The rules of engagement for todays Adult Industry.
 

Do you have to scam people, and steal, and lie, and cheat, to be succesful, or respected in the Adult industry now days?

Like Serge Oprano, or are their still some good straight shooters, that are looking to mantain their success and respect, Here too?

Yeah. Everyone in the industry is a scammer. Moron.

nah you can do it honestly :)

What amazes me is how many people in this industry make deals
with no recourse. Contracts (real written ones, not verbal or
electronic) are the basis for good business. If everyone required
a signed contract for transactions over $100, the face of business
in this industry would change. You would know who you were
dealing with (a real name and physical address), and debts
would be realistically collectible. No more anonymous bulletin
board phantoms who run on a good reputation, until they
dissappear with everyones money.

I've learned over the years that people who aren't willing to
sign a contract can't be trusted anyway. They are entities that
should be avoided in the first place.

I definetly want to meet you...I am watching cause I got some good shit to discuss with the right people at the show in florida...
I got on these boards early to do my homework...and yes I am taking notes for all that care...

In all these years on the web I've found adult webmasters more honorable in business with me than the film/tv/comic book/news media businesses that are SUPPOSED to be honest!

I shitteth you notteth.

I give mainstream businesses 30% honor rating compared to a 95% honor rating for adult webaster businesses!

The ONLY problem with adult webmastering is the same people I wouldn't deal with in business are the same dumbasses who run blindlink/redirect/dialer/pop-up bullshit.

And believe you me, I know what's coming down the pike, you had BETTER be honest and them that haven't, I would change my ways yesterday.

I've found very few crooked people that I have delt with in the industry. Sure, I have been scammed and the scammer(s) in question continue to scam people, but I was lucky and caught on early and walked away...

There are honest, straight shooters left in the industry for sure. I also think there's a ton of honest people who just don't have two bits of common business sense to rub together that don't realize what they're doing is wrong/unethical/dishonest. People for the most part just aren't that bright.

:2 cents:

i think that the problem is more that they disappear and come back with a differant company and image, and everyone gives them money again.

Of course there are honest webmasters. I think most of the people I have personally dealt with are extremely ethical and professional and they will move forward.

The people who are scamming are eventually going to go down, one way or another, whether it be by lack of respect or the feds, the day is coming.

There was a time when you could play cowboy in the wild wild west, but those days are long gone...ended round about 1999.

If someone doesn't have their "ducks in a row" these days then they are setting themselves up for some really bad times in my opinion.

-joe

Deal clueless, this business was build on 100k handshakes.
Just because you newbie morons can't conduct proper business like that today doesn't mean its not still being done by the movers and shakers of this business.:winkwink:

Things change Mr. Clicks

Are you Serge's right hand scam man?

Are you taking over lil2rich4u's job?

No they don't. The fools just become more numerous

heh, another clueless here today gone and forgotten tomorrow newbie.

Mr Clicks,

I agree that the fools become more numerous...no doubt about it.
That's the same in any industry. Inexperienced people are
usually at the mercy of experienced predators.

And I agree that there will always be inexperienced newbies
who can be easily fleeced out of a few thousand dollars.

But do you really think that substantial agreements are made
without a contract? Not Likely...

You make it sound like this entire industry operates on a
handshake. That's just crazy. Do you think that adult.com
promotes playboy without a written contract? If so, I have a
super proposition for lensman...
make us both a fortune.:1orglaugh

Of course there will always be people silly enough to risk
a few thousand pocket change without written protection...
they may get burned or not...they're depending on luck.

Please give me an example of a deal in the adult industry
of substantial value ($50,000+) that was consumated
and carried out to both parties satisfaction without a written
contract. But make it a deal that took place in the last year
or so...These kind of deals made fast and loose in the mid to
late 90s are not a valid example. No one really does business
that way anymore where substantial value is concerned.

You seem to have alot of experience in this area. I would
be interested to know how a deal like this plays out.

GFY is an interesting (and sometimes educational) board,
but don't confuse a low post count with inexperience or lack
of assets. Book/Cover...you know...

My experience has been the same as GregB. I used to be part of the corporate world and left because of bullshit and deceit. Take a look at the major corporates that have been in the press the last few years and you will see what I mean.

In all my dealings with my fellow adult webmasters I have only found two who were scammers.

There was a post about contracts last night. Read it.

When's the party? :glugglug

Hey ... Don't get me wrong, I think Serge is a great guy, and I respect his opinions as a friend ...

But I am curious why you've got your nose burried so far up his ass it's not even funny :eek7

I have seen more than a couple threads now where you are singing his praises ... what's the deal ? Just curious ..

Yes.

in the REAL world it's actually the EXACT opposite of that statement.

if you want to start dealing in some REAL money you'll need to come to terms with that.

True words... But this was/is another level of this Industry anyway.



