I Want To Advertise
 

We're talking media buys and advertising on the best sites. So what sites have the most traffic? Where should I advertise my paysites?

Recommendations and experiences please. :)

Review sites

Ping me. We have advertising on Mrskin, Fleshbot.com and Taxidrivermovie.com, Desktop and mobile.

80% English speaking countries.

Looking forward to speaking with you. :thumbsup

Trying you on ICQ now. :)

why go for the biggest? there has to be mid-sized gems out there if you dig.

We have some great traffic on EroAdvertising. You can hit me up at EroAdvertisingNicole (Skype) or [email protected] to learn more.

VERY true. :)

Please list some mid-sized gems, too. :thumbsup

PM sent...

Thanks, responded. :)

Any others? How about the major tubes and Next To Video (NTV) ads? Which ad network has the top tubes?

You are looking at funding piracy sites there. :2 cents:

Actually, that is a very tricky issue indeed. There's no way I would ever advertise on a torrent site or something but what about tubes? They do have the most traffic....

But my thinking is if I am willing to have the tubes as affiliates, and work with them via their Content Partner Programs, then advertising on them is not much of a stretch.

Must top tubes are (at best - were) pirates.

How about the hun?

Already on The Hun. :thumbsup

1) Porn sites are notoriously hard to convert when compared to other offers to the same traffic
2) traffic prices are driven by products which convert infinitely better & have a similar or greater average user value
3) it is simply impossible to advertise a porn site in its traditional form and compete with others, pua offers, dating or pills

You'll have to be creative
You'll have to step WAY outside the box
You'll likely have to do a lot of things you don't want to do as you'll be competing with people doing those things, who are driving traffic costs
Start with studying those few that do it and make it work and decide if you're willing to head down that same path

It should also be noted that though certain traffic types convert with submissions, that's nothing at all like having to pay for every single impression or click. If you had to spend .05 CPM cost on the Hun for that gallery link that was accepted, you'd be losing over a grand a day.

VERY excellent points, thank you. There are indeed very few paysites that advertise on other porn sites but they do exist. And since my metrics are more reasonable in terms of recouping investment it's worth a shot. :)

Or would you suggest another way to get 50K daily hits to my paysites? :)

Here's the deal.... Yes, some sites "do advertise" - that's just a fact that tells us nothing. The question to be asked is "how are they making as much money as dating, pua etc and why are they succeeding where everyone fails?". That means it is necessary to fully dialect their entire process, their sites, their up sells, cross sells, mailing etc etc etc etc and even then, they can be doing a lot that is not readily obvious... and most importantly, you can't calculate accurately how/when they are earning that money back.

If I had a network of sites and ther content, I'd continue looking for traffic generation methods and owning /growing/retaining my own traffic.

We have a few advertisers doing well on their (very) niche paysites with our plug program. Hit me up at [email protected] or Skype:ravo.fpctraffic if you'd like to discuss options.

And yeah, every asshole under the sun is going to tell you they have great traffic for sale. They don't own sites, they aren't affiliates, they don't buy and convert traffic, they know nothing about you..... but somehow have EXACTLY what you need. Crazy how that works. So nice that they have your best interests in mind.

Love me some Squealer!!

LOL Yeah man I get that - tho I also understand the reps are just doing their jobs. :) But more to your points about ROI:

I only use other paysites as a very basic model, meaning I start from there. I look at the other paysites do ad buys and look at their join price, their tour and their ad. Anything else (upsells, mailings, etc) are different revenue streams and not related directly to the ad buy. (And yes I understand there's some cross-over, given the 'awareness' the ad may bring.) So I research, I look, I take out my calculator (knowing the going rates for such ads) and figure out the volume these other paysites must be doing to BREAK EVEN (let alone be profitable) and the volume is staggering!

So, scaling down, I do see some profit there for my sites. BUT we're still talking massive numbers to be profitable (relatively) so that's the only real stumbling block for me right now.

I would do ad buys for cams, dating, etc but then I'd really be starting from scratch with zero knowledge. :)

EroAdvertising.com

Spot on.

aside from the manwin paysites which don't matter the only paysites you see that do media buys on the big tubes at least aim at the audience that gets off on seeing very young looking petite teenagers stretched by large cocks. you don't have to be freud to figure out who that crowd is.

Nicole on the job :thumbsup

A very, very good point.
Many of the NTV ads are highly disturbing.

i can get u huge traffic from facebook

It's absolutely related as the TOTAL average value per join is what is driving ad rates. You are looking at pay sites as an example (most are companies doing the buys, not affiliates) which are likely not making their money back until after a long period of time. That's why you have to understand every single revenue opportunity they run that user through and what the final number is. They might be willing to spend $100 a join. You might not be able to spend more than $80. They might be then still making another 80$ from that join where you make nothing.

Another thing is testing/conversions and tracking. You're going to need to build front ends and sales funnels like those which are successful. You won't be able to just throw your tours as is out there and expect conversions to work. It will take a huge amount of tweaking and tuning and then figuring out every opportunity on the backend to keep making more from each join.

