true I hope things change when we kick that bastard Howard out of office. I hope its not a long term trend.

Joe,

There are tens of thousands of homeless people in Australia. Most estimates put the figure in the hundreds of thousands so what exactly does that mean that you haven't seen even one begging for change?

I'm very surprised that you saw a homeless person in Stuart. I used to visit Stuart quite frequently as I live in South Florida and my ex's parents lived there. It's pretty much a sleepy retirement community. Are your grandparents there or something? I never saw a homeless person there in my dozen or so trips.

Ultimately, you are asking the question of what kind of society you want to live in. I've travelled to close to a dozen countries now (not a lot by some standards). What I've seen is variation but I've never seen anything which I might consider superior (except maybe Monaco ;-) )

I prefer the social ethic here to anything I've ever seen elsewhere (again, except maybe Monaco). Again, the question is what kind of society do I want to live in? I can live anywhere in the world. I choose here.

Hundreds of thousands? Bullshit, pure and simple. Back it up.

What it means is that the beggars aren't there. Any other Brisbane residents care to back me up here? Have any of you seen people with styrofoam cups begging for change or someone wearing a sign saying "Will work for food" in the city, ever. And no I don't mean someone after change for the parking meter.

And Colin, I've been to the USA. I've spent six months there in total and lived with real families. I've seen it first hand. You come to Australia and see for yourself. Then your opinion will be an educated one.

And for the record, I've travelled to 25 countries and spent one year of the last six years backpacking around the world.

Colin, I bet you were the kid who would kick over ant piles, then pour gas on it, then light it up....

OR did you use a magnifying glass?

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Magnifying glass.

Look around yourself. Take you a few minutes. For example:

"Supported Accommodation Assistance Program (SAAP) figures indicate that in 1996-1997 an estimated 147,000 people used homeless services across Australia, but a further 304,000 requests for support and accommodation were not met. By 1998-99, the number assisted had risen to 163,000, an average of 16,500 a day."

What exactly is it that you want me to be educated about?

Joe,

You have a very unhealthy obsession regarding America. Why? Why does she bother you so? Why do her policies get under your skin? Why America and not Russia, China, Canada, or Italy?

Why are you concerned with America's debt but not Japan's, France's, Canada's or Germany's though those nations have similar debt relative to the scale of their economies?

You've never seen me obsessing about Australia, Germany, Holland, France, or any other such place. What are you so afraid of?

Hmmmm... I just did. Very interesting. I'm not sure where your quote is from because you didn't include a link. However I found these:

U.S. Homelessness Australian homelessness

These Australian figures are more recent and our homeless rate is about half of yours. I have never denied that we have homeless people. Of course we do. Show me a country that doesn't. What we don't have is people begging for money on the streets. We don't in Brisbane anyway (not sure about Sydney)and as I said it's the third largest city in the country.

Rome felt...

Yup. Consider that the city of Rome was founded about 700 BC and the Empire was founded around the time of the beginning of the first millenium CE. Rome proper lasted for about another five centuries and The Eastern Roman Empire continued on as the Byzantine Empire until the fifteenth century.

What's your point? The US won't last forever? No doubt.

Yeah but today conquests don't take years to achieve. We're not centurions anymore. Today's wars make the face of the world change faster than ever.

I would venture to say the opposite is true or more accurately that things haven't changed all that much.

In a four year period Julius Caesar defeated Gaul and invaded England. How about the conquests of Alexander, Genghis Kahn. or the Muslim Caliphates? The map of Europe had been subject to nearly continual change as the result of wars.

We live in a time when there is a paradigm that the borders of today should be the borders of tomorrow. This idea was championed by Woodrow Wilson.

There have been many wars in the post World War II era that were grinding wars of attrition and not quick conquests. The US in Vietnam and the Soviet Union in Afghanistan are excellent examples.

Lol Colin...u trying to incite a riot?

The Sands is giving odds. You want in? ;-)

lol..i wouldn't bet against u :)

This whole discussion can be summed up in two pictures.


America's Dick
http://www.subvisionfilms.com/logos/gig3.jpg


Everyone else's dick
http://www.xxxwebcam.net/images/smalldick.jpg

Penis envy pure and simple :thumbsup

Leave me out of this honor!

I don't wish to be associated with a rogue bananna republic - but thanks for the offer! :glugglug

I gots some free govament cheeze for yazzz :)

:thumbsup :thumbsup

Gotta back Joe up here. I live in Brisbane and sure we have a few homeless, but they never go hungry with all the shelters and organisations helping them. Never seen anyone beg for change or beg for anything.

Why is the US obsessing about countries you/they do not agree with? You say you don't like the leadership of another country, so you chose to destroy the leadership?

Imagine If China said the same about USA.

What makes that logic 'better' or 'worse'?

Some offers you can't refuse.

I don't think you even know what a banana republic is. ;-)

China has said the same about the US. Remember VietNam and Korea?

There's nothing wrong with your logic. I agree with you. The US has obsessed about Iraq and Joe has obsessed about the US. Neither obsession is better.

Just so there's no confusion, I love America. I think it is a great country. My wife is American, my daughter has dual nationality. And being British theres a lot of history between the countries.

And the US does have a pretty good welfare system, it's called 'The Army'. I don't have any problem with that. I do wish they would spend more money on education (decision was taken for our daughter to be educated in UK, joint nationality was so she'd have a choice when she grew up). And I wish your healthcare system was just a little more civilised (you have enough money for christs sake), other than that, it's just a great place to live. You can't force people to work or educate themselves, all you do is give them opportunities. The US has loads of opportunities.

I only have a problem with those neo-conservatives you have just elected. I don't have a problem with one or two, or a few of them. Balance is good. But you have elected a whole raft of the bastards. There is much pain in future for your country unless they go quicker rather than sooner. History proves that, their motives are to selfish, too extreme.

And, yes, I know I don't have quite the 'I'm alright Jack' fuck the rest attitude that 'Colin' and same others have, but I'm halfway there :)