So, how many more programs will have dump 3rd party and go MERCHANT before
 

the 3rd partry billers wake up and either tell us wtf is happening or heck if they dont wannt tell, how about solving the problem?

If your gonna come in here and pretend you dont know wtf im talking about and try to plug your shitty ass program that has been having the exact same results as evreyone else..dont bother..k?

10-9?

Programs would never go merchant account route because merchant accounts don't allow the high percentage of chargebacks that adult sites deal with.

errrr what?

The majority of bigger programs are going the route. In fact a 1000+ daily join program has just begun beta testing their own merchant account. So Epoch and CCbill just lost another huge client.

"no problems on our end"

I would hardly call a small handful a majority.

Personally, IMO, own merchant account sends a red flag up in the trust factor if that company is also using cutom/inhouse stats/backend as well

In the past year there were 4 HUGE programs(that I know of) that have went the merchant way. We are talking about program with 500-1500 joins per day here. Id say thats a tad more than a handful.

But you know what? Forget it, there are no problems..what was I thinking LOL. Let keep on blaming tube sites and spyware.

We have had our own merchant account for years now, best move we ever made. We still use 3rd party billers in our cascade so it is the best combination imo.

Mark

That does look like the best route these days.

Ray

How does 4 = a tad more than a handful when a handfull = 5.
How does 4 = a tad more than a handful when there's many more HUGE programs. 4 is probably less than 5% of programs that can be considered HUGE

Sure it is a good plan to have merchant account, as long as stats & tracking are with NATS or some trusted backend & not some unknown custom tracking.

Too much room for error/trust factor with an unknown backend, know what I mean.

What is it from the 3rd party biller that you want to be told?

"Love thy neighbor"

... I think

Unless I am missing something, the chargeback levels are set by Visa and Mastercard not the processor. Also, just FYI, EU-based processing allows for a higher CB acceptance level than US-based does :2 cents:

Merchant accounts can be a huge headache as well, at least that's what programs who don't use them tell me :)

Basically it's because they have to do all the accounting in-house, extra costs, bookkeeping, etc.

I have said this a hundred times myself. The biggest issue right now is processing, not Zango etc.

you are retarded

I honestly don't understand why ANYONE would use a third party biller, but I am new to the adult side of the biz, so maybe someone can enlighten me.

Why not have total control over the billing? How many companies have simply folded and left people's mortgages unpaid? What a headache.

I have an established mainstream media company and we already have accountants and office staff, so maybe that's the difference.

It seems like a major program with the kinds of signups above (500-1500 or more daily) wouldn't dare trust a third party except in a cascade chain.

Agree with spacedog on the stats issue. It seems you would HAVE to use a third party stat provider or run the risk of constantly being accused of shady dealing.

Well first if you use a merchant account, you better have two accounts to start with because one could drop at any time. A large one in the Philippines fairly recently dropped all adult so people who were only using them were pretty much screwed until they could get another account to send their rebills through.

Fraud is another aspect, as you really have to monitor it carefully yourself. If you go with 3rd-party they usually alert you on anything their system flags (I know CCBill does for a fact). These days, unless you are on very very large volume, adult merchant accounts can even cost as much or more as 3rd-party billing when you include many charge per transaction fees/decline fees.

Thus I find merchant accounts are not as advantageous as in the past. The best thing to do is mix it up though and have 2+ merchant accounts (one main, one backup), 2+ 3rd-party established billers (main and backups) and
share the volume between them (giving weight to approval rates, fees, etc...) :2 cents:

I disagree. Anyone with any business sense will use whoever increases their bottom line. *thinking* 3rd party stats makes you safe from shady dealings is silly.

I understand your point, maybe I didn't explain myself.

What I should have said was:

If stats are a custom program (all done in-house), wouldn't the occasional disgruntled affiliate be better able to make a case for sponsor fraud? A third party stat provider would be presumed as neutral, and therefore add a layer of confidence?

Or am I wrong?

Good input to have, since we are building our first site in the next couple months.

Appreciate your thoughts.

Merchant account all the way. CCbill, Epoch and the rest just can't match having your own merchant account. Only possible downside is higher charges for chargebacks, but most of them are from affiliate fraud anyway and we keep an eye on it at all times so catch them early.

The "3rd party processor trust" thing is retarded. You would have to be an idiot to think that route will make you safe.

Also on the program side of things ask past clients of globill, websitebilling, probilling, and yes the one everyone thought would *never* die .. Ibill. If you think a 3rd party processor about to go bust will give you anything more than a day warning you have your head in the sand. Its a very risky business to be in.

Lets not forget that id say and make up a stat of about 95% of the adult programs do not do enough volume to qualify for a merchant account.

any more opinions on this?

Adult sites that do have their own merchant account most likely use the authorize only method of processing cards combined with strict IN HOUSE Fraud controls.

If you are taking your processor's word that the transaction is valid, you will be in a world of shit in no time.

When analyzing authorized transactions before submitting them for approval, the biggest rule is go with your gut feeling.

We can do your cc pre-approval background checking and approvals for you. Hit me up for a quote.

Not true and BTW - the program you are promoting in your sig banner, run their merchant acocunt through NETbilling. Many, many programs have their own merchant account.

Mitch

We can place merchant now doing $35k per month.

Mitch

Thank for your business all of these years Mark!
:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup


Mitch

Spacedog, you're still an idiot. I figured you would have learned something (or at least learned to keep your mouth shut) after all these years.

A sponsor can still shave you if they're using an IPSP to process transactions.

You're not allowed to have more chargebacks if you use an IPSP. That ended years ago.

I'll also add that my top money maker uses thier own merchant account for billing, and I've seen shitty numbers lately that correspond with what my friends who use IPSP's are seeing. So going merchant isn't some silver bullet, it just saves you a few points and gives you a little bit more control. :2 cents:

I have been using a merchant account on my site for about 8 yrs, I have low chargebacks because I do not rip off the customer and I allow them to cancel and not hide the cancel link, or worse, not put a cancel link anywhere like I have seen some do.

If your worried about fraud, then dont use programs who tells you things that make you ask yourself "how can they do that and make money"

there is a point, where some programs try to compete so hard that they offer more then they financially can. Remember, the program has to turn a profit or their is no use in running one. If its not turning a good profit... then they may have to do some shady stuff to make that profit.

how do you know how many joins they get a day? The same way so much bad information is flowing around this thread?

So many people know so much... to bad so much of it is not accurate.

who ever told you this must get headaches easily.

use someone like netbilling to handle the secure side and the fraud scrubbing, then all the accounting is done with quickbooks or quicken (business edition).

thats if you have enough sense to incorporate, have a business checking account with business checkcards/credit cards.

it takes me a few minutes to print everything out from quicken, put it in an envelope and mail it off to my accountant at tax time.

could not be any easier.
There is nothing hard or bad about haing a merchant account (if you do it smart and use someone like netbilling). I would never go back to third party processors.

Very good points...

I too am a huge Dolphin's Fan.

You run a very solid program, have great content, and service the customer. Thank you for the plug for us in your other post and for being a valued NETbilling merchant for so many years. We met many years ago in Miami. It would be nice to see you again at a show sometime.

Mitch

Exactly.

cackle..

I've said it before...

1% of the whales make 99% of the sales for any program. So they shave the sheep to pay the whales.

:2 cents:

Why is that funny?

Mitch

She services the customer??

Had I known that I would have joined her site years ago.
*looks for credit card*

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

62% of statistics are worthless, and 43% are made up on the spot.

59% of people know this.