Cheers,

JOKER

The reality of this of course is that some people will not send you a signed paper, and as a contractor you stand to lose a deal often if you insist on being 'strict' with these kinds of deals.

handshake deals are fine amoung friends but i don't think it's sensible in any other situation online or offline.

if you're not dealing with a friend, it's just business and anyone not out to rip you off will want it down in writing anyway.

unless you're doing dodgy / illegal deals under the table i don't see the problem with doing some paperwork.

bob, how many *substantial* agreements have you made in this business?
do you have any idea how many *I* have made?
You're out of your depth with your "not likely" comment.

No, that's how business among operators is done. You think its crazy because you're not part of the operators who can do this.

Nope, they don't but only because *playboy* is corporate. I could do the same amount of business with lensman tomorrow on a handshake.
um, right.

I guess we're talking about newbies here.

I can think of three deals we currently have in place, all worth at least 6 figures done on a handshake or less.

You speak with such confidence and surity. Please tell us what deals of $50k plus you've EVER done in this biz.

I pick up the phone or hit someone up on icq. I usually start with "I reached into the hat today and pulled out your name. Here's how I'm going to make you money"
and in about 5 minutes we have a deal and the tech issues are quickly worked out. Shortly thereafter, the money flows.

I never do. I judge a man's knowledge by what he says and what he doesn't say.
You may know things about business in general but very little about this business. :winkwink:

You are a better man than I. If things aren't written out in a specific manner and approved by my lawyers there's no way I move forward.

In this day and age when people take McDonalds to court because a cheeseburger makes their kid fat...anyone that doesn't have a written contract is asking for trouble.

just my :2 cents: :2 cents: :2 cents:

I dont think a contract is necessary but a real name, phone number and address is a must. To do a serious amount of business with someone and only know their GFY nick you are asking to be fucked hard.

If everyone is a scammer and that is the only way to make money in this business.... Then I am FUCKED!!!

I have actually met some GREAT people in the business, they have been very helpful. (You know who you are)....

I strongly believe that dishonesty will come back to bite you on the ass... better to do it right.

I pick up the phone or hit someone up on icq. I usually start with "I reached into the hat today and pulled out your name. Here's how I'm going to make you money"
and in about 5 minutes we have a deal and the tech issues are quickly worked out. Shortly thereafter, the money flows.



Pick me , Pick me :)

we've been old school operators for quite a while. :thumbsup

Tony404, I'm not sure I have your icq let alone have your name in the hat. :winkwink:

It depends on the depth of the partnership. If on the one hand you're talking about buying content on a regular basis from a photographer..cool...you can pull the plug on the cash at any time if the deal screws up.

I mean...i do business like that all the time...but serious cash? 10 grand and over?

Like for instance if you are talking about a major partnership...like running a paysite program...lol...anyone would be foolish to not get their shit together in a contract.

If it's all not written out with all the specific info and signed by both parties...man...I dont even want to go there.

How many times have you had a conversation with someone who got the point as being something completely different than what you were trying to get across?

My ICQ is 52416841 and my name is Tony404. If you like I can Fedex you a slip of paper with my name on it to add to the hat :)

I agree with what's been said - a surprisingly low amount of people ever ask about contracts or NDA's for that matter. Personally, I don't think it's always practical to be doing it, but for larger projects I find it hard to grasp that a smart minded business man wouldn't take the trouble to write out a quick contract for it.

Exceptions are there though. Some people have been in this biz for a long long time and they can be relied on 100%. That's just the way it is

I have said it b4, and will say it again

Our industry is no different to any other industry when it comes to scammers and thiefs

The only real difference is that we have these boards to publically out the fuckers, and all it takes is a few simple searches to find out who is who, and who you can trust. THIS IS THE REASON YOU MAY BE THINKING WE ARE IN INDUSTRY FULL OF SCAMMERS!

So far I have found an abundant quantity of really great people who I will do business with time and time again.

And I have equally found a huge supply of assholes who try at all costs to rip me off, and its up to me to make sur that doesnt happen.

Anyways, I have had my splurt for the day.....

I look forward to meeting all the wonderful and honest webmasters in Florida next month

Dan

Dude still doing business that way but the newbs are young and restless and definately see a short dollar instead of the long money

12clicks,

I appreciate your response. Your arguments sound valid, and I
don't dispute them. And you are right...I haven't made any
substantial agreements in this industry. Still, how someone could
make 6 figure deals without being "Corporate" is beyond my
imagination.
To do deals like that without a corporate identity and a good
accountant must be a tax nightmare.


My experiences have been very different. There would have
been countless times I would have been burned if I had not had
a contract to enforce performance.

BLAH BLAH BLAH FUCK YOU LOSERS

Thank you sir...may I have another?












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I never said there was no corporate identity.

I only do deals where I can lose money with people that I trust.
If you can't trust who you deal with, a contract WILL NOT save you in this business.