A simple test, go to exoclick, buy a placement on xhamster and pay .05/click and see if you can get a join for less than $400-500. A sincerely don't think it will happen. There is a solid, time proven reason media buyers don't promote adult sites.

Ad rates are primarily determined by the buys of the companies which own the sites as they make the most per join and can pay the most per join (buys). The only way an affiliate succeeds is by having great quality leads, finding niches and so on. A dating company might spend 10.00 per DOI lead and have mediocre quality or bad quality leads. I get a similar amount because mine are typically better quality. But to the point, it is the total average value per member to a dating company which determines the payouts on leads and ad rates. The same applies to adult sites. You can't pay per lead what crak is, if you don't understand what each lead is worth to them and how they are making that money and if you don't have some way of earning a similar amount per join. Most traffic is going to those who pay more for it. You can bid less on any system but won't get much volume and usually not anything worth dealing with or that will yield enough data to work with

BTW... this just occurred to me and its why there is confusion.

If you go to exoclick and try to buy a placement on xhamster for example, you bid the minimum, say .10 CPM and wait.

Nothing happens.

Ad is "live",...

0 impressions... no clicks.

So after a couple days of zero action, you think something is wrong.

Then you increase your bid to .15 CPM. Then you see a few impressions. No clicks.

Eventually you're thinking "oh fuck" because its likely starting to occur to you what the problem is.

Your fears are then confirmed as you bid .20 or .25 etc and a trickle of traffic starts flowing.

You'll realize you won't get any volume of traffic without competing with the top media buyers for it. It's not a question of "advertising", its a question of competing for a premium resource at market rates, determined by the highest earning offers and companies who can generate the highest average value per member/join. And they are seasoned veterans who've spent millions and seen 1000s of you come and go as they were simply forced to out bid you for a week, to make you burn cash and get frustrated and watch you leave, where they then lower their bids and go back to business as usual.

This is what i am getting at with the example of the total value per join. Ultimately if crak is willing to pay 100.00 per join AND they have conversions dialed in (the ads/the landing page, the join process, light code on the pages, CDN, fast servers etc) and are willing to spend 100.00 per join and can then make another 80.00 per join on the back end, you have to be able to earn 150.00 per join or something AND have the same conversions (which won't happen without months of work and testing) to be able to get any traffic.

Now imagine there are 6 of those people, with everything dialed in perfectly after quite a few years of experience and millions spent,... all fighting for the traffic and paying a premium for it and being forced to outbid each other constantly, driving rates up and up,... then a new guy who shows up and says "i want to advertise". That guy is finished before he gets started. He literally walked right into a lions cage with meat tied around his neck.

@TheSquealer: Thanks for the comprehensive responses - they are spot-on. They should be required reading for any new advertiser that thinks $20 of traffic is enough to "test".

daynagsmi on Skype, [email protected] via email. I think you would be interested in Adnium, our CPMv network.

Thanks for the great words of wisdom! I plan on doing exactly what you outlined via XHamster JUST to confirm what you said (which I absolutely believe).

The issue then is turning to building my own sources of in-house traffic with the money I would've spent doing media buys. However, that's much easier said than done. LOL

Also, to add what you outlined, I don't think I would do enough media buys to even be noticed by the top buyers. My goal is not to spend 50k per month (or week) on ad buys. But your points are well taken (thanks again).

:thumbsup:thumbsup

I just hate to see people getting burned.... and you're not a bad guy :)

Media buying is a tough biz. Its a skill like anything else. It takes a long time to figure out, to understand and then to be able to compete and even then, its nothing but ups and downs. As Milton Friedman said in describing the economy "its like a Japanese garden, where apparent simplicity conceals a very sophisticated reality"

Also remember that you have to deal with statistically significant data samples. In other words, buying an ad spot, spending 20.00 and getting a sale might be the worst thing to ever happen to you, as you need enough data to conclusively determine the average cost per sale. The bigger the data sample, the more accurate that number will be. I would personally be looking for say 10+ joins to give a round idea of what the average cost per join would be.

This is actually my intention as well (so I hope I am on the right track). I would never do a test like this for anything less than $500 and probably will double that. It keeps the math simple. LOL

So if a join is (for example) worth around $100 for me (including the rebills) then it would take around 13 joins to break even (factoring in biller's cut). But as you say, it gets extremely tricky. My instincts are telling me it would cost a LOT more than $1000 to get even those 13 joins. If so then it's an easy call. But I also offer higher pricing options so then it becomes do I send traffic to a single price page or keep all four prices?

Testing, testing...and suddenly 10k is spent (easy, probably double that). So, at the end of the day, the question is really: can I spend 20k on something that will throw off traffic long term and be a better ROI?

Again Squealer thanks for your insights. You are indeed a Master of Media Buys! :)

trying media buy without an instructor is like starting to hack without a hacker .

it's very difficult.

Agreed! I will report my results here in a week or so once the test is finished.

Awesome link thanks so much!! :thumbsup

Pure gold.:2 cents::2 cents::2 cents::thumbsup